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RECON BY FIRE
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
234
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the miserable attempt at punishing AFKers with this most recent SP event being an obvious failure, it is time to start discussing legitimate ways to end the AFKing.
First and foremost, the frontrunner of the problem besides this game not being very fun, is that we are given more SP for doing nothing than we are for doing something; 5 SP per second and 1 SP per WP in a match. So why should we play when our efforts in game are barely rewarded? As already stated the game isn't very fun at the moment, so what do I have to gain by playing? Instead SP gains should be flipped the other way around as well as multiplied. We should gain between 10 and 20 SP per WP and around 1 to 5 SP per second in a game. Under these gains noobs should still find the gains that will help to get them in the gear they need to be in (lets face it, if you cant make 500 WP a game you shouldn't be worried about better gear, it wont help) as well as allow players that perform well to hit their cap quicker and make the game feel less grindy and more enjoyable. Also, why AFK if I can gain five to ten times as much SP by playing?
The second thing is really the biggest problem, but also already well known to CCP. The game right out sucks at this moment. Funky hit detection, inconsistent aiming mechanics, weapons balancing that is nowhere near finished, etc.
Feel free to generally discuss this topic so I can post an appropriate thread in the Feedback forum at a later date. |
Nemo Bluntz
TeamPlayers Eon.
258
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
When I afk my team wins about half the time anyway.
I don't know why everyone keeps bitching about it. |
Kinky Burrito
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
180
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Take out the passive sp in matches altogether and make it all based on wp, but add a diminishing multiplier for newer players. As they gain sp and get better gear, they should be getting more wp and the multiplier goes down. That way they can still keep a respectable pace with vets who are leading the scoreboards. |
BARDAS
DUST University Ivy League
270
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Auto-disconnect would work if you AFK for more than a couple of minutes. No rewards, ect. |
semperfi1999
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
748
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
RECON BY FIRE wrote:With the miserable attempt at punishing AFKers with this most recent SP event being an obvious failure, it is time to start discussing legitimate ways to end the AFKing.
First and foremost, the frontrunner of the problem besides this game not being very fun, is that we are given more SP for doing nothing than we are for doing something; 5 SP per second and 1 SP per WP in a match. So why should we play when our efforts in game are barely rewarded? As already stated the game isn't very fun at the moment, so what do I have to gain by playing? Instead SP gains should be flipped the other way around as well as multiplied. We should gain between 10 and 20 SP per WP and around 1 to 5 SP per second in a game. Under these gains noobs should still find the gains that will help to get them in the gear they need to be in (lets face it, if you cant make 500 WP a game you shouldn't be worried about better gear, it wont help) as well as allow players that perform well to hit their cap quicker and make the game feel less grindy and more enjoyable. Also, why AFK if I can gain five to ten times as much SP by playing?
The second thing is really the biggest problem, but also already well known to CCP. The game right out sucks at this moment. Funky hit detection, inconsistent aiming mechanics, weapons balancing that is nowhere near finished, etc.
Feel free to generally discuss this topic so I can post an appropriate thread in the Feedback forum at a later date.
I love it recon.......of course it wont be implemented..........and noobs will come crying that good players will get too much SP per match............but very good solution. |
semperfi1999
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
748
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
BARDAS wrote:Auto-disconnect would work if you AFK for more than a couple of minutes. No rewards, ect.
Say hello to my friend the rubber band. Spinning circles may make me dizzy but it also keeps this supposed anti AFK system from working. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
186
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
My solution: Degressive SP per WP rewards and a reduction in passive SP.
Let's assume some numbers: A match lasts 15 minutes, that's 900 seconds. Passive SP goes down to 1 SP per second. That's 900 SP for showing up. Active SP follows a degressive curve such as the logarithm of achieved warpoints. To arrive at the same ball-park total SP as before let active SP be 500 * log(WP).
Here's what you'd get according to your earned WP: 0 WP: - Infinite SP (Hm, may wonna tweak this case.) 100 WP: 3200 SP 200 WP: 3500 SP 400 WP: 3900 SP 800 WP: 4200 SP 1600 WP: 4500 SP
Numbers can of course be tweaked, so please ignore the precise scaling factor for the time being. The more important bit here is that doubling WPs doesn't double your SP. Even just a little contribution shows that you tried and gives you most of the SP a more proficient player earns. |
Spec Ops Cipher
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
285
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
RECON BY FIRE wrote:With the miserable attempt at punishing AFKers with this most recent SP event being an obvious failure, it is time to start discussing legitimate ways to end the AFKing.
First and foremost, the frontrunner of the problem besides this game not being very fun, is that we are given more SP for doing nothing than we are for doing something; 5 SP per second and 1 SP per WP in a match. So why should we play when our efforts in game are barely rewarded? As already stated the game isn't very fun at the moment, so what do I have to gain by playing? Instead SP gains should be flipped the other way around as well as multiplied. We should gain between 10 and 20 SP per WP and around 1 to 5 SP per second in a game. Under these gains noobs should still find the gains that will help to get them in the gear they need to be in (lets face it, if you cant make 500 WP a game you shouldn't be worried about better gear, it wont help) as well as allow players that perform well to hit their cap quicker and make the game feel less grindy and more enjoyable. Also, why AFK if I can gain five to ten times as much SP by playing?
The second thing is really the biggest problem, but also already well known to CCP. The game right out sucks at this moment. Funky hit detection, inconsistent aiming mechanics, weapons balancing that is nowhere near finished, etc.
Feel free to generally discuss this topic so I can post an appropriate thread in the Feedback forum at a later date. Fly up there and shotgun them. |
Protocake JR
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
438
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
BARDAS wrote:Auto-disconnect would work if you AFK for more than a couple of minutes. No rewards, ect.
All you have to do is pin down the left stick then boom, you are no longer AFKing according to the computer. |
RoundEy3
Metal Mind Industries
295
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
get rid of active SP entirely and replace SP from WP to a small amount of Aurum for WP.
Think about it, it would do wonders. |
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Knight Soiaire
Better Hide R Die
1640
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:BARDAS wrote:Auto-disconnect would work if you AFK for more than a couple of minutes. No rewards, ect. Say hello to my friend the rubber band. Spinning circles may make me dizzy but it also keeps this supposed anti AFK system from working.
Rubber band?
Pfft.
My controller is broken so I'm always moving forward. |
Billi Gene
The Southern Legion
219
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
"report afk" functionality through the team interface, sets off a visual warning ...no audible warning, on screen in big letters like the old OB ready pop up.
if player has died in the last minute, killed in the last 5 minutes, shot at and hit a red within the last 2 minutes, recieved WP for anything other than Team Respawn, vehicle/installation reps, team resupply, or has been within radar range of a red within the last 3 minutes... then the pop up warning does not appear,
following pop up warning a large countdown appears for 3 minutes. Doing any of the above cancels the count down. Successive Warnings produce a lower time limit at a rate of 50% of the previous.
If the countdown reaches 0 you are forced out of the match.
being forced out of three games in a row nets you a loss of 1% of your total Life Time SP. reclaimable after submitting a ticket for review.
hows that for "off the top o' meh 'ead" ? |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
2746
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:My solution: Degressive SP per WP rewards and a reduction in passive SP.
Let's assume some numbers: A match lasts 15 minutes, that's 900 seconds. Passive SP goes down to 1 SP per second. That's 900 SP for showing up. Active SP follows a degressive curve such as the logarithm of achieved warpoints. To arrive at the same ball-park total SP as before let active SP be 500 * log(WP).
Here's what you'd get according to your earned WP: 0 WP: - Infinite SP (Hm, may wonna tweak this case.) 100 WP: 3200 SP 200 WP: 3500 SP 400 WP: 3900 SP 800 WP: 4200 SP 1600 WP: 4500 SP
Numbers can of course be tweaked, so please ignore the precise scaling factor for the time being. The more important bit here is that doubling WPs doesn't double your SP. Even just a little contribution shows that you tried and gives you most of the SP a more proficient player earns. We also have to take the SP cap into account- previously, the cap just removed the SP per second. Maybe if you're SP capped, it could just be reduced to 1 SP per WP. Exact same effect, different means of reaching it. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
2746
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:"report afk" functionality through the team interface, sets off a visual warning ...no audible warning, on screen in big letters like the old OB ready pop up.
if player has died in the last minute, killed in the last 5 minutes, shot at and hit a red within the last 2 minutes, recieved WP for anything other than Team Respawn, vehicle/installation reps, team resupply, or has been within radar range of a red within the last 3 minutes... then the pop up warning does not appear,
following pop up warning a large countdown appears for 3 minutes. Doing any of the above cancels the count down. Successive Warnings produce a lower time limit at a rate of 50% of the previous.
If the countdown reaches 0 you are forced out of the match.
being forced out of three games in a row nets you a loss of 1% of your total Life Time SP. reclaimable after submitting a ticket for review.
hows that for "off the top o' meh 'ead" ? Wouldn't work. AFK would just turn into managing uplinks while semi-AFK (what most people do now) |
semperfi1999
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
751
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:"report afk" functionality through the team interface, sets off a visual warning ...no audible warning, on screen in big letters like the old OB ready pop up.
if player has died in the last minute, killed a red in the last 5 minutes, shot at and hit a red within the last 2 minutes, recieved WP for anything other than Team Respawn, vehicle/installation reps, team resupply, or has been within radar range of a red within the last 3 minutes... then the pop up warning does not appear,
following pop up warning a large countdown appears for 3 minutes. Doing any of the above cancels the count down. Successive Warnings produce a lower time limit at a rate of 50% of the previous.
If the countdown reaches 0 you are forced out of the match.
being forced out of three games in a row nets you a loss of 1% of your total Life Time SP. reclaimable after submitting a ticket for review.
hows that for "off the top o' meh 'ead" ?
edit: team interface to stop post match trolling.
no problem with an afk'er so dedicated to the cause as to take a possible 0/15 k/dr hit just to get 5k SP :P
Hilariously this is the single worst idea I have seen to prevent AFKing. Not only would it not work...but it would be super spammed and end up clogging up the latency. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7041
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 19:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Soon I heard, and rubber band trick won't work either nor would a lego mindstorm contraption. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
340
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 20:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
I have been thinking about it for a couple of minutes, off and on, and my solutions and opinions are as follows.
Most solutions seem to be reduce passive SP gains in battle and increase active SP gains from WP.
1. Why does everybody who comes up with a solution start with reducing passive sp gain in battle? 2. Why should active sp be based of the WP you gain?
This simply punishes new players and average players who do not gain 500 WP in every match or even on average throughout the day etc. it will only result in the majority of players falling behind the elite or better than average players at an even faster rate.
If you are concerned with player retention, especially new players, then this is an awful solution. How many new or low SP level players are gaining high WP in each game. In fact it is likely that on average they are probably getting less than 300 WP per game. Based on some of the solutions I have heard would result in these low WP players earning between 1-3k SP per game while those who normally earn 1-2k WP would be earning 5-10k SP per game.
This means new or average players would need to play even longer before they had a decent amount of SP invested resulting in an even greater grind even though they are putting in the same hours playing the game.
My solution would be to keep the current battle SP calculation as a base I.e. 5 SP per second you are in battle and 1 SP per WP, I believe, and then add an additional multiplier which is based on actions but not on WP for example you join a squad, you damage an enemy but you do not have to get an assist, you start a hack but you stop for whatever reason -death- before completing it. These actions increase your active SP gains but are not dependent on earning WP but are based on being actively involved.
The max SP you can gain from these actions should be equal to but not exceed what you could gain from passive battle SP i.e. say you gained 4000 SP for time in battle and 1000 SP, from the 1000 WP you earned, then active actions SP would be capped at 3000 SP. 4000 - 1000 = 3000.
This possible solution would result in an active player having the ability to earn double what an AFKer could earn but would not punish new, bad or average players for not earning lots of WP. At least they will earn something from shooting and hitting reds or trying to hack even if it does not result in a kill or a successful hack. The more they try the greater the amount of active SP they can earn. It also means that you do not feel like you being punished because you are not an above average player earning lots of WP per game and with the fact that you are still earning 5 SP per second means you are still earning a decent amount of SP per game.
The psychology behind this is simple if there is a chance of earning twice the amount of SP in a battle by taking part rather than going AFK most players would start to feel like they are loosing out. Whereas simply swapping SP earned per second with WP would decimate the exiting player base and destroy any chance of growth from new players sticking around apart from a few high skilled FPS players.
We already warn new players to expect numerous deaths for few kills and limited WP earned. To then change the battle SP system to one that significantly favours the vets and ensures the top players the ability to earn 3-5 times more SP in each battle and even worse ensures that low WP players earn minuscule amounts of SP has the power to kill this game. |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
The Southern Legion
23
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 20:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Just remove the ability to spawn onto the MCC? Skydiving is fun, but not really sure what other benefit there is...
Very simple, very easy to do (I would imagine) |
RECON BY FIRE
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
238
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 13:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:To the OP this is not aimed at you but my answer after reading about soutions on several different threads.
I have been thinking about it for a couple of minutes, off and on, and my solutions and opinions are as follows.
Most solutions seem to be reduce passive SP gains in battle and increase active SP gains from WP.
1. Why does everybody who comes up with a solution start with reducing passive sp gain in battle? 2. Why should active sp be based of the WP you gain?
This simply punishes new players and average players who do not gain 500 WP in every match or even on average throughout the day etc. it will only result in the majority of players falling behind the elite or better than average players at an even faster rate. If you were having problems reaching the cap before this would render it almost impossible.
If you are concerned with player retention, especially new players, then this is an awful solution. How many new or low SP level players are gaining high WP in each game. In fact it is likely that on average they are probably getting less than 300 WP per game. Based on some of the solutions I have heard would result in these low WP players earning between 1-3k SP per game while those who normally earn 1-2k WP would be earning 5-10k SP per game.
This means new or average players would need to play even longer before they had a decent amount of SP invested resulting in an even greater grind even though they are putting in the same hours playing the game.
My solution would be to keep the current battle SP calculation as a base I.e. 5 SP per second you are in battle and 1 SP per WP, I believe, and then add an additional multiplier which is based on actions but not on WP for example you join a squad, you damage an enemy but you do not have to get an assist, you start a hack but you stop for whatever reason -death- before completing it. These actions increase your active SP gains but are not dependent on earning WP but are based on being actively involved.
The max SP you can gain from these actions should be equal to but not exceed what you could gain from passive battle SP i.e. say you gained 4000 SP for time in battle and 1000 SP, from the 1000 WP you earned, then active actions SP would be capped at 3000 SP. 4000 - 1000 = 3000.
This possible solution would result in an active player having the ability to earn double what an AFKer could earn but would not punish new, bad or average players for not earning lots of WP. At least they will earn something from shooting and hitting reds or trying to hack even if it does not result in a kill or a successful hack. The more they try the greater the amount of active SP they can earn. It also means that you do not feel like you being punished because you are not an above average player earning lots of WP per game and with the fact that you are still earning 5 SP per second means you are still earning a decent amount of SP per game.
The psychology behind this is simple if there is a chance of earning twice the amount of SP in a battle by taking part rather than going AFK most players would start to feel like they are loosing out. Whereas simply swapping SP earned per second with WP would decimate the exiting player base and destroy any chance of growth from new players sticking around apart from a few high skilled FPS players.
We already warn new players to expect numerous deaths for few kills and limited WP earned. To then change the battle SP system to one that significantly favours the vets and ensures the top players the ability to earn 3-5 times more SP in each battle and even worse ensures that low WP players earn minuscule amounts of SP has the power to kill this game.
So your solution is to punish everybody by giving them less SP than they earn now while still giving people a way to AFK? |
Knight Soiaire
Better Hide R Die
1662
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 13:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Soon I heard, and rubber band trick won't work either nor would a lego mindstorm contraption.
Challenge accepted.
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