DUST Search - AV Grenades

lithkul devant wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

lithkul devant wrote:

To the OP, your idea sucks, it is just plainly horrible. If the infintry go down to 1 AV how in the heck are we supposed to even phase the LLAV's that run over infintry already with near impunity. Alright...you want to make a trade, if we only get 1 AV gernade, tanks only get 1 second of fire time, have limited ammo and cost 3x what they do right now.

Tanks aren't meant to just go out alone and handle all the infintry and do everything solo, in every war they have had to have infintry and air support in order to survive and even then they were still taken out a lot. Infintry have always had lots of options in order to take out tanks, yet tanks have always been able to unleash a lot of damage.

The collision nerf will eliminate your argument, and if you aren't willing to spend the sp to get a forge gun, or at minimum swarms, then yes, my tank should mop the floors with you. Either spend the sp to get a dedicated AV weapon, at the expense of your infantry killing abilities, or use your one nade to aid the people who did specialize in AV, and avoid tanks unless you have support.

And infantry in real life have lots of options, all of them requiring ambush tactics and coordinated attacks in order to work. A lone rifleman with an anti-tank weapon is dead. A team of them are deadly. The same should indeed apply to Dust.

Alright, lets pretend somehow that special forces don't exsist within real life, who actually do kill tanks in small groups and usually don't even have the enemy know about it till it is to late. The simple fact is that your tanks do not show up on radar appropiately like they should, the same can be said of LAV's and LLAV's, that alone is a significant problem.

Also, having to use an AV gernade is actually quite detrimental to my abilities to kill other infintry, if you go under a building should I be allowed to jump on your tank pop open the cap and throw in a locus gernade splattering you on the walls then get to take your tank for a joy ride? Cause that's what the Russians did to the Germans on more then one occassion.

Ontop of this, the academy is letting people out at 400 WP, this means a lot of people who do not have the actual ability to drive a tank that is worth a damn. How exactly is it fair to say they will now have 0 options and literally 0 chance in order to repel you or kill you in your tank.

For your thoughts about us having to use the Mass driver or swarm launcher, this is absolutely flawed, most people do not go around in heavies, so the Mass driver is not typically an option, the swarm launcher the missiles simply are not smart enough and usually can't even keep up with the tank's speed before it hides behind a wall. Then you also forgot that AV would include proximity explosives, so apparently we should only get 1 landmine as well, even though those are super cheap in real life and laid down in abudance. Yeah, their's whole fields of landmines to deny tanks access to parts of the battlefield in real life.

Just saying, no way in hell am I being limited down to one AV gernade unless it is a super gernade that will wipe you out in 1-3 hits.


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Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 68	Posted - 2013.08.14 15:33:00 - [1] - Quote Keep them as they are. Limit them to one. IF you aren't willing to dedicate your light weapon slot to AV, you shouldn't get to blow up a tank by yourself.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 68	Posted - 2013.08.14 16:03:00 - [2] - Quote A valid argument. However, since the collision nerf will greatly reduce, if not eliminate this issue, I would hold that viewpoint moot. One grenade to finish off a damaged tank, or to aid your dedicated AV against a powerful threat (such as proto tanks, if/when they are released) Killing a tank by yourself while still having an effective infantry weapon is unbalanced.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 70	Posted - 2013.08.15 00:23:00 - [3] - Quote If they do add in proto level tanks, I will retract my opinion to reduce AV nade carrying capacity. As it stands now, you can spend >100,000sp and a few isk to kill a tank that takes at minimum ~250,000sp just to sit in, let alone put modules on it, and have the pg/cpu to fit those mods. Yes, infantry not dedicated to AV should indeed be very ineffective at fighting my tank. Not defenceless, you do have one AV nade to use, and you can still ambush an unaware tank, drop a hive, and toss away. But using a cheap LAV to drive up to a tank, hop out, toss nades, and leave, all taking less than 10 sec to do, is OP, and should not stand. One AV nade per person.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 70	Posted - 2013.08.15 00:40:00 - [4] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: To the OP, your idea sucks, it is just plainly horrible. If the infintry go down to 1 AV how in the heck are we supposed to even phase the LLAV's that run over infintry already with near impunity. Alright...you want to make a trade, if we only get 1 AV gernade, tanks only get 1 second of fire time, have limited ammo and cost 3x what they do right now. Tanks aren't meant to just go out alone and handle all the infintry and do everything solo, in every war they have had to have infintry and air support in order to survive and even then they were still taken out a lot. Infintry have always had lots of options in order to take out tanks, yet tanks have always been able to unleash a lot of damage. The collision nerf will eliminate your argument, and if you aren't willing to spend the sp to get a forge gun, or at minimum swarms, then yes, my tank should mop the floors with you. Either spend the sp to get a dedicated AV weapon, at the expense of your infantry killing abilities, or use your one nade to aid the people who did specialize in AV, and avoid tanks unless you have support. And infantry in real life have lots of options, all of them requiring ambush tactics and coordinated attacks in order to work. A lone rifleman with an anti-tank weapon is dead. A team of them are deadly. The same should indeed apply to Dust.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 83	Posted - 2013.08.16 09:54:00 - [5] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: lithkul devant wrote: To the OP, your idea sucks, it is just plainly horrible. If the infintry go down to 1 AV how in the heck are we supposed to even phase the LLAV's that run over infintry already with near impunity. Alright...you want to make a trade, if we only get 1 AV gernade, tanks only get 1 second of fire time, have limited ammo and cost 3x what they do right now. Tanks aren't meant to just go out alone and handle all the infintry and do everything solo, in every war they have had to have infintry and air support in order to survive and even then they were still taken out a lot. Infintry have always had lots of options in order to take out tanks, yet tanks have always been able to unleash a lot of damage. The collision nerf will eliminate your argument, and if you aren't willing to spend the sp to get a forge gun, or at minimum swarms, then yes, my tank should mop the floors with you. Either spend the sp to get a dedicated AV weapon, at the expense of your infantry killing abilities, or use your one nade to aid the people who did specialize in AV, and avoid tanks unless you have support. And infantry in real life have lots of options, all of them requiring ambush tactics and coordinated attacks in order to work. A lone rifleman with an anti-tank weapon is dead. A team of them are deadly. The same should indeed apply to Dust. Alright, lets pretend somehow that special forces don't exsist within real life, who actually do kill tanks in small groups and usually don't even have the enemy know about it till it is to late. The simple fact is that your tanks do not show up on radar appropiately like they should, the same can be said of LAV's and LLAV's, that alone is a significant problem. Also, having to use an AV gernade is actually quite detrimental to my abilities to kill other infintry, if you go under a building should I be allowed to jump on your tank pop open the cap and throw in a locus gernade splattering you on the walls then get to take your tank for a joy ride? Cause that's what the Russians did to the Germans on more then one occassion. Ontop of this, the academy is letting people out at 400 WP, this means a lot of people who do not have the actual ability to drive a tank that is worth a damn. How exactly is it fair to say they will now have 0 options and literally 0 chance in order to repel you or kill you in your tank. For your thoughts about us having to use the Mass driver or swarm launcher, this is absolutely flawed, most people do not go around in heavies, so the Mass driver is not typically an option, the swarm launcher the missiles simply are not smart enough and usually can't even keep up with the tank's speed before it hides behind a wall. Then you also forgot that AV would include proximity explosives, so apparently we should only get 1 landmine as well, even though those are super cheap in real life and laid down in abudance. Yeah, their's whole fields of landmines to deny tanks access to parts of the battlefield in real life. Just saying, no way in hell am I being limited down to one AV gernade unless it is a super gernade that will wipe you out in 1-3 hits. Tanks not showing up on radar is a separate problem that should indeed be fixed. But That has nothing to do with how fast av nades kill tanks. You should give up a lot more than a grenade slot to be able to kill a tank. An LAV, yes. A tank, no. The academy is not a valid reason for allowing more than one av nade. It takes around 75,000 points to get av nades. That's about half a week of active sp. they should not be so effective against tanks. The academy letting out early is a separate problem that needs to be addressed. 400 wp is atrocious. The mass driver isn't an av weapon, and for two, doesn't require a heavy suit anyway, nor does the swarm launcher require a heavy suit. The missiles absolutely can outrun a tank. I said nothing about land mines. Where in this thread did I say anything about land mines? They do wipe out tanks in 1-3 hits. So you only get one. investing less than 75,000sp should not allow you to kill a tank costing ~250,000sp to sit in before modules. Only one per person.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 92	Posted - 2013.08.19 15:52:00 - [6] - Quote Exactly how it should be. It should take that long for someone armed with only AV nades to kill a tank.