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FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
325
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Posted - 2013.08.16 07:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:area denial weapon is a device used to prevent an adversary from occupying or traver an area of land. The specific method used does not have to be totally effective in preventing passage (and sometimes is not) as long as it is sufficient to severely restrict, slow down, or endanger the opponent. Most area denial weapons pose long-lasting risks to anyone entering the area, specifically to civilians, and thus are often controversial.
Quote:The Mass Driver is a semi-automatic, multi-shot grenade launcher useful as both a breaching tool and an area denial weapon. Firing smart HIND explosive rounds, the weapon is highly effective against all forms of dropsuit and light vehicle, while its lightweight frame and compact design make it easy to wield in both urban and open terrain engagements.
Okay, now as many of you already know there is a lot of concern regarding this weapon. Many of which want it nerfed/removed. I'm writing this in hope that some of you will better understand the gun itself and at least know what you're talking about. So far the biggest suggestion to "balance" this weapon is to add a minimum arming distance in which doesn't let it use its "splash" damage near its user. It sounds fine and dandy until you actually think about the gun usage itself. The MD is designed to keep theeenemy out. Many of you know that, but it's also a breaching weapon. Meaning it's also designed to well breach, adding a minimum arming distance will in fact defeat its purpose. Instead of the enemy backing off, it will now rush the user because they know the gun is useless at a closer range. Also it will be the only gun besides Sniper,laser and forge that's going to be useless in cqc. Also you're forgetting that breaching something is also considered cqc as well. Most of you say the gun doesn't require skill, eh fair enough but read this. It's one of the few guns that elevation, distance and the terrain itself can either make or break its usage. The gun itself also lacks a sufficient ammo supply. It's one of the few weapons in the game its user will outlive it's ammo supply muliple of times. It doesn't 1hk. Not even scouts die by one hit, and if ya didn't realize the mass driver is the king of either kill assist or king of kill stealing. Most of you who die by one hit are usually being attacked by someone else without realizing it. The gun needs to keep its cqc abilities because it's what makes it do its job. Now tell me this, how many weapons need a flux grenade and ammo supply to be really effective? Hardly any
The gun is fine. It's actually balanced.
Now pros: Good damage Little time to master Decent splash radius
Cons: Somewhat a situational weapon Pretty useless vs higher grounds Very limited ammo User needs to have a situational awareness at all times to avoid suicide. Needs other equipment to become truly effective Harder to use in ranged combat
Now, 1.4 is coming up. That will mean hit detection will be fixed and weapons will work better. Aim assist will be implemented, and the assault rifle is already accurate. So really there is no need to get all worked over this. Of course many of you won't stop. Just wait until the update. The shotgun will be called OP.
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FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
327
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Posted - 2013.08.16 07:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Part Two Tactics against it.
Stay at a distance, don't rush them. Remember they have 6 shots while you have 60. flank them, take them out while reloading. Oh my favorite, use a smg and strafe around trust me it works.
Part Three: Mass driver versus assault rifle
Mass driver pros: Effective at cqc-mid range combat. Effective at tight spots Decent damage
Assault rifle pros: Good at most of the distances Plenty of ammo Aim assistance Easy to use
Mass driver cons: Slow rof Useless against higher elevation Low ammo
Assault rile cons: None. |
FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
341
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 14:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:I would like to mention one tactic against that may seem unintuitive.
In the right situation where you are not seen ahead of time, run at the person and stay close. Any shots at you will hurt them as well, and with your won shots going at them they often suicide or die really quickly.
This obviously wont work if they are tracking you running at them and hurting you on the way.
I am really glad to see a post by someone who thinks things through instead of the regular posts we see on these forums. Yes I've done that in scout suites. Risky but fun when you have a smg which is the king of spray in cqc |
FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
341
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 14:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
McFurious wrote:CCP are now considering it. What will you do if it makes it in the game? Change your tactics? Find another weapon? QQ? I'll probably change my tactics and put more skill into sidearms. I have nothing to change too. I got pretty much all weaponry at level 4 or 3. I dont strictly use the mass driver. I just use it in maps that I'm in the city. Most of the time I either use my AR, smg scout or idk. I've been using my dren heavy a lot lately lol. So again don't troll without knowing what I run. I'm just saying the gun is fine and doesn't have to be touched, it's pointless and dumb to add a minimum aiming distance. It would be one of the worse nerfs I've seen. All I got left to do is get my AR to level 5 (level 4 so far) and probably both of my heavy weaponry. |
FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
341
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 14:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
McFurious wrote:P are now considering it. What will you do if it makes it in the game? Change your tactics? Find another weapon? QQ? I'll probably change my tactics and put more skill into sidearms. I already use that tactics. I rarely kill people in cqc with the mass driver, not because I can't I used to do it a lot. But because I now have my smg at level 3. The reason why I defend the mass driver is because it will make my logi fit useless with the mass driver |
FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
341
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 14:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Absolute Idiom II wrote:Ever since TF2, the grenade launcher-esque weapon has always been my favourite. I love learning the skill it requires to hit people at odd angles when they are above you on slopes. I waited to skill into the mass driver until the de-sync issues were solved and now I get many more kills with it that I ever did with the AR.
I can't quite tell if the MD is OP or just right - I do seem to be pretty good at getting direct hits when people feel most safe against me. On the other hand as an area denial weapon used in CQC when you've learned to not hit yourself with the splash damage it's found it's niche all right. I went 27/7 as an Amarr Logi a few days ago. What are you trying to prove by that score. I can get that using a scout and a smg if im not being hard headed and trying to get kills with my nova knife lol |
FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
341
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 15:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:You have no idea how much of a relief it is to see a post about Mass Drivers by someone who understands their design. It's amazing how quickly the "DURR DURR DURR MASS DRIVERS USE NO SKILL LEARN 2 PLAY NOOB" meme has infected the forums these days. Much of the recent wave of QQ has cropped up in the wake of the flaylock nerf, despite no change to Mass Drivers occurring in the meantime. There's this strange notion about splash weaponry being automatically mindless that persists no matter how much someone elucidates the tactical limitations when compared to a hitscan weapon. Mass driver users that are mindlessly spamming rounds are just as likely to blow themselves up in the process, a phenomenon you'll never see with an assault rifle. I also anxiously await the inevitable ad hominem attack on your OP due to your character name. It's only a matter of time. Thanks again for the well-written analysis, its in short supply these days. o7 The MD-using community is looking to guys like you to be our advocate, our voice. Please convince the devs, especially CCP Logibro (the dev who, ironically, seems to screw over logis the most), that nerfing the MD is a bad idea. Sadly I'm pretty sure ccp will nerf it and implement that dumb minimum arming distance. They nerfed the mass driver so many times it isn't even funny. Which is why I stopped buying aurum. It's pointless to rush to get a new weapon other than the assault rifle because it will get nerfed. Nothing new. |
FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
349
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 17:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Absolute Idiom II wrote:FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:Absolute Idiom II wrote:Ever since TF2, the grenade launcher-esque weapon has always been my favourite. I love learning the skill it requires to hit people at odd angles when they are above you on slop. . I waited to skill into the mass driver until the de-sync issues were solved and now I get many more kills with it that I ever did with the AR.
I can't quite tell if the MD is OP or just right - I do seem to be pretty good at getting direct hits when people feel most safe against me. On the other hand as an area denial weapon used in CQC when you've learned to not hit yourself with the splash damage it's found it's niche all right. I went 27/7 as an Amarr Logi a few days ago. What are you trying to prove by that score. I can get that using a scout and a smg if im not being hard headed and trying to get kills with my nova knife lol Because it's a logi suit (with actual equipment, not distorted into an assault), and an unusually high score for myself in the past few months. Basically, by only changing the weapon that I use to MD I have boosted the number of kills that I get. Sounds like you found a play style that suits you. Your kill total went up when switching to MD, mine went down (though my usefulness to my squad went up because I could provide suppression) both are anecdotal and neither is specific to situations, fits, SP invested or squad synergies. Anecdotal commentary is not reason enough to alter game mechanics, especially when there is conflicting anecdotal information saying the converse as well. 0.02 INK Cross PS ~ For those keeping score at home I use the AR currently because I found that during Uprising a free AR with zero SP support was providing a higher rate of performance for me than a Proto MD with a million plus SP poured into it. I like the concept of the support value the MD provides, but much like the LR I'll put SP into it when CCP makes it clear that it'll be a weapon with tactical utility on par with the AR not the equivalent of in game flavor text (as the AR is now and the MD will more than likely become if the "minimum distance" et al trend continues). Sadly the community doesn't think this way. Put it this way, if someone named Flaylock Steve has a AR at a higher level than the mass driver what does that tell you? Heres a little history on my account. I made it to test out the minja scout and flaylock. This character was actually a alt. Than on accident I put the elite pack on this character. So I decided to make this my main, that. I started going into weaponry. The first light weapon I got was the AR even though I had enough skill points to get the mass drivers. Now I got both heavy weaponry and most of the light weaponry at advanced level. I still say the assault rifle is the most effective gun because it lacks disadvantages that I see with other guns. |
FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
362
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 01:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
I just think the community has to stop crying. The mass driver is finally balanced |
FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
365
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 05:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:I use my MD to scare people away. The only times I get a lot of kills are when people are stupid enough to still come at me. I still get more kills with my Exile AR than my EXO-5 MD. The MD just makes it easier to play a support logi role, no ADS means I can keep an eye on my teammates. Basically it does its job. |
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FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
375
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 22:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:My only reason to even consider a minimum arming distance on a weapon like this for Pub matches is the fact that Friendly Fire is not on. There should be no way for a friendly being a blocker to kill a MD user on their own team, at least not without suffering for it.
Edit: Don't listen to Flaylock Steve about not rushing a MD user, don't worry they like it when you do that it is easier to kill you then. .... tatcis. you should read my other thread. |
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