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Aisha Ctarl
The Generals
EoN.
967
   |
Posted - 2013.08.08 15:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here is an analogy to show you how "easy mode" the mass driver truly is.
Let's say there is a training facility. At the facility there is an open area. In that open area there are six robots on wheels programmed to move around sporadically but also try and shoot at you (their target) with chalk sim rounds. Now lets say you have a buddy also at this training facility. He and you are about to attempt the same thing - take out the robots.
The instructor comes out and hands you an L85A2 (yeah I'm American but I like the L85), but then you turn to see your instructor hand your buddy the M32A1 grenade launcher.
He instructs you to go first.
You take out all six of the bots in record time - easy stuff, you're a good shot.
They reset the bots and now it's your buddy's turn
He shoots one grenade into the middle of the pack effectively destroying them all.
In the end, while both destroyed the target bots, one person was more "skilled" than the other. Anyone told which way to point a GL can wipe out targets due to the fact that YOU'RE SPAMMING AN AREA WITH EXPLOSIVES. You don't even have to move - just spam area and anything in the general area will be reduced to rubble.
Using the AR (or any other weapon that isn't the Mass Driver) takes some form of skill due to the fact that you have to be ACCURATE - there is no splash damage to "carry" you to acquiring a kill.
TL;DR - The Mass Driver IS NOT OP, just easy mode due to the fact that a player is spamming an area with explosives and can rely on splash damage to also do extra work to his/her advantage. |
Paran Tadec
Ancient Exiles
Negative-Feedback
1306
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 15:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:Here is an analogy to show you how "easy mode" the mass driver truly is.
Let's say there is a training facility. At the facility there is an open area. In that open area there are six robots on wheels programmed to move around sporadically but also try and shoot at you (their target) with chalk sim rounds. Now lets say you have a buddy also at this training facility. He and you are about to attempt the same thing - take out the robots.
The instructor comes out and hands you an L85A2 (yeah I'm American but I like the L85), but then you turn to see your instructor hand your buddy the M32A1 grenade launcher.
He instructs you to go first.
You take out all six of the bots in record time - easy stuff, you're a good shot.
They reset the bots and now it's your buddy's turn
He shoots one grenade into the middle of the pack effectively destroying them all.
In the end, while both destroyed the target bots, one person was more "skilled" than the other. Anyone told which way to point a GL can wipe out targets due to the fact that YOU'RE SPAMMING AN AREA WITH EXPLOSIVES. You don't even have to move - just spam area and anything in the general area will be reduced to rubble.
Using the AR (or any other weapon that isn't the Mass Driver) takes some form of skill due to the fact that you have to be ACCURATE - there is no splash damage to "carry" you to acquiring a kill.
TL;DR - The Mass Driver IS NOT OP, just easy mode due to the fact that a player is spamming an area with explosives and can rely on splash damage to also do extra work to his/her advantage.
Now lets give the robots 700 HP, where the grenade splash dmg is only 150ish |
TunRa
The Vanguardians
23
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 15:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
No wonder CCP can't get new conent, every month we have another "OP" weapon and the forums are full of negative and positive feedback on said weapon. This blocks the real feedback we should be giving to CCP about everything else. |
Aisha Ctarl
The Generals
EoN.
967
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Here is an analogy to show you how "easy mode" the mass driver truly is.
Let's say there is a training facility. At the facility there is an open area. In that open area there are six robots on wheels programmed to move around sporadically but also try and shoot at you (their target) with chalk sim rounds. Now lets say you have a buddy also at this training facility. He and you are about to attempt the same thing - take out the robots.
The instructor comes out and hands you an L85A2 (yeah I'm American but I like the L85), but then you turn to see your instructor hand your buddy the M32A1 grenade launcher.
He instructs you to go first.
You take out all six of the bots in record time - easy stuff, you're a good shot.
They reset the bots and now it's your buddy's turn
He shoots one grenade into the middle of the pack effectively destroying them all.
In the end, while both destroyed the target bots, one person was more "skilled" than the other. Anyone told which way to point a GL can wipe out targets due to the fact that YOU'RE SPAMMING AN AREA WITH EXPLOSIVES. You don't even have to move - just spam area and anything in the general area will be reduced to rubble.
Using the AR (or any other weapon that isn't the Mass Driver) takes some form of skill due to the fact that you have to be ACCURATE - there is no splash damage to "carry" you to acquiring a kill.
TL;DR - The Mass Driver IS NOT OP, just easy mode due to the fact that a player is spamming an area with explosives and can rely on splash damage to also do extra work to his/her advantage. Logic, if damage is being done, then it is a hit, direct or splash. Now lets give the robots 700 HP, where the grenade splash dmg is only 150ish
150 times 6 is 900........yeah and don't just bump up the base HP to defend yourself.
|
Zero Notion
Red Star Jr.
EoN.
163
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
TunRa wrote:No wonder CCP can't get new conent, every month we have another "OP" weapon and the forums are full of negative and positive feedback on said weapon. This blocks the real feedback we should be giving to CCP about everything else.
I'm sure CCP has their own methodology and statistics software that monitors the game to harvest data and compares it with the feedback on the forums. I don't think they'll make adjustments to mechanics purely based on what is produced on the forums that's not backed up by actual data. |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
927
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think the main problem of most complaining about the MD comes from thee things 1: comparing the MD & the AR 2: forgetting what the MD is (a mid range anti infantry area of denial weapon) and 3: engaging the weapon in either it's optimal range or staying somewhere when you know that the splash can hit you (alot of my kills) then wondering why you died....... on ps3 so excuse the eyestrain :3 just an opinion |
Justin Tymes
Raymond James Corp
286
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Here is an analogy to show you how "easy mode" the mass driver truly is.
Let's say there is a training facility. At the facility there is an open area. In that open area there are six robots on wheels programmed to move around sporadically but also try and shoot at you (their target) with chalk sim rounds. Now lets say you have a buddy also at this training facility. He and you are about to attempt the same thing - take out the robots.
The instructor comes out and hands you an L85A2 (yeah I'm American but I like the L85), but then you turn to see your instructor hand your buddy the M32A1 grenade launcher.
He instructs you to go first.
You take out all six of the bots in record time - easy stuff, you're a good shot.
They reset the bots and now it's your buddy's turn
He shoots one grenade into the middle of the pack effectively destroying them all.
In the end, while both destroyed the target bots, one person was more "skilled" than the other. Anyone told which way to point a GL can wipe out targets due to the fact that YOU'RE SPAMMING AN AREA WITH EXPLOSIVES. You don't even have to move - just spam area and anything in the general area will be reduced to rubble.
Using the AR (or any other weapon that isn't the Mass Driver) takes some form of skill due to the fact that you have to be ACCURATE - there is no splash damage to "carry" you to acquiring a kill.
TL;DR - The Mass Driver IS NOT OP, just easy mode due to the fact that a player is spamming an area with explosives and can rely on splash damage to also do extra work to his/her advantage. Logic, if damage is being done, then it is a hit, direct or splash. Now lets give the robots 700 HP, where the grenade splash dmg is only 150ish 150 times 6 is 900........yeah and don't just bump up the base HP to defend yourself.
It takes an entire clip to take down a Cal Assault with Proto Freedom, with Boundless Assault forget it. If you cant out DPS or at least get cover by then, you need to get better. |
Aquinarius Zoltanus
0uter.Heaven
EoN.
278
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zero Notion wrote:TunRa wrote:No wonder CCP can't get new conent, every month we have another "OP" weapon and the forums are full of negative and positive feedback on said weapon. This blocks the real feedback we should be giving to CCP about everything else. I'm sure CCP has their own methodology and statistics software that monitors the game to harvest data and compares it with the feedback on the forums. I don't think they'll make adjustments to mechanics purely based on what is produced on the forums that's not backed up by actual data.
While this is probably true, TunRa's point still stands that we could be giving feedback on and discussing various other things in the game rather than just focusing on one or two specific weapons at a time. |
low genius
the sound of freedom
Renegade Alliance
261
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:Here is an analogy to show you how "easy mode" the mass driver truly is.
Let's say there is a training facility. At the facility there is an open area. In that open area there are six robots on wheels programmed to move around sporadically but also try and shoot at you (their target) with chalk sim rounds. Now lets say you have a buddy also at this training facility. He and you are about to attempt the same thing - take out the robots.
The instructor comes out and hands you an L85A2 (yeah I'm American but I like the L85), but then you turn to see your instructor hand your buddy the M32A1 grenade launcher.
He instructs you to go first.
You take out all six of the bots in record time - easy stuff, you're a good shot.
They reset the bots and now it's your buddy's turn
He shoots one grenade into the middle of the pack effectively destroying them all.
In the end, while both destroyed the target bots, one person was more "skilled" than the other. Anyone told which way to point a GL can wipe out targets due to the fact that YOU'RE SPAMMING AN AREA WITH EXPLOSIVES. You don't even have to move - just spam area and anything in the general area will be reduced to rubble.
Using the AR (or any other weapon that isn't the Mass Driver) takes some form of skill due to the fact that you have to be ACCURATE - there is no splash damage to "carry" you to acquiring a kill.
TL;DR - The Mass Driver IS NOT OP, just easy mode due to the fact that a player is spamming an area with explosives and can rely on splash damage to also do extra work to his/her advantage.
sad, really.
|
XeroTheBigBoss
TeamPlayers
EoN.
903
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:I think the main problem of most complaining about the MD comes from thee things 1: comparing the MD & the AR 2: forgetting what the MD is (a mid range anti infantry area of denial weapon) and 3: engaging the weapon in either it's optimal range or staying somewhere when you know that the splash can hit you (alot of my kills) then wondering why you died....... on ps3 so excuse the eyestrain :3 just an opinion
The Mass Driver works EXTREMELY well in CqC... That's how I used it. |
|
|
XeroTheBigBoss
TeamPlayers
EoN.
903
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote:Zero Notion wrote:TunRa wrote:No wonder CCP can't get new conent, every month we have another "OP" weapon and the forums are full of negative and positive feedback on said weapon. This blocks the real feedback we should be giving to CCP about everything else. I'm sure CCP has their own methodology and statistics software that monitors the game to harvest data and compares it with the feedback on the forums. I don't think they'll make adjustments to mechanics purely based on what is produced on the forums that's not backed up by actual data. While this is probably true, TunRa's point still stands that we could be giving feedback on and discussing various other things in the game rather than just focusing on one or two specific weapons at a time.
Ignoring the problem is NEVER the right thing to do. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
855
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Here is an analogy to show you how "easy mode" the mass driver truly is.
Let's say there is a training facility. At the facility there is an open area. In that open area there are six robots on wheels programmed to move around sporadically but also try and shoot at you (their target) with chalk sim rounds. Now lets say you have a buddy also at this training facility. He and you are about to attempt the same thing - take out the robots.
The instructor comes out and hands you an L85A2 (yeah I'm American but I like the L85), but then you turn to see your instructor hand your buddy the M32A1 grenade launcher.
He instructs you to go first.
You take out all six of the bots in record time - easy stuff, you're a good shot.
They reset the bots and now it's your buddy's turn
He shoots one grenade into the middle of the pack effectively destroying them all.
In the end, while both destroyed the target bots, one person was more "skilled" than the other. Anyone told which way to point a GL can wipe out targets due to the fact that YOU'RE SPAMMING AN AREA WITH EXPLOSIVES. You don't even have to move - just spam area and anything in the general area will be reduced to rubble.
Using the AR (or any other weapon that isn't the Mass Driver) takes some form of skill due to the fact that you have to be ACCURATE - there is no splash damage to "carry" you to acquiring a kill.
TL;DR - The Mass Driver IS NOT OP, just easy mode due to the fact that a player is spamming an area with explosives and can rely on splash damage to also do extra work to his/her advantage. Logic, if damage is being done, then it is a hit, direct or splash. Now lets give the robots 700 HP, where the grenade splash dmg is only 150ish
If you know you are facing a MD why would you enter an open area that he is guarding?
Why are you grouped up tight enough where he can put damage on the entire group with single shots?
The MD has too big of a splash radius right now. That is the problem. I think nerfing it down on the Freedom to 4.4 WITH skills instead of skills on top of 4.4 would solve the problem. That extra 1.1 meters is huge. That's the difference in you taking damage behind cover or not.
But I still think it's a tactics issue. With the flaylocks there was no way to escape it's damage because the ROF was so fast. If I catch someone with a flux and get a MD round on them at the right time, I can make them disappear in an instant. But this RARELY happens in PC against top flight players.
Not just a tactics issue, but there is little variety in the game right now. There aren't a ton of heavies with HMG at the moment and they aren't effective against MD users anyway. I think one of the best things to counter a group of MDs would be a group of fast moving scouts/assaults with shotguns, nova knives, flaylocks, etc. that can get in close. In tight spots a MD user being charged by a these types of players will do some damage to himself. If they are a group of MD users they may end up killing each other while panicking trying to kill the fast movers bouncing around them.
This is the part of PC that I love. When you get a sense of what the strengths of the enemy are you try and come up with ways to beat it. I understand where all the hyper competitive FPS guys are coming from, but I enjoy the variety and the endless options available. The frustration we all have is due to the lack of racial variants and proper balance.
The frustration with the MD is valid. But I don't think it's extremely OP or anything. Just nerf the splash radius a bit and see if it helps. |
XeroTheBigBoss
TeamPlayers
EoN.
903
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Here is an analogy to show you how "easy mode" the mass driver truly is.
Let's say there is a training facility. At the facility there is an open area. In that open area there are six robots on wheels programmed to move around sporadically but also try and shoot at you (their target) with chalk sim rounds. Now lets say you have a buddy also at this training facility. He and you are about to attempt the same thing - take out the robots.
The instructor comes out and hands you an L85A2 (yeah I'm American but I like the L85), but then you turn to see your instructor hand your buddy the M32A1 grenade launcher.
He instructs you to go first.
You take out all six of the bots in record time - easy stuff, you're a good shot.
They reset the bots and now it's your buddy's turn
He shoots one grenade into the middle of the pack effectively destroying them all.
In the end, while both destroyed the target bots, one person was more "skilled" than the other. Anyone told which way to point a GL can wipe out targets due to the fact that YOU'RE SPAMMING AN AREA WITH EXPLOSIVES. You don't even have to move - just spam area and anything in the general area will be reduced to rubble.
Using the AR (or any other weapon that isn't the Mass Driver) takes some form of skill due to the fact that you have to be ACCURATE - there is no splash damage to "carry" you to acquiring a kill.
TL;DR - The Mass Driver IS NOT OP, just easy mode due to the fact that a player is spamming an area with explosives and can rely on splash damage to also do extra work to his/her advantage. Logic, if damage is being done, then it is a hit, direct or splash. Now lets give the robots 700 HP, where the grenade splash dmg is only 150ish If you know you are facing a MD why would you enter an open area that he is guarding? Why are you grouped up tight enough where he can put damage on the entire group with single shots? The MD has too big of a splash radius right now. That is the problem. I think nerfing it down on the Freedom to 4.4 WITH skills instead of skills on top of 4.4 would solve the problem. That extra 1.1 meters is huge. That's the difference in you taking damage behind cover or not. But I still think it's a tactics issue. With the flaylocks there was no way to escape it's damage because the ROF was so fast. If I catch someone with a flux and get a MD round on them at the right time, I can make them disappear in an instant. But this RARELY happens in PC against top flight players. Not just a tactics issue, but there is little variety in the game right now. There aren't a ton of heavies with HMG at the moment and they aren't effective against MD users anyway. I think one of the best things to counter a group of MDs would be a group of fast moving scouts/assaults with shotguns, nova knives, flaylocks, etc. that can get in close. In tight spots a MD user being charged by a these types of players will do some damage to himself. If they are a group of MD users they may end up killing each other while panicking trying to kill the fast movers bouncing around them. This is the part of PC that I love. When you get a sense of what the strengths of the enemy are you try and come up with ways to beat it. I understand where all the hyper competitive FPS guys are coming from, but I enjoy the variety and the endless options available. The frustration we all have is due to the lack of racial variants and proper balance. The frustration with the MD is valid. But I don't think it's extremely OP or anything. Just nerf the splash radius a bit and see if it helps.
I agree with nerfing the splash damage. However when people use it in CqC how is that a nerf? I mean it is so simple to use MD like it's a shotgun. It's like a shotgun where you don't have to land hits on the target. That's how I used it in my demonstration. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1480
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Here is an analogy to show you how "easy mode" the mass driver truly is.
Let's say there is a training facility. At the facility there is an open area. In that open area there are six robots on wheels programmed to move around sporadically but also try and shoot at you (their target) with chalk sim rounds. Now lets say you have a buddy also at this training facility. He and you are about to attempt the same thing - take out the robots.
The instructor comes out and hands you an L85A2 (yeah I'm American but I like the L85), but then you turn to see your instructor hand your buddy the M32A1 grenade launcher.
He instructs you to go first.
You take out all six of the bots in record time - easy stuff, you're a good shot.
They reset the bots and now it's your buddy's turn
He shoots one grenade into the middle of the pack effectively destroying them all.
In the end, while both destroyed the target bots, one person was more "skilled" than the other. Anyone told which way to point a GL can wipe out targets due to the fact that YOU'RE SPAMMING AN AREA WITH EXPLOSIVES. You don't even have to move - just spam area and anything in the general area will be reduced to rubble.
Using the AR (or any other weapon that isn't the Mass Driver) takes some form of skill due to the fact that you have to be ACCURATE - there is no splash damage to "carry" you to acquiring a kill.
TL;DR - The Mass Driver IS NOT OP, just easy mode due to the fact that a player is spamming an area with explosives and can rely on splash damage to also do extra work to his/her advantage. Logic, if damage is being done, then it is a hit, direct or splash. Now lets give the robots 700 HP, where the grenade splash dmg is only 150ish If you know you are facing a MD why would you enter an open area that he is guarding? Why are you grouped up tight enough where he can put damage on the entire group with single shots? The MD has too big of a splash radius right now. That is the problem. I think nerfing it down on the Freedom to 4.4 WITH skills instead of skills on top of 4.4 would solve the problem. That extra 1.1 meters is huge. That's the difference in you taking damage behind cover or not. But I still think it's a tactics issue. With the flaylocks there was no way to escape it's damage because the ROF was so fast. If I catch someone with a flux and get a MD round on them at the right time, I can make them disappear in an instant. But this RARELY happens in PC against top flight players. Not just a tactics issue, but there is little variety in the game right now. There aren't a ton of heavies with HMG at the moment and they aren't effective against MD users anyway. I think one of the best things to counter a group of MDs would be a group of fast moving scouts/assaults with shotguns, nova knives, flaylocks, etc. that can get in close. In tight spots a MD user being charged by a these types of players will do some damage to himself. If they are a group of MD users they may end up killing each other while panicking trying to kill the fast movers bouncing around them. This is the part of PC that I love. When you get a sense of what the strengths of the enemy are you try and come up with ways to beat it. I understand where all the hyper competitive FPS guys are coming from, but I enjoy the variety and the endless options available. The frustration we all have is due to the lack of racial variants and proper balance. The frustration with the MD is valid. But I don't think it's extremely OP or anything. Just nerf the splash radius a bit and see if it helps. I agree with nerfing the splash damage. However when people use it in CqC how is that a nerf? I mean it is so simple to use MD like it's a shotgun. It's like a shotgun where you don't have to land hits on the target. That's how I used it in my demonstration.
Xero, dream on. The MD won't be getting a nerf. That's because it's not OP. I know you myopic AR users can't see that, but, well, the killfeed doesn't lie. |
Aquinarius Zoltanus
0uter.Heaven
EoN.
279
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Oh no, Xero is here to spread his BS, everybody run!
No, actually just ignore him. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
855
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote:I think the main problem of most complaining about the MD comes from thee things 1: comparing the MD & the AR 2: forgetting what the MD is (a mid range anti infantry area of denial weapon) and 3: engaging the weapon in either it's optimal range or staying somewhere when you know that the splash can hit you (alot of my kills) then wondering why you died....... on ps3 so excuse the eyestrain :3 just an opinion The Mass Driver works EXTREMELY well in CqC... That's how I used it.
It does and I think that is where it should work well in my opinion. I think getting up high with a MD and raining down from above is cheap and boring. I can't stand doing it.
Out of the 10,000 or so kills I've gotten with the MD I'd say 99% of them have been in CqC or open ground.
If I'm in a pub and it's only my squad fighting I'll get up high to get some cheap kills.
But I'm bored with the MD. I've been using it too long. Now that I'm done with it it's finally seen as OP. I played with the damn thing completely broken for two months. It was never viewed in a favorable fashion by the "elites", but it sucks seeing it dragged through the mud right now.
I actually warned against buffing the splash radius back to chromosome levels before they fixed the hit detection. My prediction has come true. It's too easy with the splash radius where it's at. |
XeroTheBigBoss
TeamPlayers
EoN.
903
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Here is an analogy to show you how "easy mode" the mass driver truly is.
Let's say there is a training facility. At the facility there is an open area. In that open area there are six robots on wheels programmed to move around sporadically but also try and shoot at you (their target) with chalk sim rounds. Now lets say you have a buddy also at this training facility. He and you are about to attempt the same thing - take out the robots.
The instructor comes out and hands you an L85A2 (yeah I'm American but I like the L85), but then you turn to see your instructor hand your buddy the M32A1 grenade launcher.
He instructs you to go first.
You take out all six of the bots in record time - easy stuff, you're a good shot.
They reset the bots and now it's your buddy's turn
He shoots one grenade into the middle of the pack effectively destroying them all.
In the end, while both destroyed the target bots, one person was more "skilled" than the other. Anyone told which way to point a GL can wipe out targets due to the fact that YOU'RE SPAMMING AN AREA WITH EXPLOSIVES. You don't even have to move - just spam area and anything in the general area will be reduced to rubble.
Using the AR (or any other weapon that isn't the Mass Driver) takes some form of skill due to the fact that you have to be ACCURATE - there is no splash damage to "carry" you to acquiring a kill.
TL;DR - The Mass Driver IS NOT OP, just easy mode due to the fact that a player is spamming an area with explosives and can rely on splash damage to also do extra work to his/her advantage. Logic, if damage is being done, then it is a hit, direct or splash. Now lets give the robots 700 HP, where the grenade splash dmg is only 150ish If you know you are facing a MD why would you enter an open area that he is guarding? Why are you grouped up tight enough where he can put damage on the entire group with single shots? The MD has too big of a splash radius right now. That is the problem. I think nerfing it down on the Freedom to 4.4 WITH skills instead of skills on top of 4.4 would solve the problem. That extra 1.1 meters is huge. That's the difference in you taking damage behind cover or not. But I still think it's a tactics issue. With the flaylocks there was no way to escape it's damage because the ROF was so fast. If I catch someone with a flux and get a MD round on them at the right time, I can make them disappear in an instant. But this RARELY happens in PC against top flight players. Not just a tactics issue, but there is little variety in the game right now. There aren't a ton of heavies with HMG at the moment and they aren't effective against MD users anyway. I think one of the best things to counter a group of MDs would be a group of fast moving scouts/assaults with shotguns, nova knives, flaylocks, etc. that can get in close. In tight spots a MD user being charged by a these types of players will do some damage to himself. If they are a group of MD users they may end up killing each other while panicking trying to kill the fast movers bouncing around them. This is the part of PC that I love. When you get a sense of what the strengths of the enemy are you try and come up with ways to beat it. I understand where all the hyper competitive FPS guys are coming from, but I enjoy the variety and the endless options available. The frustration we all have is due to the lack of racial variants and proper balance. The frustration with the MD is valid. But I don't think it's extremely OP or anything. Just nerf the splash radius a bit and see if it helps. I agree with nerfing the splash damage. However when people use it in CqC how is that a nerf? I mean it is so simple to use MD like it's a shotgun. It's like a shotgun where you don't have to land hits on the target. That's how I used it in my demonstration. Xero, dream on. The MD won't be getting a nerf. That's because it's not OP. I know you myopic AR users can't see that, but, well, the killfeed doesn't lie.
Again I'm shotgun user... |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
855
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's not the splash damage. It's the splash radius.
It is a freakin grenade. It should do some damage. It just shouldn't do the damage in such a wide area. |
XeroTheBigBoss
TeamPlayers
EoN.
903
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote:I think the main problem of most complaining about the MD comes from thee things 1: comparing the MD & the AR 2: forgetting what the MD is (a mid range anti infantry area of denial weapon) and 3: engaging the weapon in either it's optimal range or staying somewhere when you know that the splash can hit you (alot of my kills) then wondering why you died....... on ps3 so excuse the eyestrain :3 just an opinion The Mass Driver works EXTREMELY well in CqC... That's how I used it. It does and I think that is where it should work well in my opinion. I think getting up high with a MD and raining down from above is cheap and boring. I can't stand doing it. Out of the 10,000 or so kills I've gotten with the MD I'd say 99% of them have been in CqC or open ground. If I'm in a pub and it's only my squad fighting I'll get up high to get some cheap kills. But I'm bored with the MD. I've been using it too long. Now that I'm done with it it's finally seen as OP. I played with the damn thing completely broken for two months. It was never viewed in a favorable fashion by the "elites", but it sucks seeing it dragged through the mud right now. I actually warned against buffing the splash radius back to chromosome levels before they fixed the hit detection. My prediction has come true. It's too easy with the splash radius where it's at.
IF you are gonna turn the MD into a CqC weapon than it needs to get rid of the smokescreen effect as well as the knock off enemy aim each time you hit. It has way too much advantages that out weigh the one or two cons. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1480
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Buster Friently wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Thor Odinson42[quote=Paran Tadec wrote:
Logic, if damage is being done, then it is a hit, direct or splash.
Now lets give the robots 700 HP, where the grenade splash dmg is only 150ish
If you know you are facing a MD why would you enter an open area that he is guarding?
Why are you grouped up tight enough where he can put damage on the entire group with single shots?
The MD has too big of a splash radius right now. That is the problem. I think nerfing it down on the Freedom to 4.4 WITH skills instead of skills on top of 4.4 would solve the problem. That extra 1.1 meters is huge. That's the difference in you taking damage behind cover or not.
But I still think it's a tactics issue. With the flaylocks there was no way to escape it's damage because the ROF was so fast. If I catch someone with a flux and get a MD round on them at the right time, I can make them disappear in an instant. But this RARELY happens in PC against top flight players.
Not just a tactics issue, but there is little variety in the game right now. There aren't a ton of heavies with HMG at the moment and they aren't effective against MD users anyway. I think one of the best things to counter a group of MDs would be a group of fast moving scouts/assaults with shotguns, nova knives, flaylocks, etc. that can get in close. In tight spots a MD user being charged by a these types of players will do some damage to himself. If they are a group of MD users they may end up killing each other while panicking trying to kill the fast movers bouncing around them.
This is the part of PC that I love. When you get a sense of what the strengths of the enemy are you try and come up with ways to beat it. I understand where all the hyper competitive FPS guys are coming from, but I enjoy the variety and the endless options available. The frustration we all have is due to the lack of racial variants and proper balance.
The frustration with the MD is valid. But I don't think it's extremely OP or anything. Just nerf the splash radius a bit and see if it helps.
I agree with nerfing the splash damage. However when people use it in CqC how is that a nerf? I mean it is so simple to use MD like it's a shotgun. It's like a shotgun where you don't have to land hits on the target. That's how I used it in my demonstration. Xero, dream on. The MD won't be getting a nerf. That's because it's not OP. I know you myopic AR users can't see that, but, well, the killfeed doesn't lie. Again I'm shotgun user...
Well, sorry about accusing you of being an AR user, I guess you're just a card carrying member 
Doesn't change the killfeed one bit though. |
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MlDDLE MANGEMENT
lMPurity
323
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Here is an analogy to show you how "easy mode" the mass driver truly is.
Let's say there is a training facility. At the facility there is an open area. In that open area there are six robots on wheels programmed to move around sporadically but also try and shoot at you (their target) with chalk sim rounds. Now lets say you have a buddy also at this training facility. He and you are about to attempt the same thing - take out the robots.
The instructor comes out and hands you an L85A2 (yeah I'm American but I like the L85), but then you turn to see your instructor hand your buddy the M32A1 grenade launcher.
He instructs you to go first.
You take out all six of the bots in record time - easy stuff, you're a good shot.
They reset the bots and now it's your buddy's turn
He shoots one grenade into the middle of the pack effectively destroying them all.
In the end, while both destroyed the target bots, one person was more "skilled" than the other. Anyone told which way to point a GL can wipe out targets due to the fact that YOU'RE SPAMMING AN AREA WITH EXPLOSIVES. You don't even have to move - just spam area and anything in the general area will be reduced to rubble.
Using the AR (or any other weapon that isn't the Mass Driver) takes some form of skill due to the fact that you have to be ACCURATE - there is no splash damage to "carry" you to acquiring a kill.
TL;DR - The Mass Driver IS NOT OP, just easy mode due to the fact that a player is spamming an area with explosives and can rely on splash damage to also do extra work to his/her advantage. Logic, if damage is being done, then it is a hit, direct or splash. Now lets give the robots 700 HP, where the grenade splash dmg is only 150ish If you know you are facing a MD why would you enter an open area that he is guarding? Why are you grouped up tight enough where he can put damage on the entire group with single shots? The MD has too big of a splash radius right now. That is the problem. I think nerfing it down on the Freedom to 4.4 WITH skills instead of skills on top of 4.4 would solve the problem. That extra 1.1 meters is huge. That's the difference in you taking damage behind cover or not. But I still think it's a tactics issue. With the flaylocks there was no way to escape it's damage because the ROF was so fast. If I catch someone with a flux and get a MD round on them at the right time, I can make them disappear in an instant. But this RARELY happens in PC against top flight players. Not just a tactics issue, but there is little variety in the game right now. There aren't a ton of heavies with HMG at the moment and they aren't effective against MD users anyway. I think one of the best things to counter a group of MDs would be a group of fast moving scouts/assaults with shotguns, nova knives, flaylocks, etc. that can get in close. In tight spots a MD user being charged by a these types of players will do some damage to himself. If they are a group of MD users they may end up killing each other while panicking trying to kill the fast movers bouncing around them. This is the part of PC that I love. When you get a sense of what the strengths of the enemy are you try and come up with ways to beat it. I understand where all the hyper competitive FPS guys are coming from, but I enjoy the variety and the endless options available. The frustration we all have is due to the lack of racial variants and proper balance. The frustration with the MD is valid. But I don't think it's extremely OP or anything. Just nerf the splash radius a bit and see if it helps. I agree with nerfing the splash damage. However when people use it in CqC how is that a nerf? I mean it is so simple to use MD like it's a shotgun. It's like a shotgun where you don't have to land hits on the target. That's how I used it in my demonstration. Xero, dream on. The MD won't be getting a nerf. That's because it's not OP. I know you myopic AR users can't see that, but, well, the killfeed doesn't lie.
Would this be the public match Killfeed Buster? Yup give it up everyone here knows how pathetic your analysis is its as pitiful as CCP who also use pub data. MD works exceedingly better then shotguns and smgs in close quarters, its learning curve isnt all that difficult and once learned is easy to use. Anyone who has difficulty using the mass driver simply is terrible at this game there is no other reason, all other reasons are justifications on why a person may be bad with the weapon but none of them are true, the only truth is they are a bad player. |
FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
188
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Here is an analogy to show you how "easy mode" the mass driver truly is.
Let's say there is a training facility. At the facility there is an open area. In that open area there are six robots on wheels programmed to move around sporadically but also try and shoot at you (their target) with chalk sim rounds. Now lets say you have a buddy also at this training facility. He and you are about to attempt the same thing - take out the robots.
The instructor comes out and hands you an L85A2 (yeah I'm American but I like the L85), but then you turn to see your instructor hand your buddy the M32A1 grenade launcher.
He instructs you to go first.
You take out all six of the bots in record time - easy stuff, you're a good shot.
They reset the bots and now it's your buddy's turn
He shoots one grenade into the middle of the pack effectively destroying them all.
In the end, while both destroyed the target bots, one person was more "skilled" than the other. Anyone told which way to point a GL can wipe out targets due to the fact that YOU'RE SPAMMING AN AREA WITH EXPLOSIVES. You don't even have to move - just spam area and anything in the general area will be reduced to rubble.
Using the AR (or any other weapon that isn't the Mass Driver) takes some form of skill due to the fact that you have to be ACCURATE - there is no splash damage to "carry" you to acquiring a kill.
TL;DR - The Mass Driver IS NOT OP, just easy mode due to the fact that a player is spamming an area with explosives and can rely on splash damage to also do extra work to his/her advantage. Logic, if damage is being done, then it is a hit, direct or splash. Now lets give the robots 700 HP, where the grenade splash dmg is only 150ish If you know you are facing a MD why would you enter an open area that he is guarding? Why are you grouped up tight enough where he can put damage on the entire group with single shots? The MD has too big of a splash radius right now. That is the problem. I think nerfing it down on the Freedom to 4.4 WITH skills instead of skills on top of 4.4 would solve the problem. That extra 1.1 meters is huge. That's the difference in you taking damage behind cover or not. But I still think it's a tactics issue. With the flaylocks there was no way to escape it's damage because the ROF was so fast. If I catch someone with a flux and get a MD round on them at the right time, I can make them disappear in an instant. But this RARELY happens in PC against top flight players. Not just a tactics issue, but there is little variety in the game right now. There aren't a ton of heavies with HMG at the moment and they aren't effective against MD users anyway. I think one of the best things to counter a group of MDs would be a group of fast moving scouts/assaults with shotguns, nova knives, flaylocks, etc. that can get in close. In tight spots a MD user being charged by a these types of players will do some damage to himself. If they are a group of MD users they may end up killing each other while panicking trying to kill the fast movers bouncing around them. This is the part of PC that I love. When you get a sense of what the strengths of the enemy are you try and come up with ways to beat it. I understand where all the hyper competitive FPS guys are coming from, but I enjoy the variety and the endless options available. The frustration we all have is due to the lack of racial variants and proper balance. The frustration with the MD is valid. But I don't think it's extremely OP or anything. Just nerf the splash radius a bit and see if it helps.
The gun is fine. It's people's tactics that suck. Example, my new fit is as follows
Basic advance frame of the minmitsr scout. Nova knife and a std smg with remote explosives. I took out a mass driver user with a scout suit in cqc which is hard because scouts die if they step on a nail. The mass driver user did more damage on himself than I. Than I took him out with the smg and finished him with nova knife. I tried to remote him but the thing bugged when. I dropped it |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1482
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote:Buster Friently wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:
Logic, if damage is being done, then it is a hit, direct or splash.
Now lets give the robots 700 HP, where the grenade splash dmg is only 150ish
If you know you are facing a MD why would you enter an open area that he is guarding? Why are you grouped up tight enough where he can put damage on the entire group with single shots? The MD has too big of a splash radius right now. That is the problem. I think nerfing it down on the Freedom to 4.4 WITH skills instead of skills on top of 4.4 would solve the problem. That extra 1.1 meters is huge. That's the difference in you taking damage behind cover or not. But I still think it's a tactics issue. With the flaylocks there was no way to escape it's damage because the ROF was so fast. If I catch someone with a flux and get a MD round on them at the right time, I can make them disappear in an instant. But this RARELY happens in PC against top flight players. Not just a tactics issue, but there is little variety in the game right now. There aren't a ton of heavies with HMG at the moment and they aren't effective against MD users anyway. I think one of the best things to counter a group of MDs would be a group of fast moving scouts/assaults with shotguns, nova knives, flaylocks, etc. that can get in close. In tight spots a MD user being charged by a these types of players will do some damage to himself. If they are a group of MD users they may end up killing each other while panicking trying to kill the fast movers bouncing around them. This is the part of PC that I love. When you get a sense of what the strengths of the enemy are you try and come up with ways to beat it. I understand where all the hyper competitive FPS guys are coming from, but I enjoy the variety and the endless options available. The frustration we all have is due to the lack of racial variants and proper balance. The frustration with the MD is valid. But I don't think it's extremely OP or anything. Just nerf the splash radius a bit and see if it helps. I agree with nerfing the splash damage. However when people use it in CqC how is that a nerf? I mean it is so simple to use MD like it's a shotgun. It's like a shotgun where you don't have to land hits on the target. That's how I used it in my demonstration. Xero, dream on. The MD won't be getting a nerf. That's because it's not OP. I know you myopic AR users can't see that, but, well, the killfeed doesn't lie. Would this be the public match Killfeed Buster? Yup give it up everyone here knows how pathetic your analysis is its as pitiful as CCP who also use pub data. MD works exceedingly better then shotguns and smgs in close quarters, its learning curve isnt all that difficult and once learned is easy to use. Anyone who has difficulty using the mass driver simply is terrible at this game there is no other reason, all other reasons are justifications on why a person may be bad with the weapon but none of them are true, the only truth is they are a bad player.
Yes, pub feed. You know the game that most of the players of Dust actually play. PC needs to be balanced on it's own, as does pub play. I would think that would be obvious even to the likes of you.
The MD isn't OP. Never has been.
The AR on the other hand continues to be OP and EZ mode for some months now. |
Draxus Prime
BurgezzE.T.F
1342
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 17:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
mass driver excels in mid range
when AR users dont excel in CQ,mid range or long range they cry for nerfs to other weapons and buffs to ARs
ex:
CQ: ar users got killed by shotguns and flaylocks so they got nerfed
long range: ar users got killed by laser rifle and sniper rifles so both were nerfed and AR got range buff
mid range: now AR users want to nerf the MD
just stop |
FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
188
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 17:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
MlDDLE wrote:
Let's say there is a training facility. At the facility there is an open area. In that open area there are six robots on wheels programmed to move around sporadically but also try and shoot at you (their target) with chalk sim rounds. Now lets say you have a buddy also at this training facility. He and you are about to attempt the same thing - take out the robots.
The instructor comes out and hands you an L85A2 (yeah I'm American but I like the L85), but then you turn to see your instructor hand your buddy the M32A1 grenade launcher.
He instructs you to go first.
You take out all six of the bots in record time - easy stuff, you're a good shot.
They reset the bots and now it's your buddy's turn
He shoots one grenade into the middle of the pack effectively destroying them all.
In the end, while both destroyed the target bots, one person was more "skilled" than the other. Anyone told which way to point a GL can wipe out targets due to the fact that YOU'RE SPAMMING AN AREA WITH EXPLOSIVES. You don't even have to move - just spam area and anything in the general area will be reduced to rubble.
Using the AR (or any other weapon that isn't the Mass Driver) takes some form of skill due to the fact that you have to be ACCURATE - there is no splash damage to "carry" you to acquiring a kill.
TL;DR - The Mass Driver IS NOT OP, just easy mode due to the fact that a player is spamming an area with explosives and can rely on splash damage to also do extra work to his/her advantage.
Logic, if damage is being done, then it is a hit, direct or splash.
Now lets give the robots 700 HP, where the grenade splash dmg is only 150ish[/quote]
If you know you are facing a MD why would you enter an open area that he is guarding?
Why are you grouped up tight enough where he can put damage on the entire group with single shots?
The MD has too big of a splash radius right now. That is the problem. I think nerfing it down on the Freedom to 4.4 WITH skills instead of skills on top of 4.4 would solve the problem. That extra 1.1 meters is huge. That's the difference in you taking damage behind cover or not.
But I still think it's a tactics issue. With the flaylocks there was no way to escape it's damage because the ROF was so fast. If I catch someone with a flux and get a MD round on them at the right time, I can make them disappear in an instant. But this RARELY happens in PC against top flight players.
Not just a tactics issue, but there is little variety in the game right now. There aren't a ton of heavies with HMG at the moment and they aren't effective against MD users anyway. I think one of the best things to counter a group of MDs would be a group of fast moving scouts/assaults with shotguns, nova knives, flaylocks, etc. that can get in close. In tight spots a MD user being charged by a these types of players will do some damage to himself. If they are a group of MD users they may end up killing each other while panicking trying to kill the fast movers bouncing around them.
This is the part of PC that I love. When you get a sense of what the strengths of the enemy are you try and come up with ways to beat it. I understand where all the hyper competitive FPS guys are coming from, but I enjoy the variety and the endless options available. The frustration we all have is due to the lack of racial variants and proper balance.
The frustration with the MD is valid. But I don't think it's extremely OP or anything. Just nerf the splash radius a bit and see if it helps.[/quote]
I agree with nerfing the splash damage. However when people use it in CqC how is that a nerf? I mean it is so simple to use MD like it's a shotgun. It's like a shotgun where you don't have to land hits on the target. That's how I used it in my demonstration.[/quote]
Xero, dream on. The MD won't be getting a nerf. That's because it's not OP. I know you myopic AR users can't see that, but, well, the killfeed doesn't lie.[/quote]
Would this be the public match Killfeed Buster? Yup give it up everyone here knows how pathetic your analysis is its as pitiful as CCP who also use pub data. MD works exceedingly better then shotguns and smgs in close quarters, its learning curve isnt all that difficult and once learned is easy to use. Anyone who has difficulty using the mass driver simply is terrible at this game there is no other reason, all other reasons are justifications on why a person may be bad with the weapon but none of them are true, the only truth is they are a bad player.[/quote]
Actually I mainly use my smg in cqc vs mass driver users. Even though I have a mass driver but the risk is to big. Usually he hurt himself and I take him out. Did I mention I run scouts as well with a nova knife as the side arm and smg as a main? Pretty fun shyt. |
bolsh lee
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
374
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 17:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
 Here is an idea
How about we quit bickering like children and making threads about OP anything till after 1.4. When shotguns, scrams, AR and especially lasers will actually be able to aim and shut down the explosive spam..... |
Soldiersaint
Deepspace Digital
311
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 18:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Why the hell would you want to take your time aiming when you can take out the enemy with explosives? they are naturally more dangerous than any freaking cheeseball assault rifle and they can destroy light armour. to hell with you freaking assault rifles and sub machine toys. |
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