DUST Search - Driftward's General Scout Guide

voidfaction wrote:

Driftward wrote:

My problem with dampeners at this point is not that they don't "work" but that they are very very situational. They protect against proto scanners and MAYBE scouts that are eWAR focused. For now. I loved them in the chromosome build. Uprising not so much.

My main problem is the shared LOS on TACNET. As soon as you get spotted by eye running between boxes.....that's it for your advantage. Then, your modules aren't helping you at all

voidfaction's fit sounds pretty awesome actually. The utility as a killing machine seems a lot less but then again that's not really the role it's going for. I hadn't really thought of those fits mostly because I assumed all of eWAR was trash due to everything else being crapish....

With the shared vision changes coming, those fits are going to start being a lot more important and if they up the ranges on scanning then it might even be feasible on a non lame-duck fitting.

Regardless, as a general guide I think it's not a good idea to go into eWar skills early (right now) and probably more important to round out other skills. Once you hit maybe 8 mill sp you can start to make the choice of biotics, eWar, or combination.

the way i understand profile dampening and precision is when someone has line of sight on you and your dampening is low then your not put on the tacnet for all to see unless the one that sees you has higher precision so you may be spotted by the one person when your running but they are the only one that sees you. you also have the factor of hiding from scanners both passive/active.


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Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 356	Posted - 2013.08.12 18:23:00 - [1] - Quote Scout Guide I originally wrote this for my corporation but I feel that the scout community might benefit from some new members to the Hard Mode club. Here's a run down of how I've made scouts work for me and what I consider to be a reasonable pathway to scoutdom. Skill Info: When skilling into a scout suit keep in mind that you have very few slots, low eHP, and limited CPU/PG. That means that fitting a scout is quite restrictive and we need to play to it's advantages more than most classes. With that said, mobility is king for scouts. Unfortunately, the biotics skills are locked behind one lvl 4 skill and one lvl 5 skill. So, Priorities. 1. Shield and armor upgrades to level 3-4 MINIMUM. (it doesn't help as much as other classes, but scouts need every HP they can get) 2. Shield extenders should be at 3 MINIMUM, 5 preferably 3. Electronics and engineering so that we can fit our fancy new shield extenders. Level 2-3 is a good start. 4/5. Biotics. Expensive? YES. Worth it? ABSOLUTELY. Even if you can't get biotics to level 5, those 1% increases to sprint and stamina help more than you would think. At level 5 then put 1 point in cardiac reg and kin cats. 4/5. Weapons. As you put points into biotics also be skilling into your primary weapon of choice. For scouts this typically breaks down to 3-4 options. Shotgun, Knives, Sniper, Swarms. Skill up to level 3 operations if you can. Advanced level weapons give major boosts to game play. Swarms are a secondary weapon and mainly for those rare occasions that you are close to a supply depot and can help your team out. Swarms are a Moderate priority. For an AV fit, skill 1 into explosives and 1 into grenadier and voila AV nades (not the best and not a solo weapon, but helpful for your team and for the random militia LAV). So you have some core skills now. What's next? Dropsuits. When looking at scouts we have two options, Minmatar or Gallente. Minmatar has arguably a better slot loadout at proto level, Gallente has more survivability against energy weapons with slightly more armor to start with and more low slots (which is nice as all biotics modules are low slots and potentially more armor options with ferroscale plates in 1.2 patch). Gallente also has more CPU/PG than the Minmatar suits, this is a pretty big deal. Unless you're 100% set on doing knife work, I recommend the gallente suits. If you have less than 8 mill SP....don't bother going for proto. Core skills and weapon skills are much more important. To start, get an ADV (level 3) in one of the light frames. I prefer Gallente as a Shotgunner, Minmatar for Nova Knives (for the racial bonus eventually). Frames are good to start in for scouts. The racial bonuses just aren't that great (until they fix electronic warfare) A few words on Electronic Warfare: essentially the minimap and staying off of it and keeping reds on it. Passive scanning (ie your personal 360 degree radar that is always on) kinda really sucks now. It's 10 meters. 10. Gallente racial suits gets a bonus that makes that 15 meters at proto. Still pretty useless. Modules can bring it out to around 20-25 meters. Better but now you put in around 2 mill SP into skills and modules. Not really worth it to begin with. Very much in the luxury category. Profile dampeners are similarly not very useful. Don't bother unless you have SP to burn. Sample 4 mill SP scout: Skills as follows: Dropsuit Command 2 racial light FRAME 3 (doesn't matter which right now but we need advanced for the CPU/PG) Dropsuit Upgrades 2 Dropsuit Armor Upgrades 5 Dropsuit Shield Upgrades 5 Dropsuit Shield extender 5 Dropsuit Core upgrades 3 Electronics 3 Uplinks 1 Engineering 1/2 (should you want higher level uplinks 3) Nanocircuitry 1 (for your av fits so you can add a nanohive that isnt total crap) Weaponry 3 Explosives 1 Grenades 1 Light Weapon ops 4 Shotgun ops 4 Your fit is as follows: ADV dropsuit (gallente or minmatar doesn't matter) 2x complex shield extenders K5 specialist shotgun (if you run out of ammo consider that a job well done, you've survived far longer than most people in scout suits) Locus Grenade (or AV depends on the fit you are making and the situation on the field) Militia cardiac reg or Militia kin cats (cardiac for uplink fit, kin cat for scanner) STD uplink or Stable active scanner Scouts can be a force of nature in the right situations. Figure out what the right situation is and you can too can receive bundles of hate mail. Next priority for this character would be to get electronics to 4. Then move to using a CRG-3 shotgun, this reduces your cost/suit significantly. Then, Shotgun ops to 5 and proficiency 1-2. Dropsuit upgrades to 4 and start into biotics. Then, kin cats to 1 and cardiac reg to 1. Kin Cats save lives, boost this skill to 3 when you can, enhanced kin cats are lovely, complex is just F*ing awesome.. A word on Cost. Running scout suits shouldn't be expensive, because let's be honest, we die A LOT. And that's okay. Just have some super cheap fittings that you can use when you've died 6 times in your nice fitting. Also, if you can get the racial SCOUT suits they actually are significantly cheaper than the FRAME suits. My ADV scout suit with complex shields and CRG-3 costs me 27-30K a pop, the same frame fitting would be around 36-39K. That ~10K ISK difference adds up quickly. Sidearms are great. Flaylocks and mass drivers me off daily. But for this guide we assume you don't go in for sidearms. You can go for a sidearm but most overlap the range of your shotgun**. Flaylock being the exception, ish. For my suits and fittings, I'm tight on CPU already even not using that sidearm slot so I generally don't bother. It's a personal preference thing.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 356	Posted - 2013.08.12 18:23:00 - [2] - Quote Sample 1.5 mill scout skills and fitting This was recommended to be added as a 1 mill sp guide. However, as I was trying to make it....I couldn't make something to my satisfaction. So here it is, the 1.5 mill sp guide. Skills as follows: Dropsuit Command 2 Gallente light FRAME 3 (could go minmatar but we need CPU and Gallente has more fitting available) Dropsuit Upgrades 2 Dropsuit Armor Upgrades 3 Dropsuit Shield Upgrades 3 Dropsuit Shield extender 3 Dropsuit Core upgrades 3 Nanocircuitry 1 Weaponry 3 Explosives 1 Grenades 1 Light Weapon ops 4 Shotgun ops 3 for a total of 1.51 mill SP Your fit is as follows: ADV dropsuit (gallente light frame G/1) 2x enhanced shield extenders CRG-3 shotgun Locus Grenade (or AV depends on the fit you are making and the situation on the field) Militia cardiac reg Militia kin cats STD nanohive Upgrades should be electronics to lvl 2 and engineering to lvl 2 ASAP and drop uplinks to 1. Then you can switch out your nanohive for the WP machine known as the drop uplink. Then focus on shield and armor upgrades and extenders. Follow the guide then for the rest of the skills. You are squishy in this, only 300 total HP, but you also have some decent damage potential. Actually as much as I have in my fit at 8.5 mill sp (I still use the CRG-3 for everything, or a K5 specialist). Everything else I've spent has been on making myself survive longer. Soon I might get proto suits and start to fit duvolle specialist for special occasions but that's about 3 months out if you're using this fit. You just have to be sneakier with this fit. It is the "Thinking Man's Suit" because if you're not thinking, you're dead. Tactics to follow this post.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 356	Posted - 2013.08.12 18:24:00 - [3] - Quote Tactics The first thing you should notice about scout suits is....they have terrible HP and look like ** on paper. Then you take one for a spin and you're like. I'M FLYING!?!?!? You move much faster than other classes. This mobility is your saving grace as a scout. If you're not sprinting you're doing it wrong. As a scout you need to be thinking constantly. Always reevaluating the situation. Should I retreat? Is that a heavy? Does he notice me or can I shotgun his face from behind? Woops he turned, RUN!!!!! Force the encounter on YOUR terms. NEVER slug it out face to face. That's a quick ticket to clone heaven/hell (did you do good or did you just waste that clone?) Even the best of us slip up sometimes in the heat of battle, but they realize that they fed up and cool off. Then they do something tricksy and mess the entire red team up. Run fast, strafe fast. Use your grenades tactically and let people come to you (pop out around a corner and show yourself, then duck back. 7/10 somebody will round the corner close and you can OHK. 3/10 they round widely and you have to have a grenade ready to make them think twice about coming after you) Practice using the shotgun. You will get better. Your first time using it, you'll probably suck, a lot, like really. In charged situations it's hard to keep your cool and line up the reticle while still maintaining a good counter strafe (you move left when they move right and vice versa). Don't even think about head shots. Center mass is your target. KEEP MOVING AT ALL TIMES. If you're hacking, move side to side. If you're getting reps or resupply circle strafe. BUT KEEP MOVING. One sniper shot is all it takes (and is frustrating as hell....). Finding the effective range takes practice as well. Don't be afraid to shoot even if they're a little far, at least it makes them think about their health bar and not yours. 19 times out of 20 you'll be useless in front lines. TAR/AR/SR will tear you to shreds at any distance. Get out of sight and work your way around or go for stragglers/singletons. They are your bread and butter. Heavies should always scare you. If you catch them unawares then you have a chance but it will take b/w 2-3 full -on shots to kill. Assess the situation and retreat if you need to. Active scanners may or may not light you up on enemy mini-maps, hence use caution in using them while you're behind lines. Drop Uplinks are great for scouts (minus the fitting costs). Drop them in a protected area a fair ways away from active fighting. Coming in right in the middle of a fire fight is not a good thing and it won't survive for very long that way either. Drop them, drop them frequently, and drop them all the time. Or you know, just drop them. Your team will thank you with lots of WP (especially if you remember that the direction you drop your uplink is the direction you'll spawn in, DONT THROW THEM INTO WALLS, you know who you are....) One of the best ways to get better as a scout and to refine your tactics/strategy is to sit on the death screen and replay that last 2-3 minutes. Were you satisfied by your performance with that clone? Did you get at least one kill? Why did I die? It's easy to be trite and shout at the redberries for shooting you, it's hard to look back and say, "well I shouldn't have tried to run at the heavy yelling I'M LEE ROY JENKINS B**H!!!!!" and instead, "maybe I should have sat behind that rock until he ran past my position and then gave him the double tab to the back of the head". Which brings me to an important point. Patience. It's one of the most difficult aspects of the game. The matches seem so fast paced that it often feels like you're wasting time by not running and gunning at all times. This is not the case. By waiting for the correct opportunity you are making yourself a more effficient killing machine. Rather than getting a 1.0 K/d with 15 kills (and 15 deaths...ouch) you get yourself a 3.0 K/d with 15 kills and only 5 deaths. And you just made ISK on that match. Which you could donate to your friendly neighborhood tanker. Last thing. I'll repeat for emphasis. If you don't keep moving all the time you aren't doing the scout right. Moving and strafing is great and is not the same as running and gunning. While you wait for the heavy to waddle past do a little texas two step behind your rock and keep the snipers entertained by your beautiful and classic dance moves. Never give them a free shot. Finally, yes this is the last thing for real, I don't do sniper scouts or nova knife scouts (however nova knifes play like shotguns, but harder since you have to be closer and mobility is even more important.), sniper scouts are a thing unto themselves and have completely different tactics to follow. The general skill plan I mentioned earlier still translates well but I wouldn't recommend trying to point blank heavies with your sniper rifle....
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 357	Posted - 2013.08.12 19:38:00 - [4] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Can you put Biotic Scout guide in the title? I know I am just being nitpicky but I absolutely have no Pill Bottle skills, just the TACNET electronic ones. It's a matter of opinion right now to what degree EWAR Works Fair enough. I haven't maxxed out range enhancement yet on my proto gallente, though I can tell a difference in people showing up after I got my proto racial skills. There will be major changes in eWAR coming in 1.4 or 1.5 (can't for the life of me remember in which they mentioned the changes in TACNET) that will hopefully breathe some life into dampening and precision enhancement as well as active scanner rewards. Regardless of whether you go biotic or eWAR scout, it is my personal opinion that profile dampening and precision enhancement is a complete waste of points at this point in time. You're either a scout vs. any medium/heavy suit and never show up anyways except by line of sight or advanced+ active scanners, or you're a scout vs. a scout and you still don't show up because you both have lower profiles than your scanners can manage unless you added precision modules just for this fringe case. I don't come up against scouts that often, and when I do it comes down to who can strafe and aim better than the other guy/can I get witihin range of the nova knifer with my shotgun and still stay out of nova knife range. With that argument in mind I usually throw out the idea of building an eWAR scout because I think they don't have enough utility on the battle field....again that's just me.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 364	Posted - 2013.08.13 00:00:00 - [5] - Quote My problem with dampeners at this point is not that they don't "work" but that they are very very situational. They protect against proto scanners and MAYBE scouts that are eWAR focused. For now. I loved them in the chromosome build. Uprising not so much. My main problem is the shared LOS on TACNET. As soon as you get spotted by eye running between boxes.....that's it for your advantage. Then, your modules aren't helping you at all voidfaction's fit sounds pretty awesome actually. The utility as a killing machine seems a lot less but then again that's not really the role it's going for. I hadn't really thought of those fits mostly because I assumed all of eWAR was trash due to everything else being crapish.... With the shared vision changes coming, those fits are going to start being a lot more important and if they up the ranges on scanning then it might even be feasible on a non lame-duck fitting. Regardless, as a general guide I think it's not a good idea to go into eWar skills early (right now) and probably more important to round out other skills. Once you hit maybe 8 mill sp you can start to make the choice of biotics, eWar, or combination.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 368	Posted - 2013.08.13 01:56:00 - [6] - Quote voidfaction wrote: Driftward wrote: My problem with dampeners at this point is not that they don't "work" but that they are very very situational. They protect against proto scanners and MAYBE scouts that are eWAR focused. For now. I loved them in the chromosome build. Uprising not so much. My main problem is the shared LOS on TACNET. As soon as you get spotted by eye running between boxes.....that's it for your advantage. Then, your modules aren't helping you at all voidfaction's fit sounds pretty awesome actually. The utility as a killing machine seems a lot less but then again that's not really the role it's going for. I hadn't really thought of those fits mostly because I assumed all of eWAR was trash due to everything else being crapish.... With the shared vision changes coming, those fits are going to start being a lot more important and if they up the ranges on scanning then it might even be feasible on a non lame-duck fitting. Regardless, as a general guide I think it's not a good idea to go into eWar skills early (right now) and probably more important to round out other skills. Once you hit maybe 8 mill sp you can start to make the choice of biotics, eWar, or combination. the way i understand profile dampening and precision is when someone has line of sight on you and your dampening is low then your not put on the tacnet for all to see unless the one that sees you has higher precision so you may be spotted by the one person when your running but they are the only one that sees you. you also have the factor of hiding from scanners both passive/active. Can you source a link to a forum post that someone has done the science? As I understand it your profile has nothing to do with line of sight. Line of sight automatically makes anyone you see pop up on your squads (teams?) tacnet. Hence why I say that eWar is broken.... I haven't done any science on this but I went in on profile dampening since it's a passive and I had some extra SP to burn. I didn't find a difference. As in I would flank kill someone who was farther away from everyone but then I would have a whole squad doing a red dot hunt. This happens frequently in my experience. Of course this will all change in either a month or two
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 372	Posted - 2013.08.13 21:11:00 - [7] - Quote Yan Darn wrote: Thanks for this - confirms 'im doing it right'. Since I've been playing MLT light frames (I know, right!?) my WP and kDR have jumped considerably (I'm normally top 6 somewhere in between members of a proto-squad EDIT: scrap that just came second from bottom...) My problem is - its only when I lone wolf and use uplinks to control the sea of blue, my entire strategy is based on seeing what they are up to and either supporting or redirecting it ('hey guys I know you're having fun smashing your faces against that wall of proto at alpha/bravo but look at this shiny uplink I've placed Delta...try it...'). In a squad, well...this doesn't happen - My corp is great and I feel silly not playin with them. Now I don't have a (working) mic so that is a massive downer on playing scout in a squad, but what else am I doing wrong? The single best thing you bring up is your use of uplinks. In an ideal situation they should always control the flow of a battle and that is still your role, even in a squad. I've found that I don't work well in a squad where everyone acts as assaults. You really can't support a squad acting like that. You can be the eyes of a squad (scout) using an eWar fit or with biotics. If you scout with biotics then you need to be able to run from an engagement. Quickly. Even more important to choose your battles in that situation. Maybe try and lead a group of reds into your buddies arms. Find choke points and ambush spots and use them to your advantage. If you are looking for kills as a scout, often lone wolfing it is the only choice you can make. Point defense is also a decent strategy. If people are coming for you then they typically get closer than is comfortable for them. As in, within shotgun range. It's hard to be friendly with a swarm of super heated plasma pellets. Some of my best games were spent running between blue controlled objectives and ambushing small groups after they thought they'd cleared the area. Cheap tactics? Absolutely. Unfair? Perhaps. Effective? Completely. Why should you play by your enemies rules? If you're not using a scout's speed or eWAR advantages, then stop using a scout. Odds are another class would suit your playstyle better. Like someone said earlier in the thread, an assault shotgun is almost always superior to a scout shotgun in a head to head battle. That's why you don't go head-to-head.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 375	Posted - 2013.08.14 17:19:00 - [8] - Quote voidfaction wrote: You are right Line of sight is in no way effected by dampening or precision as stated by a post from CCP wolfman. Passive scan is the same as active scan as stated in another post by CCP wolfman. Scans will only be shared by squad in the upcoming changes. Shared vision will not. So I assume shared vision is line of sight which is the biggest problem for scouts so that will be a big help removing that but in return will require scouts to need better range and precision making the gallente suit really nice. I guess all this time it was just me not being seen and not the dampeners. Will make my life easier when shared vision is turned off and I can focus more on scan range and precision eWAR and the modules associated with them are really quite difficult to see results/changes in action. Even with chromosome it was hard to see differences in game play when I used dampeners vs. when I didn't (only in the long term across a week could you really get a feel of if a particular fit was performing better or not). They are very passive and difficult to know if they are working or not. Especially when you talk about precision enhancers or profile dampeners. Range amplifiers are a little easier to notice differences when you add modules or not. I think every scout rejoiced a little bit when Wolfman announced the changes to tacnet. I personally was doing a Tiger Woods patented fist pump. Finally gives some reason for squads to want scouts. We might actually have an important role now, even if it's passive/just scanning.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 375	Posted - 2013.08.14 21:32:00 - [9] - Quote Yan Darn wrote: TL;dr Thanks for the feedback and hope to murder you all from behind someday. Yesterday I made myself go shotgun regardless of whether Id be in a cqc situation - it's amazing how even in an open field, if the red is distracted by blues in the distance I can run almost right alongside them until I can swerve into shotgun range. Though its not something I would willingly do normally. This is my tactic for ambush mainly. And then only if I'm lone Wolfing. High risk high reward type of thing. Yan Darn wrote: I think part of my squad problems is that most Squad Leaders tend to go for that tried and true tactic of picking a central objective, capping it and then holding it. This doesn't work for me in light frame - they are clearly not designed to 'hold the line'. I'm so use to hugging the defend order normally, and I feel bad if I go harass other points or drop links to support a blue offensive/defensive action. For scouts, hugging the blue donut isn't going to be your goal, and if your squad leader doesn't understand that....find a new one or educate them on the benefits of scoutdom. You are tactical support, providing needed distractions and tactical insertion oppurtunities aka uplinks. (chuckle...tactical insertions....) Yan Darn wrote: Thanks for the feedback - I've just got Biotics 5, once I get armour and shield upgrades from 4 to 5, there will hopefully be news on new suit bonuses and hopefully racial symmetry and I can skill into scout suits without fear. If not I'm thinking hacking lv5 - but that looks like a painful grind. Im thinking that before weapon proficiencies, but I dunno....I like killing people but I love all the other things a scout can (potentially) do even more. Last question - is it me or is skirmish pretty much the mode for scouts? I only do ambush when practicing actual combat skills (strafe/shotgun - bunny hopping productively etc.) - domination though...depends on the map I guess - its hard to strike where the enemy is not when there is only one objective. Skirmish is probably to most diverse game mode we have at the moment. It allows for a greater number of playstyles than the other modes do. In that respect, yes, skirmish is the best mode for scouts. But that doesn't mean that you can't go apeshit on the other two modes either. You might just have to be more creative in your methodology for them. As far as skills go, systems hacking (even lvl 3) is AWESOME, can't be overstated. Rather than straight maxing that alone though....split between kin cats, cardiac regs, and systems hacking all to level 3. All worth the investment and are useful at level 3. Then you can go to maxxing those out. Just gets you more utility faster.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 427	Posted - 2013.08.29 15:55:00 - [10] - Quote Note about things I've come across lately. Remote explosives. F*** YEAH. The most cheap freaking kills I've ever gotten. I feel dirty every time I use them, but damn those double and triple kills are satisfying. You need explosives to 3 and only demolitions 1. Damage doesn't scale with tier on RE's so the only advantage to going adv and proto RE's is that you can carry more and have more active at once. EWAR skills may become all the rage once 1.4 hits. Be prepared and start in on range amplification and profile dampening. Getting to level 3 in each can give a significant boost to both range (30% ie to 13m, or if you run gallente and have proto racial, ~20 m) as well as to dampening (can shield you from std active scanners, but not adv or proto as well as most passive scanning)

Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 499	Posted - 2013.10.28 14:45:00 - [11] - Quote Kahn Zo wrote: need to bump this. Great info. Going to help me out quite a bit. Updates? Soon (tm). Though honestly not a whole lot has changed other than perhaps how I view armor and buffer fitting. Maybe a few words on eWAR. I'll work on it. Soonish.