DUST Search - AV Grenades

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

lithkul devant wrote:

To the OP, your idea sucks, it is just plainly horrible. If the infintry go down to 1 AV how in the heck are we supposed to even phase the LLAV's that run over infintry already with near impunity. Alright...you want to make a trade, if we only get 1 AV gernade, tanks only get 1 second of fire time, have limited ammo and cost 3x what they do right now.

Tanks aren't meant to just go out alone and handle all the infintry and do everything solo, in every war they have had to have infintry and air support in order to survive and even then they were still taken out a lot. Infintry have always had lots of options in order to take out tanks, yet tanks have always been able to unleash a lot of damage.

The collision nerf will eliminate your argument, and if you aren't willing to spend the sp to get a forge gun, or at minimum swarms, then yes, my tank should mop the floors with you. Either spend the sp to get a dedicated AV weapon, at the expense of your infantry killing abilities, or use your one nade to aid the people who did specialize in AV, and avoid tanks unless you have support.

And infantry in real life have lots of options, all of them requiring ambush tactics and coordinated attacks in order to work. A lone rifleman with an anti-tank weapon is dead. A team of them are deadly. The same should indeed apply to Dust.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 23	Posted - 2013.08.15 00:30:00 - [1] - Quote To the OP, your idea sucks, it is just plainly horrible. If the infintry go down to 1 AV how in the heck are we supposed to even phase the LLAV's that run over infintry already with near impunity. Alright...you want to make a trade, if we only get 1 AV gernade, tanks only get 1 second of fire time, have limited ammo and cost 3x what they do right now. Tanks aren't meant to just go out alone and handle all the infintry and do everything solo, in every war they have had to have infintry and air support in order to survive and even then they were still taken out a lot. Infintry have always had lots of options in order to take out tanks, yet tanks have always been able to unleash a lot of damage.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 25	Posted - 2013.08.16 05:24:00 - [2] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: lithkul devant wrote: To the OP, your idea sucks, it is just plainly horrible. If the infintry go down to 1 AV how in the heck are we supposed to even phase the LLAV's that run over infintry already with near impunity. Alright...you want to make a trade, if we only get 1 AV gernade, tanks only get 1 second of fire time, have limited ammo and cost 3x what they do right now. Tanks aren't meant to just go out alone and handle all the infintry and do everything solo, in every war they have had to have infintry and air support in order to survive and even then they were still taken out a lot. Infintry have always had lots of options in order to take out tanks, yet tanks have always been able to unleash a lot of damage. The collision nerf will eliminate your argument, and if you aren't willing to spend the sp to get a forge gun, or at minimum swarms, then yes, my tank should mop the floors with you. Either spend the sp to get a dedicated AV weapon, at the expense of your infantry killing abilities, or use your one nade to aid the people who did specialize in AV, and avoid tanks unless you have support. And infantry in real life have lots of options, all of them requiring ambush tactics and coordinated attacks in order to work. A lone rifleman with an anti-tank weapon is dead. A team of them are deadly. The same should indeed apply to Dust. Alright, lets pretend somehow that special forces don't exsist within real life, who actually do kill tanks in small groups and usually don't even have the enemy know about it till it is to late. The simple fact is that your tanks do not show up on radar appropiately like they should, the same can be said of LAV's and LLAV's, that alone is a significant problem. Also, having to use an AV gernade is actually quite detrimental to my abilities to kill other infintry, if you go under a building should I be allowed to jump on your tank pop open the cap and throw in a locus gernade splattering you on the walls then get to take your tank for a joy ride? Cause that's what the Russians did to the Germans on more then one occassion. Ontop of this, the academy is letting people out at 400 WP, this means a lot of people who do not have the actual ability to drive a tank that is worth a damn. How exactly is it fair to say they will now have 0 options and literally 0 chance in order to repel you or kill you in your tank. For your thoughts about us having to use the Mass driver or swarm launcher, this is absolutely flawed, most people do not go around in heavies, so the Mass driver is not typically an option, the swarm launcher the missiles simply are not smart enough and usually can't even keep up with the tank's speed before it hides behind a wall. Then you also forgot that AV would include proximity explosives, so apparently we should only get 1 landmine as well, even though those are super cheap in real life and laid down in abudance. Yeah, their's whole fields of landmines to deny tanks access to parts of the battlefield in real life. Just saying, no way in hell am I being limited down to one AV gernade unless it is a super gernade that will wipe you out in 1-3 hits.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 33	Posted - 2013.08.16 14:44:00 - [3] - Quote Tanks not showing up on radar is a separate problem that should indeed be fixed. But That has nothing to do with how fast av nades kill tanks. You should give up a lot more than a grenade slot to be able to kill a tank. An LAV, yes. A tank, no. The academy is not a valid reason for allowing more than one av nade. It takes around 75,000 points to get av nades. That's about half a week of active sp. they should not be so effective against tanks. The academy letting out early is a separate problem that needs to be addressed. 400 wp is atrocious. The mass driver isn't an av weapon, and for two, doesn't require a heavy suit anyway, nor does the swarm launcher require a heavy suit. The missiles absolutely can outrun a tank. I said nothing about land mines. Where in this thread did I say anything about land mines? They do wipe out tanks in 1-3 hits. So you only get one. investing less than 75,000sp should not allow you to kill a tank costing ~250,000sp to sit in before modules. Only one per person. [/quote] I was thinking of the wrong weapon when I said mass driver, I had meant forge gun which is a gun that only goes onto heavies, I'm not sure if the Plasma Cannon has a real AV component to it. Land mines are a form of AV and is on the explosives path and requires about the same amount of skilling into as gernades do. Missiles can outrun tanks, they are faster, however, the tracking on them is aweful most times and tanks can hide behind buildings and hills fast enough to make them ineffective. Also, I have never seen a single AV gernade wipe out a full health tank, the strongest AV gernade in the game can not one shot a militia tank. Now to get to the point of it, if the radar is fixed against vehicles to find them easier as it should, tanks should get buffed possibly in the way of resistances or in hps or some other measure. AV gernades/gernades should have a bigger skill path in order for people to have to spec into them more. However, I will say this that for you to get into a tank you've also ranked into LAV's and can even put on a LLAV as well, any points you put into modules affects all vehicle types as well. Possibly the game needs to rebalance the prices of tanks, since the tanks are actually listed as low ranking the same with the LLAV's their is only 1 LLAV per the races that actually have them currently. In short AV gernades should not be limited to 1 a person, but tanks should get buffs or a price decrease or a sp decrease for skilling into. I use my AV gernades normally again LAV's and LLAV's, tanks I usually do not try to take out with an AV gernade unless they are really hammering down on my position or they are running a newb tank. As you pointed out earlier, when and if the damage nerf to collision damage is good enough to where I'm not constantly looking left and right and listening for the revving of an engine then tanks will be a lot more viable for how much of a buff they should be getting. Even then though, AV gernades are meant to keep vehicles on the land from becoming to powerful and overwhelming and just dominating the battlegrounds where turrets can't get to(and because people kill turrets often times just for points) or your team just does not have the vehciles the enemy team does.