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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1605
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Posted - 2013.08.13 04:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been told that despite CPM0 not being elected that they still "represent" the player community and have the best intentions for Dust overall.
I have been told to post here where I see this isn't the case, so here I go:
Quote:From what I heard at fanfest, the lockon does not confer godmode aim. I'm led to believe the rockets can be dodged despite the ability to lock. These things also will apparently not be able to dumbfire.
However, I'm firmly in the camp that these abominations should be cleansed in a holy fire and never see the light of day :P
This doesn't seem to indicate the good of the game overall is important to this particular member.
another:
Quote:Heh.
Personally, I'm not a fan of swords in FPS games that are supposed to be about 'gun game'. While it's incredibly satisfying to run up and melee someone by showing them that you can out-strafe their gungame... I would much prefer if CCP stayed away from the crappy SPACE NINJA gimmick that seems to weasel it's way into every sci-fi game imaginable.
If you wanna play a gun game with swords and a proper melee system.. Play warframe. It has an engine actually designed for that sort of thing, and it's pretty damn fun :P
Swords in dust seem like nothing more than an unnecessary gimmick to me. Knives were mostly acceptable because every solider in the history of pretty much ever, carries a knife. It's standard gear. The dual wielding decision was a bit meh, but I can deal. Besides... I've said in the past. The day CCP puts in swords, is the day I quit dust. That's not to be read as an ultimatum to CCP or anything. If they want to put in swords, let them put in swords.That will just be the last straw for me personally, and I won't be able to take the game seriously anymore if they try to cater to the SPACE NINJA crowd.
Again, here we see that the CPM member seems to be much more concerned with his/her own agenda rather than that of the community.
Another:
Quote:I've spoken my piece on the matter.
I liked to think I properly displayed how broken they were at Fanfest when I was given the chance to 1v1 a couple CCP dudes in a closed room, and not only annihilated them, but the innocent spectators (who were using guns, and included the rest of the CPM) as well which later tried to join in to assist the CCP guys. However, they left the knives with their doubled power anyways, and as hilarious as they are right now... I do think they're too strong, but not by a lot.
All that's left to say is :
Come get some!
Don't stress too much about 'proof'. I'll gladly give kudos and public props to anyone that manages to knife me :)
Here we see epeen posturing and backroom dealings rather than the desires of the playerbase and the realities of Tranquility.
Here's another one (truncated for space)
Quote:So, right now... What we have is basically suits and skill bonuses that were given seemingly arbitrary assignments to each suit type with little relation to one another. This creates a whole slew of problems, that have been covered by dozens of people in hundreds of threads in the last 15+ months of dust, which I don't feel bear repeating, since they can easily be summed up as "Nothing is really in a good place right now. Just because everything is bad doesn't mean it's balanced"
With Uprising, CCP at least made some attempt to create a 'racial identity' amongst the suits, varying their bonuses and slot layouts somewhat. While this is the right move, it was not done in the right way. The idea of racial identify needs to be expanded on, as it's an excellent method of creating a distinct role definition for each race and their specializations.
My proposition is as follows :
Homogenize in order to diversify. Start each suit of a given class off with the exact same stats, and then create a set of racial modifiers, followed by specialization modifiers . Within certain allotment restrictions this creates the end result of wildly different suits, with the same general amount of stats, allocated differently. This eliminates all worry of one suit inexplicably having better stats than others, with no explanation as to why.
...
"Caldari = Lots of shield, almost no armor, medium speed, low equipment slots"
"MInmatar = Medium shield, Low armor, High speed, High amount equipment slots"
"Gallente =Low shield, High armor, medium speed, low equipment slots"
"Amarr: High sh
I thought the CPM0 was supposed to be pushing what the community wants, not shaping the game based on their own personal agenda. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
2628
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Posted - 2013.08.13 04:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Are you not pushing your own personal agenda? I never voted for you. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1607
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Posted - 2013.08.13 04:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Are you not pushing your own personal agenda? I never voted for you.
Yeah, I am, but I'm not pushing it in any way that any other player can't.
That's my point.
The CPM isn't elected, and yet they have the privileged ear of CCP to push their own agenda. Shouldn't they be focusing on getting the elected body in place so an elected body can do just that? |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
2630
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Posted - 2013.08.13 05:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Are you not pushing your own personal agenda? I never voted for you. Yeah, I am, but I'm not pushing it in any way that any other player can't. That's my point. The CPM isn't elected, and yet they have the privileged ear of CCP to push their own agenda. Shouldn't they be focusing on getting the elected body in place so an elected body can do just that? I honestly don't know what the CPM did to you that's making you rage so hard. I saw your posts in the CPM thread about CCP communication issues, saw you go off to make your own voting thread, and now you're here because you didn't like the answers you were getting.
The people (as evidenced by your own thread), for the most part, like what the CPM are doing. Whether or not they were elected doesn't appear to matter to anyone but you and a strangely silent populace. Just because they didn't win the popularity contest (and who does other than The Mittani?) doesn't mean that they shouldn't have any representative ability.
As for your "evidence", they are all player opinions. Not once did they say "I am going to do this", but "I don't like this". They voice their opinions, just like you are doing right now. I highly doubt that they're ordering CCP to not put in nova swords because it's dumb. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1608
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Posted - 2013.08.13 05:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Buster Friently wrote:TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:Are you not pushing your own personal agenda? I never voted for you. Yeah, I am, but I'm not pushing it in any way that any other player can't. That's my point. The CPM isn't elected, and yet they have the privileged ear of CCP to push their own agenda. Shouldn't they be focusing on getting the elected body in place so an elected body can do just that? I honestly don't know what the CPM did to you that's making you rage so hard. I saw your posts in the CPM thread about CCP communication issues, saw you go off to make your own voting thread, and now you're here because you didn't like the answers you were getting. The people (as evidenced by your own thread), for the most part, like what the CPM are doing. Whether or not they were elected doesn't appear to matter to anyone but you and a strangely silent populace. Just because they didn't win the popularity contest (and who does other than The Mittani?) doesn't mean that they shouldn't have any representative ability. As for your "evidence", they are all player opinions. Not once did they say "I am going to do this", but "I don't like this". They voice their opinions, just like you are doing right now. I highly doubt that they're ordering CCP to not put in nova swords because it's dumb.
I'm not raging, but thanks.
The unelected CPM has said that they represent the community, however, as evidenced by the posts they are (or could be) easily abusing their posts because they have special access to CCP. One of the quoted posts makes it clear that that's exactly what one member did - used their special position to push their own, personal view of balance on CCP - something that you and I can't do.
Now, it seems you are correct that most players seem to agree that the CPM is helping them. I have only said that this shouldn't be the role of CPM0 due the fact that they're unelected and because they're working on pushing their views to CCP this may be taking away from efforts that should be put in to prepping an election.
As for the popularity contest. You are, of course, correct, but at least, at the minimum, it's been a decision made by the players.
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Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
1661
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Posted - 2013.08.13 05:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Let's see. Do you have a problem with the CPM, or with me? Because those are all quotes of my posts.
Let's try to address your concerns, then.
1st quote :
This is a post referring to flaylocks, and a variant we have not yet seen that locks on to infantry. Give the amount of rage that people have over flaylocks being used to aim at their feet... I think it's pretty safe to say that most people would agree that a 'lock-on' variant could easily leave a /very/ sour taste in the mouths of many. Personally, I view them as abominations.
2nd Quote :
This is quoting a post where someone is asking for swords, 'just because'. I am voicing my own personal opinion and also quite clearly state in the last paragraph, That they can put in swords if they want. I'm not stopping them, nor offering an ultimatum. I'll just have lost any serious I had left for the game.
So, was this really "Pushing my own agenda?"
Moving on to the third quote.
This is a post regarding Nova Knives, and their 'unnecessary" buff. I'm firmly in the camp that the Knifes were -amazing- before Uprising. Anyone who wants to know what their damage was like then... Literally all you have to do is swing the knives without charging them. That's how they used to be, when you charged them. (You couldn't swing them without charging before) Now, they've added the uncharged swing (One buff, which was a good change) but then... they doubled the output of the knives, making the 'double swipe attack' do around 800 damage before modifiers, whereas they used to do 400 before modifiers.
I never had any problems slicing anyone before the change, so I personally felt that the changes with pretty over the top without any real justification. I had the opportunity to show CCP dudes in person why they were a little crazy after the changes, and I did.
Yes, this is a case where I have pushed for something out of personal motivations. But, you should examine this ; I was not pushing for my own benefit - I was pushing for something that greatly benefited my personal playstyle to be reverted to it's less powerful state.
You should also know that this has not been brought up internally since then. I said my piece, it's CCP's business what they do beyond that. Anyone else at fanfest could've done the same.
Let's move on to the 4th quote:
So, this one was about a theory about how to solve this horrible jumble of 'balance' we're plagued with. The suits and their stats are a mess. I had a thought on a method to fix that. I did not push this internally with CCP, even if I could have. If you actually read the thread you were trying to take out of context to push your own Anti-CPM0 agenda, you would see multiple times my own posts saying things like "I wanted to see what people thought, and I didn't feel comfortable being the one to suggest the numbers"
Now that that's been said, let me leave you with this ;
Representation is not about choice. Representation is about being heard. No, the CPM0 was not chosen by the players. But, we do represent the players, as best as we're able to. This is not about being smug, and feeling superior. (Which is what you'd get from an elected council FYI) We are not deaf to the needs or wants of the players. We pass these along to the devs much more often than we do our own preferences. We cite those preferences if appropriate, but cite them as our own and that players tend to disagree, if this is the case. A wise man told me once "Being in a position like this is not about how you benefit and work for those who chose you, it's about how you work on behalf of those who didn't."
Some more food for thought.
Several of us are in no less than a half dozen 'focus group' channels in skype. (created by other players, which we have been invited to to discuss their varied topics with them, and stay in the loop) I can't speak for the others (but I assume their experience is similar)
I log in every day to skype, and recieve no less than several thousand messages per day, regarding dust. These come from the various focus group channels, individual players asking me questions or asking me to look at a thread they posted, and so forth. I then check the forums, my email, and twitter to ensure I haven't missed any attempts to contact me or anything I should respond to.
Several hours later after sitting down with my monitors, I can finally log into Dust. (Assuming there hasn't been active conversations in the skype channels that I need to pay attention to, which I place priority on communication with those players) When I get into dust, I quickly check for mail and respond to any messages. After this, I'm lucky if I haven't recieved a chat invite from someone who noticed I am online and wants to chat. I can usually score a couple games before I get a random chat or squad invite, and try to spread myself around to hear from as many groups as possible.
Though, with the level of communication I try to maintain with the players, time to actually play the game is scarce. So, there is admittedly some weight to the accusations when people say "The CPM don't even play." There is a simple reason for this ; If we're doing our job right - It's damn hard to find the time to actually play.
The CPM is a thankless, and grueling position to be in. The amount of effort involved is astounding. Meetings are often at very awkward times for those on the council who have jobs, to accomodate CCP's schedule across the timezones. So, it's easy to hate on us, all you like.
But we all knew what we were getting into. We put ourselves in such a difficult position for only one reason. We want Dust to be a GOOD game, so that when our term is over it will be healthy, and something that we can truly enjoy with all the friend's we've made while we were on this crazy ride, and our free time, is one again... Our free time.
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
1223
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Posted - 2013.08.13 10:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lol Buster, you really do push your agenda hard. The CPM is allowed their own personal opinions and trust me, the elected CPMs will be far worse for this sort of stuff. The thing is, this isn't a problem. Show us an example where there is any evidence whatsoever that a CPM has gotten CCP to do something that has benefited that CPM member or their corp or anything in particular and I'll consider that a problem. Until then, all your examples above are meaningless. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1617
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 14:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Lol Buster, you really do push your agenda hard. The CPM is allowed their own personal opinions and trust me, the elected CPMs will be far worse for this sort of stuff. The thing is, this isn't a problem. Show us an example where there is any evidence whatsoever that a CPM has gotten CCP to do something that has benefited that CPM member or their corp or anything in particular and I'll consider that a problem. Until then, all your examples above are meaningless.
Of course I push my point of view hard. Also, you know that there's no way to show what you ask because we, the players, don't have the same level of access to CCP, so we can't see when someone pushes their own agenda and takes advantage of their CPM membership. I can only point out when they do this in the public forums.
To Nova Knife - I've never claimed the position was easy. Still though. When you say that you want Dust to be good, who decides what constitutes good? This is where I believe representation, right from elections forward, is necessary.
Personally, I don't have confidence that your ideas for what are good changes necessarily represent actual good changes.
Certainly elected officials would push their own agenda too, but they would be elected to do so, and we might have an idea what those agendas are, we might also have had opportunity to elect members who hold opposing agendas. I think these sorts of considerations are important.
Thanks for your response. I'm going to leave it here for now. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
3113
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Buster, the simple fact is that the current CPM members are the best people for the job. All of them were closed beta players so they have xoerience of past CCP mistakes, all of them havenbeen involved in a wide range of roles In Dust, all of them have been outspoken to a degree about their opinions.
An elected body would not only consume valuable dev time getting into place, but they would doubtlessly be much worse than the current incumbents. Everyone on the CPM right now is someone I respect and trust to fight the players corner in discussions with CCP, they have given no evidence to the cobtray on that point. An elected body would probably just end up consumed by personal politics. Also aside from you I haven't seen many people complain about the CPM, the majority of the community seem happy with who we have now in fact. |
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