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Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 132	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:28:00 - [1] - Quote GTA V FTW wrote: So if Logis got nerfed in order to help push them into their intended roll of support class why can scouts carry weapons like Shottys and AR's ? Shouldn't the Scouts now get nerfed to only be able to carry a Sniper Rifle in order to push them into their intended roll? BTW I did not spec into the FOTM Logi Assault suit so no I am not crying. I am just questioning CCP's logic. You should consider the discrepancy in your logic. The nerf had nothing to do with weapons in the first place.
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 132	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:31:00 - [2] - Quote Weapon does not define role. Play style defines the role. The dropsuit is only a guideline for an idea of the role, it does not mean you have to play as that role entirely. The nerf had everything to do with the lack of balance for the Caldari Logi with the number of slots available to it in context of the CPU/PG it had. The Amarr Logi got a nice buff and is more 'offensive' thanks to the two weapon combinations. Your logic would mean that Logi's should not be using weapons at all.
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 132	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:36:00 - [3] - Quote GTA V FTW wrote: Zero Notion wrote: GTA V FTW wrote: So if Logis got nerfed in order to help push them into their intended roll of support class why can scouts carry weapons like Shottys and AR's ? Shouldn't the Scouts now get nerfed to only be able to carry a Sniper Rifle in order to push them into their intended roll? BTW I did not spec into the FOTM Logi Assault suit so no I am not crying. I am just questioning CCP's logic. You should consider the discrepancy in your logic. The nerf had nothing to do with weapons in the first place. It was nerfed because it was being used as a Assault class. Quote: As mentioned above, these skill changes are largely to discourage assault-focused players from using the Logistics suit as their frontline choice. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/logistics-dropsuit-changes-in-uprising-1.3/ Read between the lines. They were able to stack multiple shields and armor modules without hindering CPU/PG. They were being used offensively in a way that was unbalanced. It says nothing at all about weapons defining class, either. Are you just trolling or stubborn? Just like on my Amarr Logi - if I want to rock proto weapons, sidearm and light, I have to sacrifice an armor module for CPU module. Caldari had no trouble carrying equipment and modules in a way that was not intended in the design, i.e; the suit is designed to be a logistics suit, it does not mean you have to be a logistic but the suits designed was better for assault variants. I.e; unbalanced.
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 133	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:44:00 - [4] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: Kinky Burrito wrote: GTA V FTW wrote: So if Logis got nerfed in order to help push them into their intended roll of support class why can scouts carry weapons like Shottys and AR's ? Shouldn't the Scouts now get nerfed to only be able to carry a Sniper Rifle in order to push them into their intended roll? BTW I did not spec into the FOTM Logi Assault suit so no I am not crying. I am just questioning CCP's logic. They didnt get nerfed to "push" them into anything. They got nerfed because the suit was plainly overpowered. If anything, it pushed many of them further from the logi role because now they just don't run equipment to fit their damage mods. Not me. I had a triage rep tool. Now I can't use it on all my fits. Had to remove it. Sounds like your fit is in question. Drop armor or shield, replace with something else. Use advanced instead of proto. Use basic instead of advanced (any modules.) I run an amarr Logi, adv suit. Right now, to use my adv droplinks, I had to drop the K2 Nano for a compact nano, drop an enhanced armor and shield module for basics while replacing my nanite with my uplink and use advanced shotgun and breach smg. It's all about fine tuning. I do fine in battles; I can push offensively and fall back as triage. I can place uplinks tactically. I have multiple suits that fit multiple roles for varying situations.
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 133	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:44:00 - [5] - Quote GTA V FTW wrote: calisk galern wrote: scouts are an assassination class, sniper rifles aren't the only way to do that, shotguns used to be one of the best ways to accomplish that in fact. Yeah but using CCP's Logic they were not designed to be frontline Assault yet that is what they are being used for just like the FOTM Logi suit was but then CCP nerfed the Logi Suit because it was being used as frontline assault. Obvious troll is obvious.
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 135	Posted - 2013.08.01 19:54:00 - [6] - Quote Call me anything you would like but CCP's word are clear as day. Quote: As mentioned above, these skill changes are largely to discourage assault-focused players from using the Logistics suit as their frontline choice. Let's break down what that quote means since you're obviously too stubborn to understand what it means. Quote: discourage assault-focused players from using the Logistics suit as their frontline choice Now, read this part part carefully. Quote: assault-focused What do you think this means? It means they are players who are offensively focused. What's the 'point' of dropsuits? Guidelines for a role. I.e; the suit is 'designed' to fit that 'role' in such a way that it has inherent restrictions (modules, cpu/pg, weapon capacity) to help give definition to the 'role' with degree of flexibility. Now, let's break this part down. Quote: using the Logistics suit A logistics suit, in design, is not meant to perform primarily as an assault. Can it? Yes, with sacrifice - i.e; not running equipmen to free up PG/CPU. You have to choose one or the other. Caldari Logis had a PG/CPU capacity that didn't limit them in regards to the other Logistics suits. Quote: t as their frontline choice What do you think this part means? It means they had module capacity that allowed them to be tanks to a degree that was, I think we can all agree, ridiculous, when coupled with their ability to rock weapons+equipment+modules. This was also in thanks to their racial suit buffs. I hope this helps clarify their logic while offering insights into analytic and critical thinking of the English language.
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 135	Posted - 2013.08.01 20:03:00 - [7] - Quote GTA V FTW wrote: Zero Notion wrote: I hope this helps clarify their logic while offering insights into analytic and critical thinking of the English language. Meh, this ^ is only your interpenetration of what you think you are reading. BTW you forgot to break down this part for me, "largely to discourage" Verb Cause (someone) to lose confidence or enthusiasm. Prevent or seek to prevent (something) by showing disapproval or creating difficulties. Right. Every suit has levels of 'discouragement' inherent in the design. If a scout wants more health, they have to buy into armor. This prevents speed on their part which is their bread and butter. They could use the Ferro plates but this is high PG/CPU. This would prevent them from using a shield mod, damage mod, etc as they normally would or force them to use basics. Maybe even force to consider what level of weapons they want to use. A heavy, for more speed, would have to give up armor plating, which is helpful for a heavy as they are not very fast even with kinetics. It's not to prevent you from playing into these roles. It's forcing you to think about how you want to play that role. Does any of this make sense to you yet?
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 137	Posted - 2013.08.01 20:09:00 - [8] - Quote A scouts role isn't 'front line' in the way you are thinking. Are they on the front? Yes, but they are using stealth and speed to avoid the main of the fighting and typically using assassination techniques to kill you. They are not tanking shots. They are avoiding shots. Good scouts are rarely seen and are using their speed to flank, avoid detection and so on to kill you or hack objections.
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 137	Posted - 2013.08.01 20:13:00 - [9] - Quote Quote: I don't give a hoot if the damn things got nerfed or not, its CCP's reason why they nerfed them that is bugging me becasue with that type of Logic who knows what they will nerf next and why. They got nerfed because they did not have to give up what other dropsuits have to give up to play a role that is 'outside' their 'intended' role. That's all. It's very simple. There was no sacrifice on the Caldari part, not like a scout has to make sacrifice for health or a heavy for speed. You're missing the whole point of the statement because you're not observing the larger picture in context to other suits.
Zero Notion Red Star Jr. EoN. 137	Posted - 2013.08.01 20:16:00 - [10] - Quote GTA V FTW wrote: Jaqen Morghalis wrote: 1. "Discourage" =/= "prevent" people can - and still do - use the Caldati logi as their fronline choice. That is because they do not have a choice to respec out of them, derp. It was incredibly, incredibly apparent that it was unbalanced. If they went into that suit expecting to be nothing but an assault class, why didn't they choose the assault or heavy suit? Herpaderpa.

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