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God Anpu TheImmortal
The Pyramid Order
Only The Famous
30
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Posted - 2013.08.04 21:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
The range of the hmg needs to match that if the AR'S PERIOD. Why is that the AR can still hit at 70 plus meters hit at full damage and the heavy even having and assault machine gun can barely scrape someone. Also u guys took the Six kin bursts spitfire officer heavy weapon. Once again the assault and other classes have several option and u take and take from the heavy never giving back. You guys talk about balance how can an heavy machine gun not hit at the same range. I'm so sick of u CCP treating the heavies like were not even in the game |
Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
323
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Posted - 2013.08.04 21:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
2 dmg buff and a slightly longer range buff for the hmg and then nerf the ar's range or take away the sharpshooter skill honestly theres nothing wrong with the hmg you really just want another heavy suit. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3834
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Posted - 2013.08.04 22:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because the HMG has the highest DPS out of any handheld weapon and if it had killing power at 60m it would be OP  |
xSir Campsalotx
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
69
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Posted - 2013.08.04 22:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
I've accepted the HMGs short range but I think it should have the damage to make it a short range weapon, account for dispersion when figuring stats, because all the damage in the world doesn't mean anything if you can't apply it consistently. |
xSir Campsalotx
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
69
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Posted - 2013.08.04 22:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Because the HMG has the highest DPS out of any handheld weapon and if it had killing power at 60m it would be OP
Your wrong and way off, that's the scrambler rifle.
Proto HMG 19.8x 33.33=660Dps
Proto SCR 79.8 x 11.77=939Dps
The gap further worsens when you account for dispersion, 660Dps applied at 70% of the time=462DPS
Hell the proto AR does more DPS
37.5x12.5=469Dps
Proto ASCR 39.7x11.77=467
So man just clarify a few points
Proto Scrambler 939Dps
Proto AR 469Dps
Proto ASCR 467Dps
Proto HMG 462 Dps
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Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
88
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Posted - 2013.08.04 23:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dispersion is a big problem for heavies. It makes hitting enemies in close quarters harder than it should be. I would be fine with the HMG's range if there was less dispersion. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2323
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Posted - 2013.08.04 23:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Because the HMG has the highest DPS out of any handheld weapon and if it had killing power at 60m it would be OP Your wrong and way off, that's the scrambler rifle. Proto HMG 19.8x 33.33=660Dps Proto SCR 79.8 x 11.77=939Dps
Have you ever even fired a scrambler rifle?
You can't do that except on paper because of overheat. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
1060
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Posted - 2013.08.05 00:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:xSir Campsalotx wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Because the HMG has the highest DPS out of any handheld weapon and if it had killing power at 60m it would be OP Your wrong and way off, that's the scrambler rifle. Proto HMG 19.8x 33.33=660Dps Proto SCR 79.8 x 11.77=939Dps Have you ever even fired a scrambler rifle? You can't do that except on paper because of overheat.
15 shots till overheat plus its semi-auto and that can take its dps some.(18~ with the amarr bonus i think)
but 15 shots =1188 damage,if you hit every shot.
the HMG can fire for much longer and has a higher DPS then other full auto weapons.
sounds balance to me, SCR has a overheat so forcing good shot placement while the HMG is a lot more forgiving but has lower DPS because of that. |
God Anpu TheImmortal
The Pyramid Order
Only The Famous
31
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 00:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:I've accepted the HMGs short range but I think it should have the damage to make it a short range weapon, account for dispersion when figuring stats, because all the damage in the world doesn't mean anything if you can't apply it consistently.
That's the point most have a heavy machine has never been a short range weapon it's a long range weapon period just because ccp made it useless so the little classes would shut up |
Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
88
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 00:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
ladwar wrote:and has a higher DPS then other full auto weapons. Not really. Factor in dispersion and it's actually much lower. |
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Thurak1
Psygod9
RISE of LEGION
31
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Posted - 2013.08.05 00:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Yea the DPS is correct for the HMG i think but the dispersion is just terrible. |
GET ATMESON
Robbing The Hood
95
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Posted - 2013.08.05 00:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
God Anpu TheImmortal wrote:The range of the hmg needs to match that if the AR'S PERIOD. Why is that the AR can still hit at 70 plus meters hit at full damage and the heavy even having and assault machine gun can barely scrape someone. Also u guys took the Six kin bursts spitfire officer heavy weapon. Once again the assault and other classes have several option and u take and take from the heavy never giving back. You guys talk about balance how can an heavy machine gun not hit at the same range. I'm so sick of u CCP treating the heavies like were not even in the game
I just read the first part of this and my god. I have been playing as a heavy from Feb. Heavys dont need anymore range then they all ready do. I DO NOT WANT MY GUN BUFFED OR NERFED. Leave it alone. AR are meant to have range. Heavys are CQC masters if you can play right. I never used range on my heavy. Even in the old build. Range isnt needed at all. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
1061
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 00:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Canaan Knute wrote:ladwar wrote:and has a higher DPS then other full auto weapons. Not really. Factor in dispersion and it's actually much lower.
factor in hipfire then.... GTFO. its not a rifle, stop asking for range. its the big brother of the SMG and thats what is needs to be compared to. its like comparing the shotgun to a sniper rifle for DPS it makes no sense to do it then asking for the range of the sniper rifle on a shotgun.
when the SMG out dps the HMG you'll have a point. when the AR out dps the HMG at 5m let me know. so far that doesn't happen. the HMG is not meant for range its a bullet hose and dispersion is a factor in bullet hoses. you want range grab a rifle, you want a bullet hose go back to the HMG, you can't have both. |
Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
88
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 01:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
ladwar wrote:factor in hipfire then.... GTFO. its not a rifle, stop asking for range.
its the big brother of the SMG and thats what is needs to be compared to. its like comparing the shotgun to a sniper rifle for DPS it makes no sense to do it then asking for the range of the sniper rifle on a shotgun.
when the SMG out dps the HMG you'll have a point. when the AR out dps the HMG at 5m let me know. so far that doesn't happen. the HMG is not meant for range its a bullet hose and dispersion is a factor in bullet hoses. you want range grab a rifle, you want a bullet hose go back to the HMG, you can't have both. I wasn't asking for range. See the straw man fallacy.
The HMG is supposed to excel in close quarters combat, but it's not as effective as it should be in that regard, thanks to CCP's changes. Lower dispersion would help with that. |
God Anpu TheImmortal
The Pyramid Order
Only The Famous
31
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 01:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
GET ATMESON wrote:God Anpu TheImmortal wrote:The range of the hmg needs to match that if the AR'S PERIOD. Why is that the AR can still hit at 70 plus meters hit at full damage and the heavy even having and assault machine gun can barely scrape someone. Also u guys took the Six kin bursts spitfire officer heavy weapon. Once again the assault and other classes have several option and u take and take from the heavy never giving back. You guys talk about balance how can an heavy machine gun not hit at the same range. I'm so sick of u CCP treating the heavies like were not even in the game I just read the first part of this and my god. I have been playing as a heavy from Feb. Heavys dont need anymore range then they all ready do. I DO NOT WANT MY GUN BUFFED OR NERFED. Leave it alone. AR are meant to have range. Heavys are CQC masters if you can play right. I never used range on my heavy. Even in the old build. Range isnt needed at all.
Lol you must be a lazy paper heavy never seen u on the battle field and I have been playing as long as u if not longer and range let's us engage, suppress and also allows us to take cover and move to get in for the kill. I'm not asking for us to be over powered u nerd simply to have a reliable realistic even though this is a video game weapon |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9
RISE of LEGION
70
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 04:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
HMGs can get a tad bit more range. Make the Assault variant more for CQC and give it a buff for short range, leave the boundless as is, but give it the current assault's range. |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
213
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 05:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP doesn't know what they want to do with the HMGs. During the dark days of ten to fifteen meter range I honestly think the Devs figured the weapon was going to be fairly dangerous. Hell if they wanted to treat it more like a Chain Gun those ranges would have been fine if the DPS was high enough to at least level out the weapon and DS drawbacks.
I have no opinion on the weapon range. On the occasions it does come out the reason is to break things up and have some Doom fun. It is a hard weapon to take seriously at this time. |
Arcturis Vanguard
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
62
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Posted - 2013.08.05 06:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'm not completely sure on how I truly feel about the HMG. I have made kills that seemed pretty far for the weapon. Though at times in CQC it feels like I'm hitting people with rubber balls. This could just be a hit detection issue.
At times I Miss the raw killing power from chromosome, but I make the gun work for me.
My major problem I have with the gun is the kick of the boundless. I find it frustrating that I have to fight the gun to keep on target (Damn bunny hoppers :P) compared to the mh 82. The damage increase, which is only .9 from advanced to prototype, seems light for the draw back of recoil.
All in all I'm happy with the gun, I just want something other then the amarr suit... |
Cat Merc
DUST CORE
DARKSTAR ARMY
3862
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 07:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
I love how everyone says "DISPERSION BLARG".
Do you think everyone else is 100% accurate?
Numbers isn't everything. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
83
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Posted - 2013.08.05 08:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
God Anpu TheImmortal wrote:The range of the hmg needs to match that if the AR'S PERIOD. Why is that the AR can still hit at 70 plus meters hit at full damage and the heavy even having and assault machine gun can barely scrape someone. Also u guys took the Six kin bursts spitfire officer heavy weapon. Once again the assault and other classes have several option and u take and take from the heavy never giving back. You guys talk about balance how can an heavy machine gun not hit at the same range. I'm so sick of u CCP treating the heavies like were not even in the game
Full Damage at 70 m thats pretty unlikely for a normal AR the optimal Range of the AR ist somewhat around 40m for the assault variant 50m for the burst variant and 60 to 70 for the tac. Damage falloff for the AR is quite noticeable and the standard does only around 20% damage at 70m. So you encountered either a TAC AR and then its ok as the TAC AR is supposed to be a mid to long Range weapon or you got your distance wrong...
I agree that the AR tree need some tweaks.
- The Assault version needs more DPS and less Range
- the Breach needs a lot more Range
- The burst needs a bit less Range
- the TAC needs less Rage than the ScR (makes no sense that the Gal version of the TActical has more Range than the ScR) |
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Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
91
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Posted - 2013.08.05 08:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I love how everyone says "DISPERSION BLARG".
Do you think everyone else is 100% accurate?
Numbers isn't everything. How is that relevant? Nobody's asking CCP to reduce the HMG's dispersion to 0. We just want it to be slightly more accurate. |
xSir Campsalotx
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
70
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Posted - 2013.08.05 13:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:xSir Campsalotx wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Because the HMG has the highest DPS out of any handheld weapon and if it had killing power at 60m it would be OP Your wrong and way off, that's the scrambler rifle. Proto HMG 19.8x 33.33=660Dps Proto SCR 79.8 x 11.77=939Dps Have you ever even fired a scrambler rifle? You can't do that except on paper because of overheat. 15 shots till overheat plus its semi-auto and that can take its dps some.(18~ with the amarr bonus i think) but 15 shots =1188 damage,if you hit every shot. the HMG can fire for much longer and has a higher DPS then other full auto weapons. sounds balance to me, SCR has a overheat so forcing good shot placement while the HMG is a lot more forgiving but has lower DPS because of that.
I've seen people do it consistently, the first time I noticed it was when a friend of mine dropped a proto heavy in a quick burst, full health and dead. The problem with this is the HMG is a heavy weapon and should be a more powerful weapon but as you can see the other full auto light weapons out dps the HMG. Dps doesn't account for skill only a mathematical term used to provide possible damage out put which is further limited and determined by player skill. Again no check the math the HMG a heavy weapon has less Dps than quite a few full auto light weapons. |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9
RISE of LEGION
71
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 13:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
If the dispersion is so awfully spread out, then why does the HMG not connect with infantry running around? Are the rounds outside of the center of the cone of fire just blanks? Buff the damage so the HMG performs the DPS it is advertising now, have every single round fired cause damage, or admit that the HMG, a heavy weapon, gets out performed by little ARs and ScRs.
PS give another 15% distance on effective range. |
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