DUST Search - Buffing Light AV is the only way to stop MLT tank spam

The Attorney General wrote:

Cody Sietz wrote:

Like I said, remove light AV because my 120k Proto swarm launcher fit shouldn't be able to dent tanks. Prof 4+2 complex dmg mods and I have literally watched maddys and so as just shrug it off. There is only so much dancing I can do vs a tank and just watch him walk away.

But hey, insult me. That's how to get a point across.

Edit:What about people who don't wanna spec heavy till we get the full line? I know I'm waiting for the Gallente heavy.

But even then, the GalHeavy will be the worst AV because of the single low slot it gets. So what will you say then?

Should tanks only be killed by other tanks and non Gallente heavies?

Removing swarms would be great, because people who want fire and forget AV are bad, and should have no impact on the game.

You want AV that works, aim for yourself. You already get AV nades, and if you need your main to aim for you as well, then maybe you should do something other than play an FPS.

You want an effective PLC? I am with you on that, that thing is monstrously difficult with a low payoff. If it needs that much skill to get hits, it needs lots more damage. The issue CCP has stated is not overbuffing it versus infantry. Untie that knot and you win a prize.

As to your Last couple of lines, an Amarr Sentinel can wield a forge just fine. So the Gallente should serve just as well. Not that you would know, because you won't even spend 273k SP to get an advanced Amarr heavy frame and run 2 damage mods. Because less than a weeks worth of SP to run dual damage mods is a bad investment somehow.

Keep getting stomped in whatever ambush matches you spam trying to grind out ISK.

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Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2284	Posted - 2014.02.16 14:40:00 - [1] - Quote I've said this many times, but I feel people are blaming tanks and not the tools used to kill them. Buffing dmg on the swarm launcher and the PLC will stop MLT tank spam. Or at the very least, lower it. You can't buff AV nades because they were far to powerful. However, I'd like to see them get a bonus multiplier against LAVs and Dropships. It shouldn't take 3 Packed AV nades to kill a MLT LAV. FGs are fine IMO, maybe buff the DMG by 5 percent on non-Assault/Breach variant so it's actually worth using. You can't nerf MLT tanks because STD tanks will run wild with no fear of being popped by a soma/sica. The system is to intertwined as of right now. Buffing one, nerfs the other and vise versa. Tanks are balanced IMO, but they need to be tuned and tweaked. The base work is there, it just needs to be built on and to have a proper counter. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9595	Posted - 2014.02.16 14:47:00 - [2] - Quote But swarm launchers and plasma cannons should only be able to kill LAVs and dropships! ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2287	Posted - 2014.02.16 14:49:00 - [3] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: But swarm launchers and plasma cannons should only be able to kill LAVs and dropships! Don't forget, it should take at least 3 Proto swarm users firing on a tanker while he is sleeping to kill him. Ok, I couldn't resist xD "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9595	Posted - 2014.02.16 14:50:00 - [4] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: But swarm launchers and plasma cannons should only be able to kill LAVs and dropships! Don't forget, it should take at least 3 Proto swarm users firing on a tanker while he is sleeping to kill him. Ok, I couldn't resist xD Don't be absurd. That shouldn't be possible, even if the tanker is sleeping. On a serious note, the plasma cannon is a very sad weapon. I was using a pair of them on a Commando against a tank the other day and it couldn't make a dent. I fired off 8 or so rounds and the tank was near full health when I gave up. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 215	Posted - 2014.02.16 14:56:00 - [5] - Quote Or they could introduce a whole array of AV for light and heavy weapons along with EWAR to accompany it. Close range heavy AV with stasis webifiers to hold the vehicle in place should be the most deadly form of AV, long range AV should be a hinderance that can kill only the vehicle is exposed for a decent period of time. We are trying to balance AV/vehicle with half of the light AV, 1/4 of the heavy AV, none of the EWAR that is supposed to accompany it, and only standard vehicles with no specializations. It's like trying to balance a person who only has half a left arm, has a right hand but no right arm, no right leg at all, and a left leg with no toes. Clearly this person is in need of serious help if they are to ever function normally, this is also the current state of AV/vehicles.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2287	Posted - 2014.02.16 15:05:00 - [6] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: But swarm launchers and plasma cannons should only be able to kill LAVs and dropships! Don't forget, it should take at least 3 Proto swarm users firing on a tanker while he is sleeping to kill him. Ok, I couldn't resist xD Don't be absurd. That shouldn't be possible, even if the tanker is sleeping. On a serious note, the plasma cannon is a very sad weapon. I was using a pair of them on a Commando against a tank the other day and it couldn't make a dent. I fired off 8 or so rounds and the tank was near full health when I gave up. Oh yeah, it's a sad weapon. Still holds a special place in my green heart(mostly cause I went straight to prof 3 hoping it would not suck for too long) @Texs, swarms as they are now, are a close range AV weapon. A tank can murder anyone from 150 meters away. And I'm honestly fine with the swarm launcher not having the range it had before, it could solo tanks from high up on any tower. They have 3 round mags(now) fire slow, and the missile can be outrun. Not to mention the lock/relock system can be a bit glitchy(no lock on sound, box doesn't turn red,only 1 missile comes out)they don't always hit, but when they do, it should seriously hurt. The swarm launcher is a relic and has been nerfed into the ground. It has to do one thing, and that is be able to mess up vehicles. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 896	Posted - 2014.02.16 15:06:00 - [7] - Quote 1.5 mil sp to even get into a Militia tank, 2 mil for std. Fixed. Oh yeah, and raise the price. CEO Whiskey squad leader Invictus Maneo~"I Remain Unvanquished"~
Protocake JR Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 1358	Posted - 2014.02.16 15:11:00 - [8] - Quote I agree on the sentiment. I don't necessarily mind the amount of tanks that are often deployed. What I absolutely HATE is not being able to do anything about them 90% of the time unless I use my forge gun fit. And it's boring because I end up spending a lot of time waiting or crying while watching tanks escape with 10% of their health left. Other times I decide to spawn my forge gunner and all the tanks get destroyed before I get a chance to engage one. So then i'm stuck in a slow ass suit, trying to make my way to a supply depot. Anyways, Light AV needs to be buffed, yes. Just enough so that at least one single light AV guy can force a tank to retreat after taking fire from two or three "magazines" worth of ammo. (give the plc 2 or 3 shots before it has to reload) DPS needs to be higher than the highest amount of passive reps a tank can receive (I used a PlC on an armor tank that recovered to full health before I could even get a second shot off). Make Light AV weapons equipable to the sidearm weapon slot (go ahead and change the name "sidearm" to "secondary" if it makes you feel better). Rocket launchers are not primary weapons in modern FPS for a reason. Primary "rocket launchers" and everything else similar should be reserved for HEAVY weaponry (like the forge gun). The PC and SL should fit into the Sidearm slot so it's accessible and practical to carry one. AV spam vs V spam
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2287	Posted - 2014.02.16 15:12:00 - [9] - Quote CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: 1.5 mil sp to even get into a Militia tank, 2 mil for std. Fixed. Oh yeah, and raise the price. Raise the price for MLT tanks slightly, it should bankrupt some to run MLT gear. But it should be felt if you lose it. Same goes for STD tanks, raise the price slightly. You get too bang for your buck. As for the sp, it does take a decent amount to use a STD tank. And even if you asked people to skill into MLT tanks(which doesn't make sense IMO) people would still do so and continue to abuse this broken system. You would actually mess it up for newer players more then anything. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2287	Posted - 2014.02.16 15:19:00 - [10] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: I agree on the sentiment. I don't necessarily mind the amount of tanks that are often deployed. What I absolutely HATE is not being able to do anything about them 90% of the time unless I use my forge gun fit. And it's boring because I end up spending a lot of time waiting or crying while watching tanks escape with 10% of their health left. Other times I decide to spawn my forge gunner and all the tanks get destroyed before I get a chance to engage one. So then i'm stuck in a slow ass suit, trying to make my way to a supply depot. Anyways, Light AV needs to be buffed, yes. Just enough so that at least one single light AV guy can force a tank to retreat after taking fire from two or three "magazines" worth of ammo. (give the plc 2 or 3 shots before it has to reload) DPS needs to be higher than the highest amount of passive reps a tank can receive (I used a PlC on an armor tank that recovered to full health before I could even get a second shot off). Make Light AV weapons equipable to the sidearm weapon slot (go ahead and change the name "sidearm" to "secondary" if it makes you feel better). Rocket launchers are not primary weapons in modern FPS for a reason. Primary "rocket launchers" and everything else similar should be reserved for HEAVY weaponry (like the forge gun). I agree, running 2 reps/hardeners/boosters should have some sort of drawback. Again, that's where the tuning and tweaking will come into Play. And I'd love for light AV to be a "secondary" but you will never get the community on board with it. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire

Protocake JR Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 1359	Posted - 2014.02.16 15:24:00 - [11] - Quote CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: 1.5 mil sp to even get into a Militia tank, 2 mil for std. Fixed. Oh yeah, and raise the price. NO! Do not raise the price. If you payed any attention to the history of this "Vehicle versus Anti-Vehicle" war you should have realized that ISK is NOT a balancing factor. You should not get God Mode, just because it cost you 2.5 mil ISK. Also, you do not want people paying 2.5 mil ISK for something that has fairly low survivability. BALANCING WITH ISK AND SP DOES NOT WORK. If anything, I would even be up for a price reduction. Tanks (and all other vehicles) need to be accessible. If you want to pilot a vehicle, if that is what's fun for you, you should be able to do so. The only thing that is missing from this puzzle is equally accessible and viable counters to vehicles. The current light AV is definitely NOT viable. Sacrifice a real primary weapon (infantry killing power) for an AV weapon that might ward off a tank. Does that sound like fun? It's not. Like the OP and I have said. Tanks are not the issue, it's the fact that the counters put in place are neither practical nor viable in terms of effectiveness and entertainment (it's why we play games after all, right?) The PC and SL should fit into the Sidearm slot so it's accessible and practical to carry one. AV spam vs V spam
negative49er Profits Of Mayhem 506	Posted - 2014.02.16 15:26:00 - [12] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: But swarm launchers and plasma cannons should only be able to kill LAVs and dropships! yeah they're very effective against them(LLAV) Dedicated Shotgun Scout and professional backstabber
NF Travel Agent Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 0	Posted - 2014.02.16 15:33:00 - [13] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I've said this many times, but I feel people are blaming tanks and not the tools used to kill them. Buffing dmg on the swarm launcher and the PLC will stop MLT tank spam. Or at the very least, lower it. You can't buff AV nades because they were far to powerful. However, I'd like to see them get a bonus multiplier against LAVs and Dropships. It shouldn't take 3 Packed AV nades to kill a MLT LAV. FGs are fine IMO, maybe buff the DMG by 5 percent on non-Assault/Breach variant so it's actually worth using. You can't nerf MLT tanks because STD tanks will run wild with no fear of being popped by a soma/sica. The system is to intertwined as of right now. Buffing one, nerfs the other and vise versa. Tanks are balanced IMO, but they need to be tuned and tweaked. The base work is there, it just needs to be built on and to have a proper counter. Two words ready say it with me "forge gun" Contact in game to buy a district or register .
The Attorney General 1976	Posted - 2014.02.16 15:43:00 - [14] - Quote Yet another medium frames should do everything post. Why not just remove everything that isn't a medium suit and a rail rifle? That seems to be where people want this game to go, lets just skip all the intermediate steps. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2288	Posted - 2014.02.16 15:49:00 - [15] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Yet another medium frames should do everything post. Why not just remove everything that isn't a medium suit and a rail rifle? That seems to be where people want this game to go, lets just skip all the intermediate steps. We get it, you want us to play a certain way. We have to spec FG and heavy. God forbid we get to play how we wanna play. Let's just remove light AV since you guys say it's fine. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
The Attorney General 1978	Posted - 2014.02.16 15:59:00 - [16] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: We get it, you want us to play a certain way. We have to spec FG and heavy. God forbid we get to play how we wanna play. Let's just remove light AV since you guys say it's fine. Really? Because I have made several suggestions for buffs to the PLC, and either a range or damage buff for swarms. The difference is that I want to keep the heavy suit as the primary AV role because it is very well suited to it, whereas you scrubs don't want to make any sort of distinction between your AP fits and your AV fits, you want everything in a single frame to save you SP, or the difficult task of figuring out which suit is best suited to the task at hand. I want to run a different turret, it takes a boatload of SP, but you just want to scroll down to another light weapon and get the same effectiveness as the only AV weapon on the only frame that is designed to be able to survive a fight against a vehicle. Hey, since infantry are too stupid to figure out that attacking a hardened shield tank with swarms is not effective, we should change that too right? Catering to mouth breathers rarely improves a game. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2288	Posted - 2014.02.16 16:08:00 - [17] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: We get it, you want us to play a certain way. We have to spec FG and heavy. God forbid we get to play how we wanna play. Let's just remove light AV since you guys say it's fine. Really? Because I have made several suggestions for buffs to the PLC, and either a range or damage buff for swarms. The difference is that I want to keep the heavy suit as the primary AV role because it is very well suited to it, whereas you scrubs don't want to make any sort of distinction between your AP fits and your AV fits, you want everything in a single frame to save you SP, or the difficult task of figuring out which suit is best suited to the task at hand. I want to run a different turret, it takes a boatload of SP, but you just want to scroll down to another light weapon and get the same effectiveness as the only AV weapon on the only frame that is designed to be able to survive a fight against a vehicle. Hey, since infantry are too stupid to figure out that attacking a hardened shield tank with swarms is not effective, we should change that too right? Catering to mouth breathers rarely improves a game. Like I said, remove light AV because my 120k Proto swarm launcher fit shouldn't be able to dent tanks. Prof 4+2 complex dmg mods and I have literally watched maddys and so as just shrug it off. There is only so much dancing I can do vs a tank and just watch him walk away. But hey, insult me. That's how to get a point across. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2225	Posted - 2014.02.16 16:14:00 - [18] - Quote PRO Plasma Cannons should take no more than 3 landed shots to destroy ANY tank. 2 shots for Sicas/Gunnlogis, and 3 shots for Somas/Madrugars. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
The Attorney General 1979	Posted - 2014.02.16 16:30:00 - [19] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Like I said, remove light AV because my 120k Proto swarm launcher fit shouldn't be able to dent tanks. Prof 4+2 complex dmg mods and I have literally watched maddys and so as just shrug it off. There is only so much dancing I can do vs a tank and just watch him walk away. But hey, insult me. That's how to get a point across. Edit:What about people who don't wanna spec heavy till we get the full line? I know I'm waiting for the Gallente heavy. But even then, the GalHeavy will be the worst AV because of the single low slot it gets. So what will you say then? Should tanks only be killed by other tanks and non Gallente heavies? Removing swarms would be great, because people who want fire and forget AV are bad, and should have no impact on the game. You want AV that works, aim for yourself. You already get AV nades, and if you need your main to aim for you as well, then maybe you should do something other than play an FPS. You want an effective PLC? I am with you on that, that thing is monstrously difficult with a low payoff. If it needs that much skill to get hits, it needs lots more damage. The issue CCP has stated is not overbuffing it versus infantry. Untie that knot and you win a prize. As to your Last couple of lines, an Amarr Sentinel can wield a forge just fine. So the Gallente should serve just as well. Not that you would know, because you won't even spend 273k SP to get an advanced Amarr heavy frame and run 2 damage mods. Because less than a weeks worth of SP to run dual damage mods is a bad investment somehow. Keep getting stomped in whatever ambush matches you spam trying to grind out ISK. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10903	Posted - 2014.02.16 16:33:00 - [20] - Quote MLT tanks are an abomination It doesn't take long to skill into your own tank, there is absolutely no excuse for MLT tanks as is, period. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot

Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2291	Posted - 2014.02.16 16:46:00 - [21] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Like I said, remove light AV because my 120k Proto swarm launcher fit shouldn't be able to dent tanks. Prof 4+2 complex dmg mods and I have literally watched maddys and so as just shrug it off. There is only so much dancing I can do vs a tank and just watch him walk away. But hey, insult me. That's how to get a point across. Edit:What about people who don't wanna spec heavy till we get the full line? I know I'm waiting for the Gallente heavy. But even then, the GalHeavy will be the worst AV because of the single low slot it gets. So what will you say then? Should tanks only be killed by other tanks and non Gallente heavies? Removing swarms would be great, because people who want fire and forget AV are bad, and should have no impact on the game. You want AV that works, aim for yourself. You already get AV nades, and if you need your main to aim for you as well, then maybe you should do something other than play an FPS. You want an effective PLC? I am with you on that, that thing is monstrously difficult with a low payoff. If it needs that much skill to get hits, it needs lots more damage. The issue CCP has stated is not overbuffing it versus infantry. Untie that knot and you win a prize. As to your Last couple of lines, an Amarr Sentinel can wield a forge just fine. So the Gallente should serve just as well. Not that you would know, because you won't even spend 273k SP to get an advanced Amarr heavy frame and run 2 damage mods. Because less than a weeks worth of SP to run dual damage mods is a bad investment somehow. Keep getting stomped in whatever ambush matches you spam trying to grind out ISK. i have already said that I'm saving for Gallente. Why would I spend a weeks worth of SP on something I don't wanna use? Also, how is the SL a fire and forget weapon now? You have to be within 150 meters and there is no chance that 3 rounds will kill any tank. It's a fire, relock, fire, relock, fire, reload weapon. I'll agree that pre 1.7 it was way too easy to use and far to much range. Now it is a joke. I would love if my PLC didn't make vehicle users laugh. But for some reason CCP can't buff the direct dmg and not the splash dmg. Not sure why... I honestly can't believe you think the SL is in a good place right now. It is baffling. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2291	Posted - 2014.02.16 19:15:00 - [22] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: MLT tanks are an abomination It doesn't take long to skill into your own tank, there is absolutely no excuse for MLT tanks as is, period. Swarms need the tiniest buff to damage, a little buff to lock on range, and a healthy buff to projectile speed. Plasma Cannon...needs....a reason to exist. my Proto suits hate MLT ARs. But you gotta give people a jumping off point. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 961	Posted - 2014.02.16 19:22:00 - [23] - Quote Return all AV to 1.6 levels, leave AV nades as they are to keep the ultimate mega scrub tankers happy that somehow managed to get killed by these 20m ranged, stock of 3 nades. Then buff the PLC direct damage to 1500 STD, 1750 ADV, 2000 PRO. Then watch tanks actually be balanced against the old swarms. How to get likes: post QQ reply to every thread where a PC corps players post claiming they only win cus "FOTM"
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1252	Posted - 2014.02.16 19:26:00 - [24] - Quote Plasma cannon needs an outright 200% direct damage boost. CQC AV should outdamage forge gun DPS. Drop it like its hat.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2292	Posted - 2014.02.16 19:26:00 - [25] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Return all AV to 1.6 levels, leave AV nades as they are to keep the ultimate mega scrub tankers happy that somehow managed to get killed by these 20m ranged, stock of 3 nades. Then buff the PLC direct damage to 1500 STD, 1750 ADV, 2000 PRO. Then watch tanks actually be balanced against the old swarms. I think they got FGs just right actually. And swarms had far to much range. The dmg nerf however, was to much. Combine that with the previous nerf of having a smaller mag, and you get what we have today. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10917	Posted - 2014.02.16 19:27:00 - [26] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: MLT tanks are an abomination It doesn't take long to skill into your own tank, there is absolutely no excuse for MLT tanks as is, period. Swarms need the tiniest buff to damage, a little buff to lock on range, and a healthy buff to projectile speed. Plasma Cannon...needs....a reason to exist. my Proto suits hate MLT ARs. But you gotta give people a jumping off point. They need a jumping off point, not a ******* catapult. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2292	Posted - 2014.02.16 19:28:00 - [27] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Plasma cannon needs an outright 200% direct damage boost. CQC AV should outdamage forge gun DPS. I was actually thinking that it should do more dmg the closer you are to a target. And as the plasma ball travels, it gets weaker. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2292	Posted - 2014.02.16 19:31:00 - [28] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: MLT tanks are an abomination It doesn't take long to skill into your own tank, there is absolutely no excuse for MLT tanks as is, period. Swarms need the tiniest buff to damage, a little buff to lock on range, and a healthy buff to projectile speed. Plasma Cannon...needs....a reason to exist. my Proto suits hate MLT ARs. But you gotta give people a jumping off point. They need a jumping off point, not a ******* catapult. The problem is, there is no way to nerf the MLT tank without effecting a number of other factors. The only way I can think of is to nerf large MLT turrets. Less dmg, smaller mags, less ammo, higher heat build up and higher CPU/PG cost. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10919	Posted - 2014.02.16 19:33:00 - [29] - Quote The best way to nerf MLT tanks is to force them to fit small turrets. Bam, now they can't fit a lot of tank and have to use teamwork to get the most out of them. You don't want to fit turrets? Skill into Gunloggis or Madrugars. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
The Attorney General 1981	Posted - 2014.02.16 19:34:00 - [30] - Quote How about we get rid of that ridiculous damage scale while we are at it. No other weapon gets a 50% bump in damage output going from STD to Proto. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.



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