DUST Search - Need to raise the matter of hate mail.

Nova Knife wrote:

I don't know, but I really think it should be on a case-by-case basis.

People rage, it's a natural response. It's often hilarious (which is beside the point, though) and it's generally healthy to vent, even if it's immature.

I think (Especially where death threats are concerned) that there is a very fine line here between protecting your customer and unnecessary whistle-blowing. While annoying... We've probably all heard about that case in the united states where some guy made a joke online about a bomb and a school and has been in jail for the last few months.

Sometimes things get like this get blown -way- out of proportion, and unless someone has any legitimate ability or intent of actually carrying out such a threat, it should be passed off as the immature, rage-fueled vent that it is. There's no need to go crazy over some guy in North America passing an immature threat to a dude in Europe, for example.

I dunno. That's just my feels on the matter. Some hate mail is funny, others are straight up offensive, and some can be legitimately scary. But I don't think any sort of blanket policy should be enacted or explored.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 443	Posted - 2013.08.12 19:51:00 - [1] - Quote I know it may seem a tiny thing with so many problems to sort out in the game but I've received some disturbing reports from some of our members about the prevalence of hate mail. We can't stop morons sending it. But there should be an in game system of reporting it or forwarding it to a member of customer services at CCP. Some of it is really very sinister with one of my members getting a threat to stab them in real life!! I'm sure everyone would agree that kind of behaviour must be stomped out fast. I personally think a death threat such as that should mean that the IP Address of the console it was sent from should be immediately perma banned from TQ. Someone is going to say HTFU in answer to such a problem. I think it best to say now that the rest of us hold you in contempt when you do. Obviously this would cause extra work for the community and customer services but if CCP are seen to be having a zero tolerance attitude to this I think it would be good for the games image.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 649	Posted - 2013.08.12 20:13:00 - [2] - Quote I am curious as to whether the "Block" function available for chats will block mail as well. I agree if it doesn't, it should. Currently the only recourse for something super serious would be a petition ... not ideal since it requires stepping out of game to use a PC web client, but it is all we have at the moment. Also, HTFU. ... kidding.
Aqil Aegivan The Southern Legion 161	Posted - 2013.08.12 20:14:00 - [3] - Quote We really just need CSPA.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1661	Posted - 2013.08.13 03:03:00 - [4] - Quote I don't know, but I really think it should be on a case-by-case basis. People rage, it's a natural response. It's often hilarious (which is beside the point, though) and it's generally healthy to vent, even if it's immature. I think (Especially where death threats are concerned) that there is a very fine line here between protecting your customer and unnecessary whistle-blowing. While annoying... We've probably all heard about that case in the united states where some guy made a joke online about a bomb and a school and has been in jail for the last few months. Sometimes things get like this get blown -way- out of proportion, and unless someone has any legitimate ability or intent of actually carrying out such a threat, it should be passed off as the immature, rage-fueled vent that it is. There's no need to go crazy over some guy in North America passing an immature threat to a dude in Europe, for example. I dunno. That's just my feels on the matter. Some hate mail is funny, others are straight up offensive, and some can be legitimately scary. But I don't think any sort of blanket policy should be enacted or explored.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 445	Posted - 2013.08.13 07:02:00 - [5] - Quote Thanks for speaking about it Nova. Normally I'd agree with you and to a certain extent I still do but here in the UK 'cyber-bullying' is become a political hot potato after a small number of young people have tragically committed suicide after being the victims of trolling and online threats. It might be best to be seen as pro-active in this area rather than being forced into doing something later.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1663	Posted - 2013.08.13 07:10:00 - [6] - Quote Like I said, it should be done on a case-by-case basis. If it's happening frequently enough to cause enough emotional trauma to someone to provoke suicide (or thoughts thereof), this is generally not what one would classify as 'rage mail' and definitely deserves a response. However, in cases of people simple spamming you with mails like "LOL GET OUT YOU SUCK AT DUST, <(nsert a suggestion of Inserting a sexual organ into another, usually involving a mother or other parental figure) , followed by (insert racial or homophobic slur) , possibly repeated" <--- Mails like this can pretty much be ignored. Both players in the end are CCP's customers. It's senseless for them to take punitive measures that deny gameplay for someone doing something that is harmless, albeit immature. Like said in my first reply though, there is a fine line that defines protecting your customer. There are serious cases when action is demanded, but I would probably wager that the majority of hate/rage mail does not warrant such a response. AFAIK, CCP already has in place procedures for these 'serious cases', I'll poke someone in CS to get a definite quote.
CommanderBolt A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 163	Posted - 2013.08.13 12:48:00 - [7] - Quote Just dont read it.
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 181	Posted - 2013.08.13 17:07:00 - [8] - Quote There is no way to forward or report offensive mail. This should be added.
Dr Dammit Sognariket Logistics 1	Posted - 2013.08.13 17:57:00 - [9] - Quote Threatening to kill someone is illegal whether it happens online or face to face. It should result in a perma-ban (from both Dust and PSN) and a chat with the local constabulary.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1230	Posted - 2013.08.13 18:55:00 - [10] - Quote There is already a way to report players for offensive or abusive contact but you have to do it by creating a support ticket via the web client. Whilst I understand Nova Knife's concerns about immaturity being taken too seriously, he is somewhat missing the point here. The exact same rules that already exist would still apply, you'd just be able to report players in-game instead of only through the web client.

Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 59	Posted - 2013.08.14 08:21:00 - [11] - Quote Ok a few good points here, but I must add that jurisdictional implications are always difficult to judge. Having said that, and this is only for an example in the UK if you receive a death threat in a telecommunication , be it in a text message, e-mail, phone call, etc. then you can be in a lot of trouble. First of all, if it's offensive and obscene, you can be charged under the public order act, and the telecommunications act has a separate offense for threatening or harassing messages. What this means, if you are threatened by someone within the same country - then that person can and will get into trouble, regardless of the intent behind the message. In France for example, you can just lodge a complaint regardless of the origin of the jurisdiction the person resides in - of course they will usually only take action if it's within their jurisdiction. Having said that, for serious cases, they can be served EU wide. I don't know enough about North American legislation to give an example, but as they are all based on common law, it may resemble the UK side (while other European countries based on civil law will resemble the French ones). If you feel threatened by another player because he is harassing you via in-game mail, either because it is repetitive (spamming/harassment) or just threatening bodily harm (I will kill you), just report it to the police. What will happen is that law enforcement will engage both Sony Entertainment network and CCP to get copies of the transactions if the complaint is followed through and deemed serious enough. If CCP have no processes in place to deal with this, I guarantee you they will be created within a few days of the first discovery requests (or warrants, subpoenas, etc.) being served. So use your discretion - if YOU feel threatened genuinely, then make a complaint to law enforcement, and inform CCP of your intentions. If you feel it's just an immature rant, then just discount it. My opinion is yes, they should have policies and procedures in place for dealing with this, if they don't, they will be put into place regardless of what their opinion is on the matter either - it's a legal issue.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1241	Posted - 2013.08.14 22:50:00 - [12] - Quote Okay, though it is a consideration, I feel people are getting a little caught up in legal/criminal matters and implications here, which takes this whole discussion to another level. All that is needed is a report to CCP button in-game and that simple little step will allow abuse tickets to be filed much easier than currently. Of course you can report threats to the police as well but this is separate from what is being called for in the OP.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1713	Posted - 2013.08.14 23:44:00 - [13] - Quote Like I said, it really should be on a case-by-case basis. A lot of stuff doesn't need to be reported, and simply wastes the time of the customer support staff, while responding to a childish response with an even more childish attempt to tattle. Yes, there are serious cases where action required. However, I feel like adding a 'report' feature will really do more harm than good, and just flood CCP's support staff with harassment tickets when they could be using that time to solve more pressing issues, like people who have problems with their accounts. For example ... If I were to receive a mail saying the following : "Nova you are such a (Insert Slur/Insult) and I had sexual relations with your (Mother/Father/Sister/Household Pet), you have a weight problem and you are terrible at dust" Within the current rules I could easily report this person, and they would likely recieve a warning and/or get banned if they had been warned multiple times. Now... Just because I could report this person, should I? Sure, it's easy to take up the position that he's a jerk and deserves whatever is coming to him, but I don't think so. In cases like this, it's just someone who's pissed and is venting the only way they know how. It's immature, but it's definitely not a problem, in my eyes. However, if I were to recieve a mail saying something along the lines "Nova, you piece of trash, I know you live in (city) at (area) and I'm going to come stab you in the face with something rusty" Now, this is cause for concern and something that definitely deserves action and full attention from CCP and probably RL authorities. But... this is an extreme case. There are cases in between, where consistent, less serious mails can combine into a larger, more serious case of cyber-bullying... which again deserves serious attention and action. However, I'm really hesitant and cautious that the difference between immature rage mail, and legitimate hate mail will become blurred, and people will rush to get others banned for really stupid reasons, which will only waste CCP's time and deny them players.
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 187	Posted - 2013.08.15 14:10:00 - [14] - Quote While it will be an issue with people reporting mail that shouldn't be reported it should still be available. Perhaps an email address with a mail id in that mail(this should stop many people who don't think it's serious enough to report).
Django Quik Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1247	Posted - 2013.08.15 21:52:00 - [15] - Quote The line should be defined by CCP - it is their responsibility to protect their playerbase but they can't do this if they don't provide people with a way to say they need protecting.
Cass Caul Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2013.08.16 01:23:00 - [16] - Quote Personally, I love making petitions on the DUST 514 site and the Playstation Network site when people send hate mail. Made better by quoting the section of the EULA that no one else reads.

GM Grave Game Masters C C P Alliance 316	Posted - 2013.08.18 18:06:00 - [17] - Quote It is considered a violation or our EULA & TOS to send abusive or otherwise offensive content in game. Should you come across users who are involved in such violations then simply contact CCP via the support system linked below and we'll look into it and take the appropriate action. http://dust514.com/community/support/

Lillica Deathdealer Mango and Friends 127	Posted - 2013.08.18 19:39:00 - [18] - Quote But receiving hatemail is how I know I've been successful D:
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC TYRANNY of EVIL MEN 21	Posted - 2013.08.19 01:04:00 - [19] - Quote Dr Dammit wrote: Threatening to kill someone is illegal whether it happens online or face to face. It should result in a perma-ban (from both Dust and PSN) and a chat with the local constabulary. Unless your a total coward your not going to call the police I hope....
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC TYRANNY of EVIL MEN 21	Posted - 2013.08.19 01:06:00 - [20] - Quote GM Grave wrote: It is considered a violation or our EULA & TOS to send abusive or otherwise offensive content in game. Should you come across users who are involved in such violations then simply contact CCP via the support system linked below and we'll look into it and take the appropriate action. http://dust514.com/community/support/ Does denying my respec post major suit nerf via help ticket count as hate mail?

INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC TYRANNY of EVIL MEN 21	Posted - 2013.08.19 01:08:00 - [21] - Quote Django Quik wrote: The line should be defined by CCP - it is their responsibility to protect their playerbase but they can't do this if they don't provide people with a way to say they need protecting. Their responsibility to protect a grown man? Online? In a video game? What have you people become? Please protect me ccp? So bad.....
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy 595	Posted - 2013.08.19 02:24:00 - [22] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Does denying my respec post major suit nerf via help ticket count as hate mail? Are you a Scout? Which major suit nerf, Uprising 1.0 or 1.2? (sorry, had to ... I know you're a Cal Logi)
Ether Cannon DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2013.08.19 04:38:00 - [23] - Quote Ahah, the coveted hate mail. I want some! The sqauds I've been in call those messages "fan-mail" and keep them as trophies. I've only gotten one, so I suppose I'm not doing well. One of the best sqaud leaders I've played with once got three fan-mails in a single match. Congratulations went round. Ah, I guess this wasn't really in the spirit of your original post, but I suppose it really depends on how you see things. Personally, I wouldn't be in favor of punishing hate mail senders. Speechcraft is an essential skill and weapon, and keeping a healthy level of hate on-hand sharpens the resolve. I'd consider trash talk part of the meta-game, if not the game proper.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 543	Posted - 2013.08.19 08:38:00 - [24] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: I don't know, but I really think it should be on a case-by-case basis. People rage, it's a natural response. It's often hilarious (which is beside the point, though) and it's generally healthy to vent, even if it's immature. I think (Especially where death threats are concerned) that there is a very fine line here between protecting your customer and unnecessary whistle-blowing. While annoying... We've probably all heard about that case in the united states where some guy made a joke online about a bomb and a school and has been in jail for the last few months. Sometimes things get like this get blown -way- out of proportion, and unless someone has any legitimate ability or intent of actually carrying out such a threat, it should be passed off as the immature, rage-fueled vent that it is. There's no need to go crazy over some guy in North America passing an immature threat to a dude in Europe, for example. I dunno. That's just my feels on the matter. Some hate mail is funny, others are straight up offensive, and some can be legitimately scary. But I don't think any sort of blanket policy should be enacted or explored. your comments here are extremely insensitive. that "guy" may or may not have been joking, but you may have heard of other "guys" in America who have said similar things, were not taken seriously and carried it out... many children have died in America because people took your position.... the bottom line is ANY kind of hate speech has no place, anywhere, including this game. the CPM must get behind topics like this, or when hate speech in this game is taken too far, be held accountable for it.
Soraya Xel New Eden's Most Wanted Top Men. 269	Posted - 2013.08.19 14:22:00 - [25] - Quote I really enjoy getting hate mail. But obviously sometimes it crosses the line, and then you file a petition.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1292	Posted - 2013.08.19 18:13:00 - [26] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Django Quik wrote: The line should be defined by CCP - it is their responsibility to protect their playerbase but they can't do this if they don't provide people with a way to say they need protecting. Their responsibility to protect a grown man? Online? In a video game? What have you people become? Please protect me ccp? So bad..... This is a 15 rated game with no restrictions on being downloaded by anyone younger than that - you don't even need to be old enough to have access to a credit card. There is no justification for any kind of hate mail, no matter how raging you are. If you're angry, send an angry message but telling someone you want them to get cancer or you're actually going to kill them in real life is crossing the line and there should be a simple and easy way to report this in any online game.
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 191	Posted - 2013.08.20 08:21:00 - [27] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Django Quik wrote: The line should be defined by CCP - it is their responsibility to protect their playerbase but they can't do this if they don't provide people with a way to say they need protecting. Their responsibility to protect a grown man? Online? In a video game? What have you people become? Please protect me ccp? So bad..... Threats need to be taken seriously due to the ease with which we can find information about somebody. It took me about 5 minutes to figure out where you live(a bit of a guess and it could be way off but if you went to Gibbs High School then I found you). If someone did what I did and if it's right then someone could be coming to your door to break your legs or stab you or something. If it's wrong then some random guy might suffer because it wasn't reported.
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 611	Posted - 2013.08.20 21:14:00 - [28] - Quote It should be treated EXACTLY like its treated in Eve. Easy to block, possible to report, and entirely ignored by GMs except in the following cases: -block evasion by character cycling -Specific threats of real-life violence/harm (and these subjected to strict scrutiny before bans are handed out, in-game threats are "protected speech") -racism/vulgarity (starting with warnings, progressing to gags, and eventually temp bans). Frankly, sending someone a nasty, swear-laced mail once is intended gameplay and does not rise to the level of harassment.
jingle wingle Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2013.08.21 07:49:00 - [29] - Quote Dear people in this thread, I will kill you (ingame). Best regards, jingle P.S. consider this my hatemail and I will definitely walk up to you and shoot you in the face (ingame)
Laiod Klan Vortex State Empire 0	Posted - 2013.08.21 14:30:00 - [30] - Quote When you receive hate mail ignore it. I get mail like that all the time in other games. No biggie. Just a loser trying to make somebody scared.



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