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Aleksander Black
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 00:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
As we are right now the Orbital Strikes requested in public matches are not delivered by EVE players. Only orbital strikes in PC and FW are delivered by EVE players, which results in only a minor part of EVE players interacting with DUST players and only a minor part of DUST players interacting with EVE players.
Now, since public matches do take place in temperate planets scattered across new eden's high sec anyway, why not create districs for them and let players in high sec do the bombardment? I realize that the number of districs could act as a limiting factor for the maximum number of simultaneous public matches happening if you did this, however... If you use the high sec districs only as "adresses" where more than a single battle could take a place at the same time (effectively diferent matches at the same district) you would solve that problem and increase the number of orbital bombardment requests per districs (supposing you do have enough battles to fill them all).
Only thing you would need in the EVE side is a little reward for the capsuleer that goes through the trouble of helping the mercs. Maybe the NPC Corporation that contracted the Mercs calling for the OB could pay... 200k? modified by standings, or even a little bit of standing boost. I can say that EVE players will be more than happy to blow us up if they can make some isk in the safety of high sec out of it. Hell, they spend hours mining, running from planet to planet looking for mercs to kill can't be more boring than that. Specially if they get killmails... EVE players love killmails.
What would we achieve with this? Making the EVE - DUST connection more solid. Maybe mercs could start to spam local while in Barge requesting assistence from players in the system (supposing you actually change your local channel while deployed, which I'm unsure of). EVE players would actually get more content and another way to make a living (the isk reward may easily be adjusted to not be too much nor too little. And I'm supposing it wouldn't be so hard to implement it since almost all of the aspects involved already exist. Would require some cooperation from EVE Developers, but doesn't sound like a completely insane idea from a developing point of view - no art assets, only some adjustments to the districs functionality... At least for me, I may be wrong and if so I'm sorry.
Only downside would be that you are not 100% guaranteed to have your OBs delivered. This isn't necessarilly a downside, though. I particulary think it's a good idea to promote relations between Mercs and Capsuleers, even in high sec, and let the Mercenaries with the best connections enjoy some advantage. If this is really an issue you could always make an NPC do the bombardment if an capsuleer doesn't respond in, say 30 seconds or 1 minute.
That's it. What do you think? |
Killar-12
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
390
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 00:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Give the capsuleer 1 million ISK per kill. |
Karazantor
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
128
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 00:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
I like the sound of it - can't be bothered arranging allies in space? No kills for you with your OB super weapon.
Be prepared for the hate mail though. |
Aleksander Black
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 01:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Give the capsuleer 1 million ISK per kill.
1 million definitely sounds too much. Some balance would have to be made, but assuming you can bombard nonstop just warping around in the same system it would have to be way less to be in line with, say, mining isk/hour. It would be damn more fun though. |
Karazantor
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
128
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 01:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aleksander Black wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Give the capsuleer 1 million ISK per kill. 1 million definitely sounds too much. Some balance would have to be made, but assuming you can bombard nonstop just warping around in the same system it would have to be way less to be in line with, say, mining isk/hour. It would be damn more fun though.
Working purely off a ISK payout is going to be difficult (apart from the massive imbalances between DUST/EVE equipment costs). In EVE a decent mission runner can earn a couple of hundred thousand per kill on NPC's in a LVL 4 mission (easy one).
There has to be more i.e. the Kill Mail idea was good. |
Aleksander Black
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 01:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Payout would come from one of the NPC corporations involved in the ground combat, wouldn't mix DUST isk with EVE isk at all. Though missioning in high sec indeed can yield tons of money per hour you do need to have a nice set of skills and a big ship to run them. Plus the high standing to accept them. All in, it's a job that require at least a few months of dedication to perform. I'm sure most missioners won't stop missioning just to bombard some mercs, only out for fun, I guess, but it would be a viable income source for newer, untrained characters and miners or other people looking for some diversity without too many requirements. You only need a cheap destroyer to do OB in high sec anyway, even a few days old toon can afford that. |
Aleksander Black
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 01:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
But of course, other incentives would work better with other types of capsuleers. A boost to standings could go a long way, grinding standing is pretty awful. Maybe loyalty points. These kind of rewards would make some of them look only for combats involving specific NPC corps, which already occur around the same area anyway, but that isn't a bad thing in itself either. Its more people bombing which otherwise would not. |
Hellkeizer
The Avutora Complex
14
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 01:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Huh I thought this whole time that EVE players delivered OBs in pubs, that would explain why that one EVE player I made mad didn't say anything yet. The more you know |
Aleksander Black
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 01:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hellkeizer wrote:Huh I thought this whole time that EVE players delivered OBs in pubs, that would explain why that one EVE player I made mad didn't say anything yet. The more you know
I thought so too until not much time ago. |
Killar-12
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
391
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 01:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aleksander Black wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Give the capsuleer 1 million ISK per kill. 1 million definitely sounds too much. Some balance would have to be made, but assuming you can bombard nonstop just warping around in the same system it would have to be way less to be in line with, say, mining isk/hour. It would be damn more fun though. okay how much then? |
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Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
431
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 01:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
200k ISK reward for an EVE player is too low I'm afraid. Like an above poster mentioned, one would be much better off running missions and killing NPCs worth over one million each.
And once we start fighting on districts in null sec, then 200k is worthless and the only reason OBs will be provided will be because of politics. If one is interested in ISK, they'd be better off doing a ten second system scan and warp to a cosmic signature and start killing NPCs with values equal to high end missions.
I think providing orbitals should grant a little bit more ISK/hour than mining. Why? You can AFK mine while you can't AFK bombard. It's a simple rule of thumb: the more user input is required, the more ISK should be made. |
Killar-12
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
391
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 01:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:200k ISK reward for an EVE player is too low I'm afraid. Like an above poster mentioned, one would be much better off running missions and killing NPCs worth over one million each.
And once we start fighting on districts in null sec, then 200k is worthless and the only reason OBs will be provided will be because of politics. If one is interested in ISK, they'd be better off doing a ten second system scan and warp to a cosmic signature and start killing NPCs with values equal to high end missions.
I think providing orbitals should grant a little bit more ISK/hour than mining. Why? You can AFK mine while you can't AFK bombard. It's a simple rule of thumb: the more user input is required, the more ISK should be made. 1 mil per kill? |
Aleksander Black
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 01:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Aleksander Black wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Give the capsuleer 1 million ISK per kill. 1 million definitely sounds too much. Some balance would have to be made, but assuming you can bombard nonstop just warping around in the same system it would have to be way less to be in line with, say, mining isk/hour. It would be damn more fun though. okay how much then?
I'd rather let CCP do the math if they decide to go down this road, but to try answer you question and make a rough guess... Barely enough for it to be worth it. It's a low entry requirement job, with low risk. It shouldn't pay much. Maybe in low sec it could have a higher reward, and I think there are some pub matches in low sec. However, it would have to be enough to be worth the trouble. Depends on how much time it takes between one bombardment and the other, which depends on if you have to travel or can just sit your ship over a district and bombard all day.
How much isk/hour would this be in EVE? Let's say about 10mil/hour, but if you think a different value would do better just use it in the examples below and you have your answer.
If you do have to travel and take, let's say, about 3 minutes between one bombardment and the other, it could pay up to 500k per bombardment totaling 10mil/hour.
If you could sit over the same district and bombar all day without moving, only competing with other capsuleers over the same district, totaling 30 seconds between each bombardment, you would have a 83k payout totaling the same value.
Hell, you could make an algorithm to calculate by itself the payout value based on search and demand at any given time and it wouldn't be too hard to make it. That and the other possible awards, it is doable to have some capsuleers help us out. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
432
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 01:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
I have no opinion on how much capsuleers should be paid per orbital bombardment.
But with the tiny Dust playerbase, I'd imagine that there would be one public match for every few high sec systems in EVE. Now, I as a capsuleer have better things to do than travel around space searching for public matches so that I could possibly provide an orbital. The reward should be worth the exploration.
However, make the reward too high and everyone would flock to a public match in hopes of being the one to call down an orbital. Except they won't be able to fight each other for it because it's high sec. And it's bad design to have players crowding an area but only one person can claim the reward without fighting for anything. |
Aleksander Black
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 01:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:200k ISK reward for an EVE player is too low I'm afraid. Like an above poster mentioned, one would be much better off running missions and killing NPCs worth over one million each.
And once we start fighting on districts in null sec, then 200k is worthless and the only reason OBs will be provided will be because of politics. If one is interested in ISK, they'd be better off doing a ten second system scan and warp to a cosmic signature and start killing NPCs with values equal to high end missions.
I think providing orbitals should grant a little bit more ISK/hour than mining. Why? You can AFK mine while you can't AFK bombard. It's a simple rule of thumb: the more user input is required, the more ISK should be made.
Good point. Maybe more than I suggested, it would depend on how available the bombings would be, but should definitely give more isk/hour than mining in the end. |
Aleksander Black
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.03 01:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:I have no opinion on how much capsuleers should be paid per orbital bombardment.
But with the tiny Dust playerbase, I'd imagine that there would be one public match for every few high sec systems in EVE. Now, I as a capsuleer have better things to do than travel around space searching for public matches so that I could possibly provide an orbital. The reward should be worth the exploration.
However, make the reward too high and everyone would flock to a public match in hopes of being the one to call down an orbital. Except they won't be able to fight each other for it because it's high sec. And it's bad design to have players crowding an area but only one person can claim the reward without fighting for anything.
I was also worried about how they would claim the OB if there were more than 1 capsuleer over the same district. Sure, if there are more requests than bombers that wouldn't be a problem, but there should be some sort of system in play to let them resolve this.
Hm... just had this idea now: make it just like the FW complexes: split the reward to all capsuleers floating around 10km over the districts anchor in space. This would sort it out in a simple fashion. |
Gringo Nos
The Vanguardians
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 09:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:200k ISK reward for an EVE player is too low I'm afraid. Like an above poster mentioned, one would be much better off running missions and killing NPCs worth over one million each.
And once we start fighting on districts in null sec, then 200k is worthless and the only reason OBs will be provided will be because of politics. If one is interested in ISK, they'd be better off doing a ten second system scan and warp to a cosmic signature and start killing NPCs with values equal to high end missions.
I think providing orbitals should grant a little bit more ISK/hour than mining. Why? You can AFK mine while you can't AFK bombard. It's a simple rule of thumb: the more user input is required, the more ISK should be made.
200k isk is about average for one match in Dust. There is no balance between the markets at the moment and no where near enough isk in Dust for us to pay you space monkeys anything worth your while. I considered myself rich when I had 100mil, now I've got 10mil I'm too poor to call in my tanks let alone start paying for bombardments. Having isk rewards to you from npcs does nothing to strengthen the link between Dust and Eve either. We need to wait for ccp to decide what they're doing with the two separate economies before any real discussion on space monkeys hiring mercs, and vice versa, can take place. |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 18:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
And what about the massive ground cannons that shoot UP? They're supposedly far stronger than the Dreadnaught class Doomsday weapons. If you we we unable to approach a particular planet to mine it unless a favorable team won, I'd say that would be incentive enough. |
Aleksander Black
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 19:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:And what about the massive ground cannons that shoot UP? They're supposedly far stronger than the Dreadnaught class Doomsday weapons. If you we we unable to approach a particular planet to mine it unless a favorable team won, I'd say that would be incentive enough.
Yeah it would be, but I'm betting CCP already has extensive plans for changing planetary interaction and the place DUST will or may have on it. Just look at how they are trying to mobilize a mobile phone app department to relate to EVE. Also, shooting UP may involve way more coding and developing in general than the changes proposed, which were made to be as close to existing assets as posible in order for it to be viable.
On a sidenote, only Titans can use Doomsday weapons. |
DJINN Jecture
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
48
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 20:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
I agree the contracting corp for the battle should be paying eve players to place OBs, this would introduce some die hard computer users to pew pew their PS3 counterparts. Removing the fake MCC OBs has been suggested before but this sounds like a real solution. |
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1620
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 20:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aleksander Black wrote:As we are right now the Orbital Strikes requested in public matches are not delivered by EVE players. Only orbital strikes in PC and FW are delivered by EVE players, which results in only a minor part of EVE players interacting with DUST players and only a minor part of DUST players interacting with EVE players. Now, since public matches do take place in temperate planets scattered across new eden's high sec anyway, why not create districs for them and let players in high sec do the bombardment? I realize that the number of districs could act as a limiting factor for the maximum number of simultaneous public matches happening if you did this, however... If you use the high sec districs only as "adresses" where more than a single battle could take a place at the same time (effectively different matches at the same district) you would solve that problem and increase the number of orbital bombardment requests per districs (supposing you do have enough battles to fill them all). Only thing you would need in the EVE side is a little reward for the capsuleer that goes through the trouble of helping the mercs. Maybe the NPC Corporation that contracted the Mercs calling for the OB could pay... 200k? modified by standings, or even a little bit of standing boost. I can say that EVE players will be more than happy to blow us up if they can make some isk in the safety of high sec out of it. Hell, they spend hours mining, running from planet to planet looking for mercs to kill can't be more boring than that. Specially if they get killmails... EVE players love killmails. What would we achieve with this? Making the EVE - DUST connection more solid. Maybe mercs could start to spam local while in Barge requesting assistence from players in the system (supposing you actually change your local channel while deployed, which I'm unsure of). EVE players would actually get more content and another way to make a living (the isk reward may easily be adjusted to not be too much nor too little. And I'm supposing it wouldn't be so hard to implement it since almost all of the aspects involved already exist. Would require some cooperation from EVE Developers, but doesn't sound like a completely insane idea from a developing point of view - no art assets, only some adjustments to the districs functionality... At least for me, I may be wrong and if so I'm sorry. Only downside would be that you are not 100% guaranteed to have your OBs delivered. This isn't necessarilly a downside, though. I particulary think it's a good idea to promote relations between Mercs and Capsuleers, even in high sec, and let the Mercenaries with the best connections enjoy some advantage. If this is really an issue you could always make an NPC do the bombardment if an capsuleer doesn't respond in, say 30 seconds or 1 minute. That's it. What do you think?
+1 with one alteration, do them as they are done in PC and FW now so you can still call the PS from the MCC but use your suggestion to option up the new option of using the more powerful and diverse EVE delivered OBs as well. The added benefit of making OBs a new option on top of the current PS is that Dust players who are getting into FW/PC matches will already have learned the value of a fleet presence and will go to greater lengths to make sure they secure such a connection, which also increases interaction.
Good thoughts OP,
Cheers, Cross
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IceShifter Childhaspawn
DUST University Ivy League
204
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 16:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
As they stand currently, the OB was the power to turn a match. As the system stand currently, all but the most attentive EvE players miss.
The problem is simply that they are not in the match and there is no incentive for them to have their fingers at the F-Key to fire. By the time the EvE player figures its okay to drop the hammer, the intended targets have moved.
Removing OB from Pub matches would remove the ability of low SP Mercs to turn the tide on a Proto stomp with a well placed strike. Making the OB EvE based would remove the ability to use the OB as an instantaneous and precise strike tool, and would turn it into a method of removing dug in enemies, of which I can think of only three that exist
- That one guy who figured out that the redline Rail turret can own a battlefield.
- That one guy with the Thales using the map glitch
- Pesky rail tanks
A mechanic allowing a squad to dig in, removing their ability to maneuver, while buffing their defenses -would be needed to make EvE based OBs usefull. There is no need for what amounts to a permanent -fire for effect- strike. |
Aleksander Black
Immortal Retribution
30
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 17:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
As already suggested, you could just give both options to the players and let them decide if they want the current option or they'd be better off requiring assistance from a capsuleer. Given that a EVE player based OB could be better or more suited than a generic war barge strike, this could pose a reasonable advantage for the mercenaries that go through the trouble to interact with EVE players and make sure that they will get the support they want. Sure, this is prone to all flaws inherent to human interaction, but ins't just this that makes EVE great? Sometimes that Titan pilot is afk when he shouldn't and a whole fleet of hundreds of pilots have to wait he get back from dinner to be able to be bridged into the fight and help their allies being slaughtered in some corner of the universe. Likewise, maybe our pilot is paying attention to the district, maybe he is not. Thing is, if he is, and if everyone manage to coordenate efforts across diferent games to get an edge, they deserve this edge. And its this possibility, the possibility of interaction, of cooperation and even of human failure that I am advocating for the public matches. As mentioned, you shouldn't be forced into it, but it should be an available option that gives an edge to the players that go through the trouble of making it happen. Interaction. Connection across different games. To me that will beat an NPC OB any time of the day, even if we lose because our pilot is taking a nap or looking too much to the stars. It's an story with humans, not a dull and plain mechanic. |
Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
276
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 18:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
It was already confirmed that we will get a FW update in Winter or Spring. This update includes: NPC Orbitals will be removed from FW. Eve Players will get loyalty points for dropping orbitals. |
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