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Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege
General Tso's Alliance
104
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Posted - 2013.08.03 07:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since uprising
1) We suffered a stamina nerf by %, which hits us the hardest
2) Lost major ground on speed discrepency to improve hit detection (we are .4 faster than our assault counterparts)
3) Sprinting ramps up our hitbox so players don't feel bad for missing us
4) We entirely lost our strafe advantage by allowing other suits to enjoy our speed advantage there
5) Now we are "sharing" our turn speed with every suit
This is like some sort of bizarre welfare system we have here, and we weren't the rich guys to begin with.
I highly doubt we are going to "share" or "equalize" slots or hp between suits.
Most likely I'm being whiny and silly here but I am honestly starting to think CCP has no intentions at all on fleshing out the scout. We literally get zero consideration, its one thing to not be fixed for half a year, since there are many tasks at hand and you got to start somewhere when building up the game, but the slow and dependable nerfs we receive feels like a very slow death.
Its to the point that scouts are only viable in pub matches because they don't matter, even if your have a positive kdr, the fact that you are taking up a spot which a better unit can with less strain maintain a 3 or 4.0 ratio or better is what hurts the team, its to the point where I avoid tournaments and PC because I'm hitting a 2.0 ratio scout barrier, which I am able to break as a militia medium frame which I have recently discovered. LAVs and Logis fill in the other roles better for what is needed in those situations.
Which I am also partial to the concepts of lighter units, which certainly dust is not obligated to cater to but that factor makes dust look like it is geared to a very vanilla and standardize player base, it definitely loses its appeal since my impression of the unique factor fades and that is what really holds any game for the long term. Dust is a very heavy slayer focused game and scouts can't really hit that role quite well.
One last piece I think that multiplies this image is that since the vast majority of players are concentrated with using only a few chosen weapon and suits types, the tactics for combating these become stale with a rinse and repeat after taste so even success feels less rewarding.
I'd think my prospects of this game would improve if CCP unfolded some sort of skeleton road map for scouts, even if they are buffing other more niche weapons and suits I think that would spice up scout life on the basis of more variety, since half the fun of the scout is thinking how to manipulate your opposition to breach their defenses to get the kill.
Anyways, what are your thoughts on this, scouts and or general variety?
And of course thank you for your time and patience.
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Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege
General Tso's Alliance
111
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Posted - 2013.08.03 18:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:I have a strong feeling that CCP will be doing suit balancing in 1.4 so until the 20th of this month I think you should hold tight and cross your fingers.
I don't think the light suits are on the radar in the next few paches, I know the active scanner is so there is some hope there but I would expect anything for scouts specifically until 2014. |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege
General Tso's Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 02:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Oswald Rehnquist wrote:
I don't think the light suits are on the radar in the next few patches...
So we're getting a stealth buff? No longer on the radar? 
Well I don't think anybody is going to be on the radar based on what the devs are testing for the scanners, so yeah, stealth buff for all |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege
General Tso's Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 02:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote:Cosgar wrote:They've been nerfing scouts since Replication. pretty damn much heavys are not untouched either A lot of the scout's issues come from the constant speed nerf. When overall movement speed got nerfed, scouts got hit the hardest out off all the frame sizes. They really need an all around 10% speed increase, higher base stamina and more movement options like a larger jump height or even a double jump. For example, you know that little building next to A on the line harvest map? A scout should be able to jump high enough to land on top of that. EDIT: Just another random idea that popped in my head: Maybe scouts should be able to jump the full height of any completely vertical structure or have more movement options to get into hard to reach areas like maybe wall crawling, wall jumps, and the the ability to jump from extreme heights without taking fall damage.
Fall damage on scouts needs to be nerfed, and I cosign increasing speed discrepancy, the other movement options would be very hard to explain without requiring some sort of module or equipment item to explain them, which a cloaking device could also work as a survival method for leaving and entering encounters. |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege
General Tso's Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 02:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Actually, from what folks who did their homework told me, the sprint only expands the collision box, not the hit box.
What's the difference, you ask?
The hit box is what's used to register hits whenever a bullet or AoE weapons touches it. However, the collision box is completely separate from the hit box and it's what causes you to bump into things. The collision box is the problem because if you sprint you will not be able to fit into tight spaces that you would otherwise fit through if you just walked. The folks from A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. researched this problem.
EDIT:
The hit box is actually so tight against the avatar model that you now have to actually aim at the part of the avatar model (such as a limb or the head and torso) in order to do some damage.
You are right I did miss that, good catch |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege
General Tso's Alliance
114
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 19:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:I just don't know what to do at this point in their efforts to make the larger assault community happy they are shafting the scout,vehicles, and heavy frames making them easier to kill to have them become less of a threat and in turn making said assault players more powerful in the field.
It's smart on their part to attempt to keep the largest part of the community but in the manner they're doing it is pushing the other parts of the community into mistrusting CCP and breeding hate towards the assault community by the other classes
Without directly quoting, Post 30 in the "So, the active scanner.." also brings up that cloaking is still on the table, so it means that cloaking is really far off or that we might not get it at all, which means we are really going to have to be refocused to be buffed towards heavy glass cannon and debuffing roles or negative logis roles.
I'm sure CCP has already came up with something, this is what I currently think scouts should break down like this
Min Scout:
Skill: +60% to grenade count per slot per level (rounded down)
Suit: Second Grenade slot (can cycle through grenades by pressing O, holding O to hold both in your hand)
Boom, this Min Scout gives us our glass cannon grenadier, its a role that is currently not fulfilled by any assault unit. This class would be a good tackler against large mobs and vehicles (especially once vehicles get buffed) being able to hit with then with the best type or going for large damage and radius by tossing two at the same time. Obviously the main source of SP will be through kills.
Gal Scout:
Skill:+10% Active Scanner range and recharge rate per level
Suit: Scan Profile 35 dB, Scan Radius 25 M, Scan Precision 50
This will generate our seeker/Lurker of the scouts, the extra range and frequency of the scans will help them generate more WPs by having more targets painted constantly. It also serves to steal the active scanner away from Logis due to trade offs. In addition to more scan points, having the intel up frequently allows this scout to get the drop on more people, making it a solid flanker.
A GAL/MIN Scout squad would be devastating if ran together,
For the two unreleased scouts I think the following would work
Cal Scout:
Skill: +15% potency to EWAR Equipment
Suit:+1 Equipment Slot, ECCM Bonus
I used potency because scouts will never beat the cpu/pg of the logi, better effectiveness is where I am taking this scout. Essentially serves as a debuffer by disabling functions and by adding a lot of noise to Tacnet. While we can theory craft all the form of EWAR, I think its pretty self explanatory at the moment. I also find the philosophical difference between Caldari creating noise and false information while the Gallente provide accurate information. Cal Scout will be the slowest scout relying on misinformation to get in and out of danger.
Ama Scout:
Skill: +10% Armor Repair and Shield Regen Per level.
Suit: High EHP for a Scout, HIgh CPU/PG for a Scout, Armor Repair 10 HP/S
Sine Amarr are stuck as duel tankers, and Scouts are known for regen, I thought this would work out. This is a beefier and slower scout (again FOR A SCOUT) who I think would operate at far mid range that can survive at least 1 second of dps, who also has the ability o fit more high cpu/pg fittings than other scouts.
So with an overall analysis we have
Min Scout: Glass Cannon (Assault lite)
Gal Scout: Seeker/Lurker (Pure Scout)
Cal Scout: Debuffer (Negative Logi)
Ama Scout: Regen/Harrasser (Tank lite)
Which fits the logis template as well
Min Logi (Scout lite)
Gal Logi (pure logi)
Cal Logi (Tank Lite)
Amar Logi (Assault Lite) |
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