DUST Search - [feedback] Scrambler pisotol

Django Quik wrote:

XxGhazbaranxX wrote:

Django Quik wrote:

I'll just address your first point for now - the SMG and AR both have spread/dispersion; the scrambler pistol does not. In fact, I have no idea what that accuracy number means but it definitely does not mean 50% of your shots will not go exactly where you point. I have used the scrambler pistol and SMG exclusively for at least the last 6 months and can unequivocally state that pistol shots go exactly where you aim 100% of the time. The problem you are most likely experiencing is that hit detection is still bad and hit boxes lag behind moving players.

shoot at a wall and you will see the dispersion. The breach variant has 10 points above the regular one. 53 regular, 63 breack. Shots with the breach are more spot on even when pacing myself with the normal one. There is spread on them. I use it as a main and am seeing the spread every day I use it. Use it for 10 matches in a row and it will enfuriate you when you know it was spot on but you see it miss.... Also if you are using SMG and scram pistol exclusively then that mean you are actually using SMG as main and finishing of with scram pistol; making you not notice what the weapon is lacking.

Test it out. Take and AR and shoot at a wall

Then empty a scrambler pistol clip at the wall; you will see the spread

Lol, you are so wrong - I use the pistol as my main and SMG as finisher/back up.

There is no spread. Trust me. Until a few weeks ago I used only the assault variants, with much faster ROF and it always shoots exactly where I aim, even when firing 12 shots in a row. Even using the militia variant. I've used these bad boys as my main for over 6 months, so don't tell me I need to test them out; I have done so for a long time.

Plus, shooting at a wall is not a good measure of how accurate the weapon is - try headshotting an unsuspecting sniper from behind at 20m. If you get that reticule right on the head, you will hit the head 100% of the time.


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XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 221	Posted - 2013.08.02 08:35:00 - [1] - Quote INTRODUCTION As A logi I found I had to get my hand on all the cpu/pwrgrd I can get. So I tried using strd weapons but still feel that I'm lacking in the fittings department. I have taken upon myself to train into scrambler pistols. Boy what a challenge that has been. At first I thought it was me; of course I do not rate myself very highly on the aiming scale but then I noticed something very peculiar. In the following short paragraphs I will try to elaborated as best as I can about the scrambler pistols little problem. NOTE: I apologize in advance if in any part of the post I refer to the scrambler pistol as a scrambler rifle. I am very tired. Henceforth, if at any point you see scrambler RIFLE be assured that I am not, in fact, talking about IT, but am talking about the scrambler pistol DESCRIPTION: First off I want to start with the description of the weapon. Something a lot of us read before deciding if a weapon will be interesting to use or not. Quote: The scramber pistol is a semi-automatic pistol originally designed and manufactured by Carthum conglomerate. A small scale directed energy weapon. It produces a laser induce plasma channel capable of dealing short-range pin-point damage to a target. Power consumption is excessive, but is addressed via rear-loaded fuel cell. Allowing cells to be exchanged quickly and easily once exhausted. Moreover, advances in polymers used in the weapons construction have greatly reduced heat build-up and improved head dissipation, resulting in improved reliability over earlier modules. THE PROBLEM There is not just one problem with the scramble pistol. I've used the scrambler pistol almost exclusively this last week and haven't used my main weapon unless I am called upon to be on my very best game and in my experience with the weapon there are three major problems. these problems are listed as follows: Accuracy: By simple definition is what percentage of the time will the weapon hit a designated target within a pre-set area. A weapon with 50 accuracy (In dust I think It must be percentage) will hit a designated area only 50% of the time. The accuracy of the weapon is at the heart of the problem. It is this value which decides how the bullets will spread and therefore how likely you are to hit the target. There is only one problem. This weapon boasts no higher accuracy than the SMG. The stats are as follows: SMG = 51 rating / scrambler pistol = 54. To make matter worse, the assault rifles carry the same accuracy, even more in the case of the gek, and still have a significantly higher rate of fire and a significantly higher kill distance. Now, the devil is in the details here. why does a 1 point in accuracy difference matter so much? Well It's all about the description of the weapon and the pure numbers. An assault rifle or and SMG spitting bullets at 750 (AR) to 1000 (SMG) does not suffer from having this rating. If an assault rifle fires 100 shots it will hit around 50% of the time on a pre determined area. It's clip is 60 therefore the least a person can expect to hit 30 bullets if they are spot on. But the scrambler pistol only has 6 bullets for a total of 11 if you have it alt level 5. What does this equate to? Missing crucial shots even when you are spot on. For a weapon that boasts the description of pin-point accuracy the scramble pistol leaves us with much to be desired. SUMMARY Scrambler pistols have the same spread as AR and SMG's but are weighed down by half the distance, less than 1 third the ammount of shots beore reload and well below the RPM of these well defined weapons. Bears a descriptor of pin-point accuracy while having much much less. Distance: This weapon has no problems with distance but there is a bit of something I want to share because it is one of the things that mostly breaks the scrambler pistol. By having such a low rating as discussed in the first problem we get an issue which should not exist. Accuracy at a distance. This weapon should be as accurate from close up as it is to it's maximum distance; which if you have used the scrambler pistol as a main weapon; you will know is not very far. By my estimates it is half than that of the AR, even less. Having it be out performed in accuracy at a distance by a sub machine gun (due to it's rating at such a high DPS) is just an utter insult for the weapon and it's user in combat. ( I don't mean CCP is insulting the USE I mean one feels as if you where insulted by the other player since your skill was countered by a spray of bullets) SUMMARY Accuracy, or it's lack there of, is compounded at a distance; albeit a short one. This makes the gun feel unreliable and, what would be a well aimed kill shot, miss. Kick: The kick for a weapon this weapon far out kicks the kick of any other weapon that is spitting bullets. This kick makes the weapon feel like you are shooting a sniper ehich BTW has less recoil than this bad boy. Now to be honest no other weapon in the game has this much kick; at least none that shoots projectiles or pseudo projectiles. The kick makes the accuracy even lower than it should be. Assault rifles do not suffer from such kick; and I;ve used them and have no skills into them, so my kick is not reduced by skills. SUMMARY Higher kick than AR, SMG and Sniper rifles combined compound onto the accuracy problem. The scrambler pistol is a weapon that should give a High risk High reward type of gameplay. High risk because of it's short range and high reward because of the skill needed to use. Due to it's short range, small clip and most of all it's description, the accuracy should be least in the 70's high 80's. To fix this weapon is simple. CCP must, beyond a doubt, tone down the kick of the weapon while giving it a much higher accuracy rating.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 221	Posted - 2013.08.02 08:43:00 - [2] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Or you know, use your ******* sights Every gun is spot on when using sights. I've used SMG, AR, SCRAM PISTOl, Scrambler rifle, so on and so forth for at least a week each; regularly. They all have the same effect, Aim down sights Is 90% plus shots hit if you are actually aiming right. This post was most unhelpful and your use of language idiotic.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 221	Posted - 2013.08.02 08:49:00 - [3] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Solution: aim down sight. There is no recoil when ADS Yes aim down sites would be a solution; if only the other weapons did not kill you at such a fast pace. Being able to aim down sight with this weapon means you actually have time to react, which in it's range is very unlikely. For it's range; it's ammo amount and it's kick the weapon is unbalanced in it's current form. I see more people using the laser rifle and have never actually seen a kill by it that wasn't the few of mine.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 221	Posted - 2013.08.02 08:50:00 - [4] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: Why is this in General Discussions? You even put [feedback] so you know where this topic goes. Do you like poptarts? I kinda do, I like the strawberry ones. LOL; This is actually a mistake. I open various tabs when I go into the forums and must have clicked the wrong one. Thanks for the heads up. I will try and get it moved.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 221	Posted - 2013.08.02 09:00:00 - [5] - Quote Django Quik wrote: I'll just address your first point for now - the SMG and AR both have spread/dispersion; the scrambler pistol does not. In fact, I have no idea what that accuracy number means but it definitely does not mean 50% of your shots will not go exactly where you point. I have used the scrambler pistol and SMG exclusively for at least the last 6 months and can unequivocally state that pistol shots go exactly where you aim 100% of the time. The problem you are most likely experiencing is that hit detection is still bad and hit boxes lag behind moving players. shoot at a wall and you will see the dispersion. The breach variant has 10 points above the regular one. 53 regular, 63 breack. Shots with the breach are more spot on even when pacing myself with the normal one. There is spread on them. I use it as a main and am seeing the spread every day I use it. Use it for 10 matches in a row and it will enfuriate you when you know it was spot on but you see it miss.... Also if you are using SMG and scram pistol exclusively then that mean you are actually using SMG as main and finishing of with scram pistol; making you not notice what the weapon is lacking. Test it out. Take and AR and shoot at a wall Then empty a scrambler pistol clip at the wall; you will see the spread
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 221	Posted - 2013.08.02 09:03:00 - [6] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Solution: aim down sight. There is no recoil when ADS Yes aim down sites would be a solution; if only the other weapons did not kill you at such a fast pace. Being able to aim down sight with this weapon means you actually have time to react, which in it's range is very unlikely. For it's range; it's ammo amount and it's kick the weapon is unbalanced in it's current form. I see more people using the laser rifle and have never actually seen a kill by it that wasn't the few of mine. What kick? Also ads is pretty much instant so i can ads as soon as i see someone, which you should be doing since the pistol is all about headshots No kick IN ADS; I am talking about kick in hipfire
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 222	Posted - 2013.08.02 09:08:00 - [7] - Quote I get the feeling most of the people posting aren't using this weapon as their main. More than That I have a feeling that it's only been used less than one a rare moments. The ADS headshot comment shows no actual experience in doing this as at close range there is no time to ADS. AT the ranges where ADS is possible; even a 400% shot would only be 320 damage at optimal; in which distance you are most likely face to face.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 222	Posted - 2013.08.02 09:16:00 - [8] - Quote Django Quik wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Django Quik wrote: I'll just address your first point for now - the SMG and AR both have spread/dispersion; the scrambler pistol does not. In fact, I have no idea what that accuracy number means but it definitely does not mean 50% of your shots will not go exactly where you point. I have used the scrambler pistol and SMG exclusively for at least the last 6 months and can unequivocally state that pistol shots go exactly where you aim 100% of the time. The problem you are most likely experiencing is that hit detection is still bad and hit boxes lag behind moving players. shoot at a wall and you will see the dispersion. The breach variant has 10 points above the regular one. 53 regular, 63 breack. Shots with the breach are more spot on even when pacing myself with the normal one. There is spread on them. I use it as a main and am seeing the spread every day I use it. Use it for 10 matches in a row and it will enfuriate you when you know it was spot on but you see it miss.... Also if you are using SMG and scram pistol exclusively then that mean you are actually using SMG as main and finishing of with scram pistol; making you not notice what the weapon is lacking. Test it out. Take and AR and shoot at a wall Then empty a scrambler pistol clip at the wall; you will see the spread Lol, you are so wrong - I use the pistol as my main and SMG as finisher/back up. There is no spread. Trust me. Until a few weeks ago I used only the assault variants, with much faster ROF and it always shoots exactly where I aim, even when firing 12 shots in a row. Even using the militia variant. I've used these bad boys as my main for over 6 months, so don't tell me I need to test them out; I have done so for a long time. Plus, shooting at a wall is not a good measure of how accurate the weapon is - try headshotting an unsuspecting sniper from behind at 20m. If you get that reticule right on the head, you will hit the head 100% of the time. spread does nt acount for the first shot. also spread on the assaullt is much more notriceable. as for scrambler pistol as main with an smg backup tells me you find yourself using that smg more times than not.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 223	Posted - 2013.08.02 17:22:00 - [9] - Quote Yes I am aware of the headshot damage. But As I am logi and only use one weapon. The scram pistol does not apply the damage everyone is saying. This I expect Is because they use two weapons so if one falls short they don't notice. Most people have posted about headshots but TBH the falloff of the weapon starts so early that even with a headshot at 30m the damage is already low enough to only do regular damage. As for people saying it only akes 2 or three shots; it might be possible with the breach variant but the RPM is so low and the aiming so inconsistent that it outright falls short of it's description. In this post I haven't said to change anything on the weapon except the accuracy rating; which for a weapon of this type should be higher than an SMG or an AR. Some have said this is wanting a crutch but; how is it a crutch to actually want the weapon to shoot where I aim it. There is no crutch possible with the scrambler pistol. I'm not asking for auto aim, I'm asking for the devs to make the gun "Pin-Point" and not have the rating of an SMG. If the commentors have really used this weapon as they all say they do; and all talk as if they where experts with the weapon, then they should have noticed something peculiar. The breach is a lot more accurate than the regular or the assault variiants. Even when counting 1 Mississippi in between shots for the regular one. This is because of the rating. The normal scrambler pistos has a rating of 54 and the breach a rating of 63.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 223	Posted - 2013.08.02 17:58:00 - [10] - Quote Django Quik wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Yes I am aware of the headshot damage. But As I am logi and only use one weapon. The scram pistol does not apply the damage everyone is saying. This I expect Is because they use two weapons so if one falls short they don't notice. Most people have posted about headshots but TBH the falloff of the weapon starts so early that even with a headshot at 30m the damage is already low enough to only do regular damage. As for people saying it only akes 2 or three shots; it might be possible with the breach variant but the RPM is so low and the aiming so inconsistent that it outright falls short of it's description. In this post I haven't said to change anything on the weapon except the accuracy rating; which for a weapon of this type should be higher than an SMG or an AR. Some have said this is wanting a crutch but; how is it a crutch to actually want the weapon to shoot where I aim it. There is no crutch possible with the scrambler pistol. I'm not asking for auto aim, I'm asking for the devs to make the gun "Pin-Point" and not have the rating of an SMG. If the commentors have really used this weapon as they all say they do; and all talk as if they where experts with the weapon, then they should have noticed something peculiar. The breach is a lot more accurate than the regular or the assault variiants. Even when counting 1 Mississippi in between shots for the regular one. This is because of the rating. The normal scrambler pistos has a rating of 54 and the breach a rating of 63. I like how you've completely ignored my point that the accuracy rating is irrelevant because the scrambler rifle and laser both have perfect accuracy but similarly ~50 accuracy stats. actually that's not true for the scrambler rifle. I put some points into this and initial test show that it has spread.

XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 223	Posted - 2013.08.02 18:11:00 - [11] - Quote There is a big misconception about what spread and accuracy rating is; I will give a brief explenation. Spread is what happpens when you shoot your weapon. This is was causes the crosshairs to get larger and larger; accuracy rating is how probable the weapon is going to hit the center of that spread. I'll give an example: When one shoots a scrambler pistol the cross hairs get extra large (larger than most weapons) making the 50% accuracy shoot anywhere in between that extra large cross in the next shot. The scrambler rifle barely gets any spread when fires; only minimal, meaning that the crosshairs don't get that much farther apart making it's accuracy rating not matter. The laser rifle has no spread whatsoever. This means it's crosshairs NEVER get larger. This means the weapon could have a an accuracy rating of 1 and still hit it's mark
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 223	Posted - 2013.08.02 18:15:00 - [12] - Quote What spread/accuracy rating does in the scrambler pistol is that it creates an unreliable shot; no matter how good you think you are; when the crosshairs get spread out, even if the target is in between them you will only hit center 50% of the time
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 223	Posted - 2013.08.02 21:19:00 - [13] - Quote Django Quik wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: There is a big misconception about what spread and accuracy rating is; I will give a brief explenation. Spread is what happpens when you shoot your weapon. This is was causes the crosshairs to get larger and larger; accuracy rating is how probable the weapon is going to hit the center of that spread. I'll give an example: When one shoots a scrambler pistol the cross hairs get extra large (larger than most weapons) making the 50% accuracy shoot anywhere in between that extra large cross in the next shot. The scrambler rifle barely gets any spread when fires; only minimal, meaning that the crosshairs don't get that much farther apart making it's accuracy rating not matter. The laser rifle has no spread whatsoever. This means it's crosshairs NEVER get larger. This means the weapon could have a an accuracy rating of 1 and still hit it's mark Ok I get what you're actually experiencing now - when you fire a scrambler pistol and the reticule widens, it makes it harder to aim. However if you still manage to get the center of the reticule where you want to fire, you will hit that spot. As for your explanation of the accuracy rating, I'd like to know your source because it sounds like a bunch of conjecture. correction; the rating makes it so only you hit dead center 50% of the time. The spread makes it so that the hit area is smaller or larger.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 223	Posted - 2013.08.02 21:31:00 - [14] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Django Quik wrote: Ok I get what you're actually experiencing now - when you fire a scrambler pistol and the reticule widens, it makes it harder to aim. However if you still manage to get the center of the reticule where you want to fire, you will hit that spot. As for your explanation of the accuracy rating, I'd like to know your source because it sounds like a bunch of conjecture. Accuracy rating only pertains to hip firing and the amount of spread you get (crosshairs widening) after repeated firing. When you ADS, you have 100% accuracy but kick-dispersion on weapons will throw that off. I actually have to disagree with you cosgar. I have been testing these two mechanics for the last week. Spread and accuracy rating are two different things. Like I explained a bit earlier; spread is when the crosshairs widen; accuracy is what percentage you have of hitting your mark dead on. So for example if you shoot a gun and the crosshairs are huge there is only 50% chance you will hit dead center the other 50% they will hit anywhere in that said spread. That's why Assault rifles feel so deadly. They have a skill to lessen spread or in other words they have a skill to lessen the amount the crosshairs separate therefore making a 50% accuracy rating fall through less spread. Spread means how far the bullets can deviate from the center. Accuracy mean how often they will deviate. Example: Take a scramble rifle and fire 3 or 4 shots. you will see that the crosshairs enlarge minimally and that the projectiles will hit anywhere inside those crosshairs, not dead center. The spread is so minimall that a rating of 50 does not affect the weapon. Take a scrambler pistol (assault for a better example) fire 3 or 4 consecutive shots. You will notice the crosshairs enlarge quite a bit making the possible deviation much much larger. Since the rating is 53 it will hit dead center 53 percent of the time and the other 47% of the time it will deviate anywhere in that spread.