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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2323
   |
Posted - 2013.08.04 23:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
THREAD UNDER CONSTRUCTION DO NOT POST 
[P1] Preface:
This is a thread about the balancing of every weapon in dust. This is about infantry balance, not vehicle balance. I will not be covering swarm launchers or forge guns in this thread for that reason (though I will cover the plasma cannon).
While many of us here on the forums like to be witty and troll, I ask that if you respond to this thread you respond constructively.
Similarly, please stay on topic. This is hardly the only balance issue, but this is the only one weGÇÖre discussing here.
This will be divided into sections - a single post canGÇÖt fit the entire thread IGÇÖve prepared here, and this will make it easier to find specific issues.
I donGÇÖt expect anyone to read the entire thread, though youGÇÖre more than welcome to do so if you wish. Rather, IGÇÖd like to see people weighing in on specific issues with weapons that they use frequently.
I will be updating this thread to reflect feedback - provided itGÇÖs constructive feedback and not GÇ£THIS WEPUN IS CRAP BUFF IT BIG!!1one!GÇ¥
ItGÇÖs also worth noting that much of this thread is from my point of view, and while I have talked to people who main these weapons I have been the one to write this. THis is from my point of view.
Here is the list of sections:
[P1] Preface
[P2] Assault Rifle
[P3] Scrambler Rifle
[P4] Laser Rifle
[P5] Heavy Machine Gun
[P6] Mass Driver
[P7] Plasma Cannon
[P8] Flaylock Pistol
[P9] Submachine Gun
[P10] Scrambler Pistol
[P11] Shotgun
[P12] Nova knives
[P13] Sniper Rifle
[P14] Grenade
[P2] Assault Rifle
We start with the ubiquitous weapon - the assault rifle.
This is the subject of some debate, with people complaining that itGÇÖs the best weapon by a long shot.
Right now, this is true in many cases. However, I donGÇÖt think GÇÿnerfingGÇÖ the assault rifle is the answer. The assault rifle is always going to be the most common weapon - itGÇÖs equipped by default loadouts, and itGÇÖs the weapon everyone is used to. ItGÇÖs the most similar weapon to weapons you can find in other shooters. This means that people are always going to gravitate to it.
I think that assault rifles are in a fairly decent place right now (except for one thing which IGÇÖm getting to) - theyGÇÖre usable. In terms of killing potential, theyGÇÖre fine. You also have to remember when nerfing weapons that youGÇÖre not just nerfing that weapon, youGÇÖre effectively buffing dropsuit HP because thereGÇÖs less killing potential. If the effectiveness of the assault rifle was reduced, then dropsuits would be more difficult to kill. I donGÇÖt think this is a good thing, as with the improvements in dropsuit HP between tiers the gap between newbies and veterans would be widened even further.
So letGÇÖs keep killing potential roughly the same, and instead buff other weapons.
This isnGÇÖt to say the class of weapons is perfect though - itGÇÖs not, and there are a number of variants, some better than others.
-Continued in next post- |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2323
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 23:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
The standard assault rifle variant is almost fine, in my opinion. The clip size is a bit too generous, and the recoil doesnGÇÖt work very well - I think that the recoil is laughable.
All the recoil and kick disappears the moment you stop holding down the trigger, so thereGÇÖs hardly any recoil if you burst it even occasionally. The recoil doesnGÇÖt do much even if you do hold down the trigger too much.
This leads to the weapon being too accurate. I think the recoil should be increased quite significantly, and the mechanic tweaked so that the effect doesnGÇÖt reset if you let go of the trigger for an instant.
The burst assault rifle is lacklustre. The sights on it zoom in a bit too much, and the green scope is quite restrictive. The currently poor hit detection means that the burst fire mode also feels quite restrictive. The burst comes out quite slowly, meaning that if youGÇÖre on target for the first shot the next couple of shots might well miss if the target is strafing.
The delay between bursts means that despite the higher base fire rate, because of the lower per bullet damage this variant tends to pull less dps than the automatic variant. Hit detection also affects this weapon significantly, as in CQC itGÇÖs harder to land a shot than with other weapons. The ammunition of this weapon is used up very quickly due to the higher fire rate and lower damage nature of the weapon.
To fix this, I would suggest changing the fire rate so that the GÇÿburstGÇÖ comes out very quickly, all at once, and having a momentGÇÖs delay between bursts. This is actually very similar to the state of the prototype variant right now - a flat fire rate between levels and only ramping up the damage would work better for this weapon. This would make the weapon more about landing a solid burst, and give it a more defined role than it has now. I would also suggest a change in the sights, as the high zoom sight isnGÇÖt great for the shorter range combat this rifle tends to find itself in. A slight buff to damage would also bring the damage output of this weapon up to par - alternatively, a marginal range increase would help this weapon a bit. A small increase to ammunition reserves would be worth considering as well.
The breach assault rifle isnGÇÖt in a very good place. A long time ago this weapon was king, but the nerfbat was swung too hard and itGÇÖs never really recovered.
The damage buff in Uprising was a welcome change, and it has helped the breach quite a bit. However, this weapon suffers from the lower rate of fire - while fixing hit detection will likely help this a bit, with two similar dps weapons itGÇÖs better to go for the one with higher fire rate because youGÇÖre likely to land more of your damage output on the target. The damage output of the breach is actually lower than the automatic variantGÇÖs.
The breach has less damage and range than the automatic AR.
LetGÇÖs compare the standard breach and the standard automatic.
ItGÇÖs 34.1 HP at 750 RPM vs 51.0 HP at 400 RPM.
ThatGÇÖs 426.25 dps vs 340 dps - showing that the breach has quite a bit less dps than the automatic.
Overall, the breach assault rifle has lower dps than the AR, lower fire rate, and, crucially, lower range. The lower range is something that the breach really suffers from, and with no trade-off worth the range reduction this rifle is consigned to the GÇÿuseless weaponsGÇÖ pile.
To fix this, a number of things need to be done. I think keeping it as a CQC weapon is a good thing, and it carves out its own role as a variant.
This weapon needs to reward accuracy in CQC - I believe that was the original intention. Because of this, I suggest tweaking this and going with a higher fire rate. The TAR already fills the job of high damage low fire rate at range, so range canGÇÖt simply be buffed. It shouldnGÇÖt be too much of an increase, so the weapon can still reward accuracy in CQC, but if you increased the fire rate a bit more whilst leaving the damage the same youGÇÖd get a more powerful weapon at short range, which is fairer than the current state of the weapon..
If you went with a fire rate of 588.2 rpm, youGÇÖd end up with 75 more dps than the standard assault rifle, which is a fair trade for the range, and with a lower fire rate itGÇÖs a little more rewarding for accuracy.
That simple fix would do wonders for the breach AR - the range doesnGÇÖt necessarily need to be increased much, as long as itGÇÖs notably more effective in CQC than the other variants of the AR are.
This would suit the short range high damage philosophy of Gallente tech more.
The Tactical Assault Rifle was previously unquestionably overpowered. It was, luckily, nerfed.
I think this nerf has mostly worked. This is no longer a weapon which can wreck any suit in an instant. It remains very strong at range, but this is working as intending, and itGÇÖs weaker at CQC now. Perhaps itGÇÖs still quite accurate with hipfire, but I donGÇÖt think this is enough to warrant a tweak. The main reason that people use it right now is for its range - This is a good thing,as it fulfils its intended role, although ranges in general across all weapons could be a bit higher.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2323
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 23:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
[P3] Scrambler Rifle
The scrambler rifle is another fairly common weapon, and I think that itGÇÖs quite good in its current state.
The damage per shot is high, and combined with a high rate of fire this does let the weapon kill people very quickly - however, the overheat mechanic harshly punishes a shot spamming mentality as was seen previously with the TAR, and this balances out the high firepower of the weapon very effectively.
This weapon doesnGÇÖt need much tweaking. The single shot damage is very high, perhaps slightly too high, but in terms of damage output itGÇÖs fine when balanced with the overheat mechanic. - redundant
There are a couple of issues with the overheat mechanic though. Firstly - the heat generation from shooting doesnGÇÖt seem to be linked directly to each shot. You can fire more shots from the scrambler rifle before overheating if you hammer the trigger very quickly than you can if you do it a bit slower. This is counterintuitive on a weapon which seems to be designed to reward careful shooting.
Secondly, the actual overheat is incredibly frustrating and once you overheat youGÇÖre effectively doomed in a lot of situations. While making the overheat mechanic less restrictive may not be a good thing, as it holds the high fire rate high damage nature of the weapon in check, the mechanic is very frustrating. When you overheat, you canGÇÖt sprint, throw a grenade, or switch to a sidearm. You are forced to strafe slowly or GÇÿbunny hopGÇÖ in order to survive if thereGÇÖs anyone left near you when you overheated. I would like to see the ability to sprint whilst overheated, at the very least.
A possible tweak to keep the overheat mechanic as a significant factor might be to increase the damage from overheating through the variants as seen with the laser rifle.
The assault variant is fine - itGÇÖs similar in effectiveness to the assault rifle, though it has a notably higher clip size.
The overheat mechanic, though it is present, practically never comes into effect with the assault variant unless youGÇÖre specifically trying to overheat the weapon. I think this is okay, given the comparative effectiveness as compared to the assault rifle, but it does seem odd.
[P4] Laser Rifle
This is a weapon that has been quite famously nerfed to uselessness.
Perhaps it was slightly too effective in Chromosome. That was -slightly- though. The Viziam variant was an edge case and that certainly should have had its damage brought back in line.
LetGÇÖs look at the actual state of the weapon.
The rate at which the damage increases seems slower in Uprising than it was in Chromosome, leading to lacklustre damage output, especially when not at the perfect range.
The way ranges work, you have to be in a small window at a perfect range to do your full damage to the target. This is very draconian, especially when you consider that the weapon isnGÇÖt very powerful in the first place. The falloff ranges, which helped every other weapon, did nothing for the laser rifle - it still basically stops doing damage past its optimal range.
The weapon is clearly designed to be long range - however, the range isnGÇÖt high enough to let it fill this role effectively, and having to be in the sweet spot for range forces it too firmly into this role.
The sight for the weapon is awful. The flare from the laser makes it very difficult to see, and the actual ironsight obstructs the view a lot even before that comes into effect.
Overheating is a huge penalty, especially as the weapon isnGÇÖt very effective to begin with. The overheating damage is much much more than with the scrambler rifle, and it increases between tiers. This damage is actually very high, and itGÇÖs easily enough to kill you if youGÇÖre in a gunfight or weakened. ItGÇÖs also very easy to overheat the weapon by accident.
I have a couple of suggested fixes for this.
Firstly, the sight. The sight needs to be changed. Ideally, it should be something much closer to the scrambler rifle sight - open, wide field of vision, with a precise aiming reticule.
As it happens, weGÇÖre getting this! \o/
Secondly, the range. ThereGÇÖs a bit of a quirk about the range on the laser rifle, and that is the falloff range. ItGÇÖs completely abysmal - 4m after the optimal range damage drops to negligible levels, something like 15%.
Delta Iddon made a graph which really illustrates how bad the drop is: http://i.imgur.com/SeduLE7.png
It would be nice to have a saner damage drop-off - not something where itGÇÖs useful out to really long ranges, but a falloff in between the AR and SCR would be beneficial when fighting out at the edge ranges. The optimal range is a harshly restrictive band, and I think it would also benefit from a slight increase in this window.
I also feel that the overheating damage is excessive. There should be a risk to overheating, especially on the higher tiers like the Viziam where itGÇÖs much harder to overheat, but as it stands the overheat damage is enough to instakill a light frame in some cases. A more significant reduction at the lower tiers, where youGÇÖre more likely to overheat, would be beneficial.
I would really like to see discussion on this. This has been a controversial weapon with all the nerfs. The buffs IGÇÖve suggested here have also been conservative, in the interests of not creating a new FotM. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2323
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 23:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
[P5] Heavy Machine Gun
Another one of the weapons causing much consternation amongst the community.
The straight damage output of this weapon is fine, imho. While there have been drastic suggestions like massively increasing the damage, I think those are definitely not necessary. The problem with the HMG, in my opinion, isnGÇÖt the damage output, itGÇÖs the application of that damage.
The huge dispersion of the weapon prevents it from hitting the target as much as it could. It helps in CQC, yes, but at longer ranges (typically where the HMG gets stomped on) it becomes a significant hindrance.
When fighting at range, the HMG doesnGÇÖt only have low optimal range to deal with, but also the horrible dispersion of the shots. The low optimal range forcing it to fight in falloff is enough of a problem, but with the awful dispersion it becomes ineffective.
What IGÇÖd most like to see for the HMG is a reduction in dispersion and an increase in range, so people can fight at range a bit better.
One other silly thing with the HMG is more specific to the heavy suit, but it still affects the HMG, being the only dropsuit able to use it - the turn rate limits are quite silly, and it hurts the HMGGÇÖs effectiveness in CQC, a role at which it should excel.
I think that limit should go completely. Artificially limiting it like that restricts actual skill.
One thing that the HMG does well is the difference in variants. They actually have their own sub-roles, instead of being marginally different versions of the same weapon.
[P6] Mass Driver
This has been another controversial weapon. Previously, it was regarded as useless, and I think I agree. However, buffs have been applied and crucially, the explosion mechanics work much better now. This has changed the weapon from a useless weapon to an actually very effective one.
Currently, the weapon suffers (or benefits hugely from, depending on your perspective) from resistance profiles. Against shields, it does 70%, against armour, it does 135%. This is getting corrected, but I think this can lead to the perception of the weapon being OP, as armour users (a grouchy lot) get butchered by it. It also leads to the perception of it being UP, as shield users shrug off the damage easily.
This is a weapon best left as it is, because thereGÇÖs quite a high risk that itGÇÖll get broken.
IGÇÖm also hesitant to suggest changes until the resistance tweaks come in and the effects of that can be seen.
[P7] Plasma Cannon
On to the Plasma Cannon.
IGÇÖd say this is the most underpowered weapon in dust currently.
LetGÇÖs start off with looking at the current state of the weapon.
Here are the stats for the standard plasma cannon:
1050 direct damage
285 splash damage
3.5m blast
0.6 charge up time
1 clip size
9 spare
3.5s reload time
The direct damage, despite apparently being an AV weapon, is too low to make a meaningful impact on any vehicle, especially as you only get the one shot.
The splash damage is adequate, though perhaps a little though considering the single shot nature of the weapon.
The blast radius is too small. For a massive anti-vehicle weapon, youGÇÖd expect the splash to be a little more. Currently, itGÇÖs lower than the standard mass driver, even when the PLC is at the prototype level.
The charge up time is frankly sadistic considering how slow moving the projectile is and how small the splash radius is, making it much harder to hit with it, as hard as it is already.
The 1 clip size is a hindrance, but itGÇÖs one of the aspects of the weapon that I think shouldnGÇÖt be changed. The ammo count is okay for a single shot per clip weapon.
The reload time is awkwardly long - if you miss, youGÇÖre harshly punished and you need to use a sidearm instead, generally. It also gives vehicles a chance to escape before you hit them again so you do more than negligible damage.
The projectile speed is horrendously slow, making it very easy to see it coming and get out of the way in time. It makes it very difficult to hit with.
In summary, there are problems. A lot of them, and they make the plasma cannon much less effective than it could be.
HereGÇÖs what I would suggest:
1. An increase in direct damage so that it actually performs its AV role.
2. An increase in projectile speed so that it hits the target much quicker, without allowing them to run a mile before it gets near them.
3. Either axe the charge time completely or reduce it to something like 0.2 seconds.
4. Increase the splash radius a lot - itGÇÖs a big ball of plasma thatGÇÖs designed to burn through vehicles bursting over the ground, and this would let it actually hit things much more easily.The sheer difficulty of hitting things with the plasma cannon should be compensated for a little with the splash radius, and more importantly it would allow it to hit multiple targets - you could use it as a mortar like area denial weapon.
5. There also appears to be an effect where after firing a shot from the plasma cannon it takes a long second to switch to a sidearm. This is potentially lethal to the user.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2323
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 23:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
[P8] Flaylock Pistol
This was nerfed quite well, and itGÇÖs now a reasonable weapon, edging on underpowered. The nerf was a tiny bit more than was needed, but itGÇÖs not awful.
I donGÇÖt really have much to say on this one because I think itGÇÖs fine.
[P9] Scrambler Pistol
As a whole, scrambler pistols are in a fairly good place right now, with their excellent headshot damage potential it creates a good niche for them - if you can score a headshot with a breach in CQC you actually deserve that instakill.
The balancing of the class does, however, suffer from a few odd quirks which mean that some variants are overshadowed by the others.
Chiefly, there is no real reason to use a normal scrambler pistol over an assault scrambler pistol - the assault scrambler has a higher rate of fire for no notable drawbacks. There should be a difference between the two, I think, so that thereGÇÖs a reason to pick one or the other in different situations, making it worth a variant rather than just having one rendered irrevenant.
The burst scrambler pistol is a good example of a variant which is substantially different, whilst still fitting the class, as is the breach.
ThereGÇÖs another anomaly with the scrambler pistol class and thatGÇÖs the IA5 Tactical Scrambler Pistol. This weapon is salvage only, but it should still be subject to balancing and I suspect itGÇÖll appear on the market at some point anyway, being an ADV level weapon.
The tactical scrambler pistol is hardly different from the normal or assault variants.
ItGÇÖs pointless to use this over an assault variant because though you have the same RoF, you have lower damage, and also quite importantly a smaller clip size.
HereGÇÖs a comparison:
TT-3 Assault Scrambler Pistol:
84 damage
466.7 RPM
53.0 accuracy
6 clip size
IA5 Tactical Scrambler Pistol:
79 damage
466.7 RPM
53.0 accuracy
5 clip size
So the assault variant has 5 more damage and 1 more round in the clip than the tactical variant, overall simply surpassing it, meaning the tactical isnGÇÖt a viable variant.
To fix these issues I would suggest making the assault scrambler pistol a slightly higher RoF weapon, lower damage weapon than the standard variant - not so much as to tread on the burst variantGÇÖs toes, but enough to differentiate it from the normal one.
The tactical scrambler pistol could receive similar treatment, but the other way - lower RoF, higher damage, finding a middle ground between the breach variant and the normal variant.
Overall, the scrambler pistol just seems to have a few too many variants. The only real issues with it are because the variants are invalidating each other, and not because thereGÇÖs a problem with the weapon class.
[P10] Submachine Gun
Much like the scrambler pistol, this weapon is in a good place right now, but some of its variants are a little off.
The assault and normal variants of this weapon donGÇÖt really have any differences, apart from ones which make the assault variant marginally superior.
LetGÇÖs compare the M512-A Submachine Gun and the M209 Assault Submachine Gun.
The M512-A has:
24.1 damage
1000.0 RPM
52.3 accuracy
80 clip size
The M209 has:
24.1 damage
1052.6 RPM
52.2 accuracy
80 clip size
The only differences between the two variants are a 52.6 rpm gap and a 0.1 accuracy point difference. ThatGÇÖs all.
I donGÇÖt think itGÇÖs worth having different variants if theyGÇÖre going to be so similar.
The breach SMG has quite a drastic RoF drop from the other variants for a comparatively mediocre damage hike. The dps of the weapon is significantly lower than the other variants in its class - At 535.7 RPM, itGÇÖs about half the RoF (1000, or 1052.6) of the other submachine guns for something like 40% more damage, 32.6 as opposed to 24.1.
IGÇÖm using the numbers for the advanced class only here, but it should illustrate the point for all of them just fine:
The normal SMG has 401.6 dps. The assault SMG has 422.8 dps. The breach SMG has 291 dps.
ThatGÇÖs a pretty huge drop, considering you just get a little bit better accuracy for it and a different firing configuration.
I think that these weapons should be differentiated a bit more - for example, the breach SMG could use a range buff so that itGÇÖs a bit longer range, at the cost of some dps. The assault variant could be a higher RoF, lower damage variant than the normal SMG as well, so that thereGÇÖs a real reason to pick an SMG type.
[P11] Shotgun
The shotgun is a weapon that suffers very ,very badly from the hit detection we have currently. At close range, itGÇÖs crucial landing that shotgun round, and itGÇÖs very frustrating (and stupid) when a shot that should have hit misses.
The shotgun also suffers from the failures of the light frame.
IGÇÖm not sure there are really any problems inherent with the weapon, and if there are I canGÇÖt really see them in the current build. If youGÇÖre a shotgunner please go ahead and chime in, but I think proper hit detection is whatGÇÖs really needed for the shotgun.
IGÇÖve heard from some that thereGÇÖs a range issue, but I havenGÇÖt really found that myself. Correct me if IGÇÖm wrong.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2323
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 23:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
[P12] Nova Knives
Nova knives are always going to be a lol weapon really, unless theyGÇÖre hopelessly overpowered (somehow).
Due to the way they work, I think there simply isnGÇÖt much to be done. I know some people complain when their protosuit gets stabbed in the back and instakilled by charged proto nova knives, but frankly if you get killed like that you deserved it.
Nova knives need to be able to sprint while charged, though. IGÇÖm pretty sure thatGÇÖs not in yet.
[P13] Sniper Rifle
Sniper rifles have a bit of an issue with the risk vs reward paradigm, it would seem.
Being a super long ranged weapon, theyGÇÖre designed to stay away from combat, but with current mechanics this enables them to do a couple of things.
Chiefly, they can sit deep behind their redline where the only thing that can really kill them is a countersnipe. IGÇÖm not a fan of this - I understand that there is kind of a need for a redline, and itGÇÖs an ancient debate, but when you can sit back behind the redline with no risk to yourself except countersniping, I donGÇÖt think thatGÇÖs good balance.
ThereGÇÖs an ideal gameplay principle called GÇÿcounterplayGÇÖ, essentially where everything has a counter to it which isnGÇÖt itself, and thatGÇÖs somewhat lacking with redline snipers.
The upcoming TACNET changes could be quite bad for the sniperGÇÖs teamplay role - much of their utility for a squad is in tagging things onto the TACNET, and when thatGÇÖs gone theyGÇÖre not much more than K/DR padding tools.
So the main problems with this class arenGÇÖt with the weapon itself, theyGÇÖre with the role definition and dubious mechanics (the redline).
Something that IGÇÖd like to suggest would be that snipers should be able to tag players onto the TACNET for the entire team, and not just themselves. This gives them a unique ability and role definition as overwatch for the team.
Aside from these mechanical issues, there are a couple of balance problems within the class.
The first is the charge sniper rifle. When sniping, alpha damage, the initial damage that you put down, is very important. If it takes multiple shots to down the target, it alerts them and gives them a chance to get to cover.
Consider, then, that the Ishukone sniper rifle damage is 229.9.
Then consider that the Charged sniper rifle damage is 321.9.
The Charged sniper rifle can hold its charge. This means that it can charge up whilst looking for a target - it doesnGÇÖt suffer from the charge time much when taking the initial shot, and it only needs to be on target for a moment. This front loaded damage effect makes the weapon very effective compared to others in its class, especially with damage mods. If you get a headshot with damage mods, you will almost certainly score an instant kill with this weapon. ThatGÇÖs very easy to do due to the nature of this weapon, only needing to be on target for a moment.
Thus, I think that the charge sniper rifle shouldnGÇÖt hold its charge. That way, it gives you a very high reward for keeping on target, and prevents such easy instant kills.
The second issue is the ThaleGÇÖs.
Yes, itGÇÖs an officerGÇÖs weapon. Yes, itGÇÖs salvage only and rare.
But itGÇÖs so far out of the league of the normal sniper rifles itGÇÖs ridiculous.
It has the same firing capabilities as the Ishukone - meaning that it fires shots instantly and doesnGÇÖt need to charge. It also has a decent RoF.
It has 355.3 damage.
ThatGÇÖs massive. ThatGÇÖs 50% higher than the Ishukone rifle, and it can one shot practically any suit with headshots, which it can snap off instantly.
ItGÇÖs an officerGÇÖs weapon, but itGÇÖs too far beyond the realms of normal weapons.
Could the damage for this be brought back in line a little bit?
[P14] Grenades
Grenades are another one of those ubiquitous weapons.
I think currently theyGÇÖre a little too ubiquitous.
Currently, you can carry three of them and they get restocked by portable items which you again can carry multiple of.
Consider that a Core Locus Grenade is practically a personal nuclear weapon and spamming these becomes a very dangerous prospect.
A Core Locus Grenade does 600 damage. This is easily enough to 1 hit most suits straight out, and the damage doesnGÇÖt reduce much over the large splash area of 7.2m. This is very powerful on its own. This is the outlier, of course, but 400 damage over 6m is still fearsome, and the sheer number of grenades available makes them spammable.
Right now, everyone has plenty of grenades and itGÇÖs easy to get more. When someone ducks into cover, nobody thinks of flanking him or tactically outwitting him, they think of throwing grenades in there to kill him straight off, because they have so many they can just chuck them repeatedly at anyone who does that.
And everyone has this same idea, because grenades are so plentiful.
Grenades are fine in terms of killing potential right now, but the sheer numbers are not fine at all. The grenade rain that happens any time someone is in cover isnGÇÖt fun for either side - especially as the alternative is tactics rich gameplay like flanking.
I think that carrying capacity for grenades should definitely be reduced - 3 grenades is far too many - 2 would be better, at least. Another suggestion I have would be to stop them being restocked from nanohives and limit them to being restocked at supply depots. This increases the strategic value of supply depots whilst simultaneously preventing standing in a nanohive spamming grenades at anything that moves.
This concludes the thread. Weaponry is a very debatable topic. What are your thoughts?
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2324
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 23:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:I agree leave the mass driver as is but it needs a little more ammo. Nothing a nanohive can't do but still. The flay lock pistol is pretty much useless due to the hit detection. The radius got screwed, and sometimes hits don't register. I tend to use the smg now, pretty much deleted my flay lock suits. I did agree it was op dmg wise but they over did the nerf with the radius
That's worth considering for the flaylock.
I didn't want to write much about it because I wanted to see how things developed a little bit first.
I'll definitely think about it when I write a longer section, though. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2353
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 08:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:
The standard AR has too large a magazine, is too accurate, caries too much ammo overall, and has too short a TTK to properly fill it's role as a generalist weapon. It is simply out shining too many weapons, and where niche weapons are actually better, there not better by a large enough amount.
I agree with the size of the magazine and the accuracy (in that there isn't enough recoil) but I don't agree with the TTK. The damage output would be fine if you couldn't maintain it for ages and if it wasn't all applied due to the accuracy. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2357
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 15:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:Here's another little compilation of player feedback on the AR
Thanks for that, was an interesting read.
The scaling was a little wider than I'd recommend though. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2362
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 23:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Buster Friently wrote:
The standard AR has too large a magazine, is too accurate, caries too much ammo overall, and has too short a TTK to properly fill it's role as a generalist weapon. It is simply out shining too many weapons, and where niche weapons are actually better, there not better by a large enough amount.
I agree with the size of the magazine and the accuracy (in that there isn't enough recoil) but I don't agree with the TTK. The damage output would be fine if you couldn't maintain it for ages and if it wasn't all applied due to the accuracy. Clip size is fine, shots are bound to miss and this is a strafing game, not a twitch shooter.
Debatable, but recoil must absolutely happen. |
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2441
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 22:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Revelations 514 wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Buster Friently wrote:
No, I think I'll still be pointing out that killing the diversity of the game is actually a problem.
The players are killing the diversity, nothing else. It's the eaiest to use, people will stop using it only if it was nerfed to uselessness. Also, the assault scrambler rifle is the same and yet it's less used, to make people move there you will have to make the assault rifle worse. As a Scout, I have an easier time dodging SCR fire than AR fire. Probably due to the scope as RoF seems to be neglibible in this comparison. SCR has an overheat mechanic SCR gives away it's owner's position when fired to a greater degree, (bright beams of light) Built-in Scope makes it slightly tougher to use in all situations So, while it's not a perfect balance, it's still better balanced than auto AR's. Auto AR's still rule the day as it has none of the above downsides in comparison. It is also not due to exposure and what someone has already skilled into. I can own with a militia fit using the frontline with 0 sp invested. Moreso than I can with a SG with level 5 on everything but ammo capacity, even in CQC. Thats just the basic (since tradeoff should be SG is better at CQC, it's really not consistently better even with an SP variance of a coupla million). Also, what about end game? Proto Duvolle is meta level 9, Proto SG is meta 7. This is accurate as the Shotgun costs more in both fitting requirements and isk, (even with skills into SG), but has less stats in every single category. Try killing 3 people with an SG without reloading. Even if you score every single hit, (and you wont), you cannot do it. Try the same thing with the AR, I bet you do it once a game. This is even without the requirement of scoring each hit, which is actually easier to do with the damn AR, although I blame that on the lack of SG love. Sigh... ASSAULT SCR! ASSAULT! THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO! -_-
Indeed. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2444
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 22:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:I agree with most the OP posted .
Except:
on PLASMA CANNONS:
''1. An increase in direct damage so that it actually performs its AV role.''
Im okay with all the other buffs requested by the op, but the damage should stay the same.
If you increase the damage of the Plasma cannon, you nerf the forge gun.
The forgegun damage is a mere 1320 (or so) at standard level only 300 more than a plasma cannon at the cost of having to use the slowest piece of **** suit in the game.
Sure , plasmas should fire faster rounds , with more splash damage and have faster reload speed. I do agree on that.
But the damage should be reserved for the ones that sacrifice speed to get it.
The main reason I'd say increase the damage is because the plasma cannon is a single shot weapon, whereas the forge gun can fire several.
I'm not actually an AV specialist, as evidenced by me not covering forge guns/swarm launchers, so you may well be right to say this.
KING CHECKMATE wrote:
On SMG's:
''2.The assault and normal variants of this weapon donGÇÖt really have any differences, apart from ones which make the assault variant marginally superior.''
I use Proto SMG's as main weapon ever since the Shotgun became unusable for me.
I will tell you whats the difference between ISHI Assault SMG and Six Kin SMG. About 20000+K.
And the difference on preformance is nearly NONE. So i obviously stayed with Six Kin SMG.
The assault variant need or either some kind of buff ( a nice Range buff would be nice) or either a price drop.
I do agree to that Breach SMG is a piece of ****.
Thats all. Great post overall.
Oh! You're right! ISK difference actually does matter, after all.
Thanks for the feedback - I'll redo the SMG section a little.
EDIT: Done. What do you think of my suggested changes to them? |
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