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Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
520
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Don't be fooled into it, most weapons at ADV are good enough. Additionally, when you are running a squad of six, that extra damage you might get from speccing is only a drop in the bucket. The only two weapons I consider beneficial to spec into with the current meta are swarm launchers and grenades. All the SP you save by not going proto can go into your core and tanking skills, easily putting your suits in the 700-900 hp range. That +4% -> +15% dmg you get for the proto gun or an additional 300% hp?
Most dropsuits at adv are good enough too, and with the sp you save you could get both specialties to adv on the side! You would become the generalist Monster. Adaptable to anything. Nerf Proof. Well balanced and knowledgeable in all weapons and fittings, allowing you to think up counters to specialists that they couldn't dream of due to their limited experience with other weapons.
Are you a generalist? |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
877
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Good luck with that |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
2602
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
I specced into proto LR's so I could use my ADV LR with a proficiency damage bonus.
****'s great. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
520
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:... use my ADV LR ...
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calvin b
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
236
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Heavy, assault, Logi and sniper so far. Proto for three of the four, assault I have advance for that one. Not sure what I am going to skill into next so I am saving the SP. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
877
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
I know guys who went this route. They complain NONSTOP about not being able to kill and/or getting killed too much.
It's literally the worst thing you can do in this game if you ever want to be good at it. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
708
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
you don't specialize to to oepration 5 for proto I do it for the specialization skill that gives me an extra 15% damage. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1609
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
As a 'specialist' I have to say... I enjoy mowing down generalists in pubs when I play. Not sure what this 'lie' is. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
520
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I know guys who went this route. They complain NONSTOP about not being able to kill and/or getting killed too much.
It's literally the worst thing you can do in this game if you ever want to be good at it. If you are running solo, then by all means spec proto, you absolutely need to be able to take all the damage you can to survive, but if you are running in a squad, proto or adv, it doesn't really matter. |
ratamaq doc
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
41
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Don't be fooled into it, most weapons at ADV are good enough. Additionally, when you are running a squad of six, that extra damage you might get from speccing is only a drop in the bucket. The only two weapons I consider beneficial to spec into with the current meta are swarm launchers and grenades. All the SP you save by not going proto can go into your core and tanking skills, easily putting your suits in the 700-900 hp range. That +4% -> +15% dmg you get for the proto gun or an additional 300% hp?
Most dropsuits at adv are good enough too, and with the sp you save you could get both specialties to adv on the side! You would become the generalist Monster. Adaptable to anything. Nerf Proof. Well balanced and knowledgeable in all weapons and fittings, allowing you to think up counters to specialists that they couldn't dream of due to their limited experience with other weapons.
Are you a generalist?
Yes I am. |
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Poplo Furuya
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
629
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
You're looking at the wrong things.
Observe Shield Extenders. Their growth is 22/33/66 with a passive boost from the skill itself. Proto performs to triple the standard of basic, double that of enhanced.
Grenades get both splash radius increase and a large damage boost.
Protosuits get more fittings and slots to make use of the aforementioned Extenders.
...wait, you even mentioned not pooling it all in weapons in favour of tanking now that I reread it. What you advocate there -is- a specialisation, just one that pays off to a ridiculous degree as opposed to one with a more moderate payoff.
Point undermined in your own post, then? |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1212
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I know guys who went this route. They complain NONSTOP about not being able to kill and/or getting killed too much.
It's literally the worst thing you can do in this game if you ever want to be good at it. If you are running solo, then by all means spec proto, you absolutely need to be able to take all the damage you can to survive, but if you are running in a squad, proto or adv, it doesn't really matter.
Right up until its a squad vs squad fight where they are rocking proto and you are not. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
522
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:As a 'specialist' I have to say... I enjoy mowing down generalists in pubs when I play. Not sure what this 'lie' is. Solo generalists not equal to a squad of generalists. They get mowed down, swap to their next suit choice (which usually counters whatever killed them) and then turn the tides. Specialists have to rely on their specialty in all situations. CqC ARs killing you? Bring a squad of cqc mass drivers/ hmgs / shot-guns (lol, jk).
Snipers got you down? A squad of tacs should put an end to that.
vehicles everywhere? Forge-guns / swarms'll put an end to that.
They can not only do it all, they can do it all well They may not be +15% better than someone with the same weapon, but they can certainly come back with the weapon that drastically counters whatever is hitting them. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1142
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Don't be fooled into it, most weapons at ADV are good enough. Additionally, when you are running a squad of six, that extra damage you might get from speccing is only a drop in the bucket. The only two weapons I consider beneficial to spec into with the current meta are swarm launchers and grenades. All the SP you save by not going proto can go into your core and tanking skills, easily putting your suits in the 700-900 hp range. That +4% -> +15% dmg you get for the proto gun or an additional 300% hp?
Most dropsuits at adv are good enough too, and with the sp you save you could get both specialties to adv on the side! You would become the generalist Monster. Adaptable to anything. Nerf Proof. Well balanced and knowledgeable in all weapons and fittings, allowing you to think up counters to specialists that they couldn't dream of due to their limited experience with other weapons.
Are you a generalist?
Or you could skill into the lot. |
Mamertine Son
R.E.B.E.L.S
91
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
thanks for the advice, I'll keep it in mind. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
522
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Poplo Furuya wrote:You're looking at the wrong things.
Observe Shield Extenders. Their growth is 22/33/66 with a passive boost from the skill itself. Proto performs to triple the standard of basic, double that of enhanced.
Grenades get both splash radius increase and a large damage boost.
Protosuits get more fittings and slots to make use of the aforementioned Extenders.
...wait, you even mentioned not pooling it all in weapons in favour of tanking now that I reread it. What you advocate there -is- a specialisation, just one that pays off to a ridiculous degree as opposed to one with a more moderate payoff.
Point undermined in your own post, then?
Correct in a way, mind you. I am speaking of weapon specialization, or suit specialization. Training core-skills isn't a specialization as those modules and bonuses apply to all suits. |
Lillica Deathdealer
Mango and Friends
83
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Haven't you heard? What you describe is the AR. Adaptable to everything. Almost every range covered. One thing to invest in. Nerf proof. |
Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
172
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I know guys who went this route. They complain NONSTOP about not being able to kill and/or getting killed too much.
It's literally the worst thing you can do in this game if you ever want to be good at it. If you are running solo, then by all means spec proto, you absolutely need to be able to take all the damage you can to survive, but if you are running in a squad, proto or adv, it doesn't really matter.
Please take that logic and face my guys. I promise you that you'll be redlined 10 out of 10 times. This goes for any competent squad out there. |
Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
172
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mamertine Son wrote:thanks for the advice, I'll keep it in mind.
This is not good advice... |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1611
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:As a 'specialist' I have to say... I enjoy mowing down generalists in pubs when I play. Not sure what this 'lie' is. Solo generalists not equal to a squad of generalists. They get mowed down, swap to their next suit choice (which usually counters whatever killed them) and then turn the tides. Specialists have to rely on their specialty in all situations. CqC ARs killing you? Bring a squad of cqc mass drivers/ hmgs / shot-guns (lol, jk). Snipers got you down? A squad of tacs should put an end to that. vehicles everywhere? Forge-guns / swarms'll put an end to that. They can not only do it all, they can do it all well They may not be +15% better than someone with the same weapon, but they can certainly come back with the weapon that drastically counters whatever is hitting them.
I do have to say... the one things that sucks about specializing is that you get bored playing the same class over and over.. but you can't really play competitively unless you have a load out that is competitive.
Best bet is to specialize in ARs so you have a good fall back and then branch out once you have ARs reasonably maxed out (Op5, SS5, Pro5, AC4, RR3, FO3)
Then you can start to play around with other weapons getting just Op5 and maybe Pro1 or Pro2. Its the reason 90% of people use ARs, you need a good fall back before you can branch out and we're still in the early stages of SP development where people are working on their ARs.
I'm still working on my Logi suit and I will be past 20 million SP before I am 'done' with my logi build... equipment and core upgrade skills sucks down so much SP its not even funny. |
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Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
32
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Posted - 2013.08.12 17:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
For my main weapon (AR) I went to level 5, but for most things (equipment, nades, logi dropsuit, other weapons) I have stuck at level 3 for about 3 months now, believing pretty much the same as you. I never have anything to complain about, I spent my SP in a way that suits me and does not hinder my effectiveness regardless of what other people do with their SP. I use tactical thinking and awareness to best my opponents instead of replying solely on my gear.
I have great fun playing DUST and am always eager to get back on, not crying myself to sleep at night because of protostompers, imbalances or bad experiences. Win some, lose some. Kill some, die some. |
Billi Gene
The Southern Legion
250
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 18:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Poplo Furuya wrote:You're looking at the wrong things.
Observe Shield Extenders. Their growth is 22/33/66 with a passive boost from the skill itself. Proto performs to triple the standard of basic, double that of enhanced.
Grenades get both splash radius increase and a large damage boost.
Protosuits get more fittings and slots to make use of the aforementioned Extenders.
...wait, you even mentioned not pooling it all in weapons in favour of tanking now that I reread it. What you advocate there -is- a specialisation, just one that pays off to a ridiculous degree as opposed to one with a more moderate payoff.
Point undermined in your own post, then?
i'd consider shield extension as a core skill, meaning that no matter what your suit or weapon choice, it will always benefit you.
for newberries, there is a very real choice of either going the specialist route with a set skill path, or trying to max out as many core skills as possible before settling on any skill path.
the later is the wiser option in my mind, and i have a starter fit only newby alt to test it out on. +25% base armor and shield, cpu and PG,... dampening 5 , precision 5 , handheld weapon upgrades 5 ...
because I'm in starter fits, I'm next to worthless when you kill me, it costs me Nothing when i do die, and in most cases people assume I'm an easy kill.... plenty of lols to be had, especially when i play bait/lure for an ambush .
I woudnt recommend either path, but would say that both are feasible, certainly up to the =/= 4 million SP mark. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 18:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:As a 'specialist' I have to say... I enjoy mowing down generalists in pubs when I play. Not sure what this 'lie' is. Solo generalists not equal to a squad of generalists. They get mowed down, swap to their next suit choice (which usually counters whatever killed them) and then turn the tides. Specialists have to rely on their specialty in all situations. CqC ARs killing you? Bring a squad of cqc mass drivers/ hmgs / shot-guns (lol, jk). Snipers got you down? A squad of tacs should put an end to that. vehicles everywhere? Forge-guns / swarms'll put an end to that. They can not only do it all, they can do it all well They may not be +15% better than someone with the same weapon, but they can certainly come back with the weapon that drastically counters whatever is hitting them. I kind of get the direction you're coming from, but it's a bit too broad. i.e, you're wrong :-( ... but if you like being able to play lots of roles and that makes the game fun for you, then do it! No one will stop you. Otherwise... "Generalist" implies a great deal of unnecessary diversity.
You basically need to SPECIALIZE in SPECIFIC roles to enable adaptation.
The direction I went was Proto Cal Logi with equipment to support any situation. Proto Assault rifle allows mid-range/CQC. Proto swarms provide an anti-vehicle option on the adv cal med frame that was required to get into logi suit. Cal Logi in a squad is a good platform for a TAC if it becomes a standoff fight, and Sniper Rifle Operation II on any suit known to man will allow moderate counter-sniper operations to commence.
My proto TAC fit dominates your non-proto laser rifle at mid-range, and a regular AR fit can deal with shotgunners. What else is there to counter? |
dday3six
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
184
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 18:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Specialization actually gives you more options because you have more slots and CPU/PG to work with. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7166
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 18:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Omni-soldiering is a specialization in flexibility. |
Poplo Furuya
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
629
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 18:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Poplo Furuya wrote:You're looking at the wrong things.
Observe Shield Extenders. Their growth is 22/33/66 with a passive boost from the skill itself. Proto performs to triple the standard of basic, double that of enhanced.
Grenades get both splash radius increase and a large damage boost.
Protosuits get more fittings and slots to make use of the aforementioned Extenders.
...wait, you even mentioned not pooling it all in weapons in favour of tanking now that I reread it. What you advocate there -is- a specialisation, just one that pays off to a ridiculous degree as opposed to one with a more moderate payoff.
Point undermined in your own post, then? Correct in a way, mind you. I am speaking of weapon specialization, or suit specialization. Training core-skills isn't a specialization as those modules and bonuses apply to all suits. Hmm, suppose there's something to that. Problem is ARs cover almost all situations very well. CQC, short, short-mid, mid. Also unlocks Tacs which can deal with mid-long. 15% extra damage from specialising in one weapon that is incredibly generalist by itself pays off in droves. It can just be used in a different manner to counter more niche weapons without the need for a fitting change.
It couldn't possibly be a more boring weapon, either.
I like specialists when what they specialise in is actually interesting. I'm also all for splitting mains into two branching specialties once the first is in a good place, gets a bit of versatility while also mixing things up for the player, keep it interesting.
From an optimisation standpoint though? All-in on Complex Extenders, Caldari suit, AR, Grenades, level 3 Regulators, 3 or 5 on Energiser. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
523
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 18:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Omni-soldiering is a specialization in flexibility. This is correct, vehicles are also included in an Omni-soldiers tool-bag. |
Billi Gene
The Southern Legion
252
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 18:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Omni-soldiering is a specialization in flexibility. This is correct, vehicles are also included in an Omni-soldiers tool-bag.
i agree, but wouldn't recommend being too serious about vehicle skills at the start... there is a lot to invest into vehicles till they start to pay off outside of single use a to b transport....unless you murder taxi *angry cat hissssssssss....evil glare* |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
525
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 18:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Omni-soldiering is a specialization in flexibility. This is correct, vehicles are also included in an Omni-soldiers tool-bag. i agree, but wouldn't recommend being too serious about vehicle skills at the start... there is a lot to invest into vehicles till they start to pay off outside of single use a to b transport....unless you murder taxi *angry cat hissssssssss....evil glare* I do my best to avoid murder taxi-ing. I'll even stop a few meters in front of a guy I could have ran over to let my gunner get him. A previous match my gunner went 46-1 while I went 0/0. He was first in the match, I was second. We were up against The Tritan industries in a pub match. |
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