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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
2304
   |
Posted - 2013.08.01 12:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is the second die-hard (props to Bruce Willis) post in which I'll be going over every detail that I possibly can to lay out the major issues with certain aspects of the game.
This particular bit of the series is concerning Equipment as a whole but mostly relating to their use in PC - also known as "spam the **** out of the drop uplinks and nanohives".
Nanohives
Considering their spammed use in PC there's obviously something going on here and it has nothing to do with the ammunition restoration that the Nanohives hallmark on. In fact, it's that used in tandem with Nanohives that repair players. Now, this isn't a big issue considering that - theoretically - a repair tool is much better but this is not the case. The reason for this is that Nanohives (particularly the Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohive) are just too damned effective at what they do.
I know this is sacrilegious, especially coming from someone who is a dedicated armor tanker, but it's the honest to god truth. In PC the general rule is that Repair Tools and Nanite Injectors are for all intents and purposes frowned upon because both of them have two things in common.
1.) They both put the user in danger, replacing their weapon.
2.) They're both less efficient than the nanohive itself.
Looking at it from a mathematical standpoint, two Triage Nanohives overlapped can repair 140 HP/s over a combined area of 121.64 meters for multiple players. The very best repair tool (Core Focused Repair Tool) can only provide 105 HP/s in repairs over a fixed range of 10.5 meters and can only repair a single person at a time. This just isn't feasible in the heat of combat and is the sole reason that Nanohives (R) are the predominant choice in PC battles.
The downside, of course, is that the nanohives have a limited amount of clusters. This isn't as large of an issue as it may seem however as they can be 'refreshed' upon the death of the person who deployed them or restocked at a Supply Depot. Despite this, many nanohives offer 'reserve' nanohives for when they do burn out.
While on the topic of nanohives burning out, there is a large issue in which nanohives will be deployed an burn out due to the game mechanics deciding that the placement was a failure. This has occurred a great deal of time in bumpy terrain but it does sometimes occur on flat terrain as well. They also have a remarkable tendency to slide around a lot - even when pointing directly at the ground for their placement they will slide 5+ meters (discovered this when doing hit box testing on Scouts, greatly interfering with our 'track').
Another interesting aspect is that Nanohives (R) give Triage points in tandem with Resupply points. This makes them incredibly effective at war point accumulation as a few players throwing grenades and taking a bit of damage will make short work of acquiring enough war points for rewarding an orbital to the squad.
I can find no legitimate reason that Nanohives should be better at repairing armor than the equipment that was designed, slated and even titled for that purpose. Is this to say that they should be nerfed? No, but it is to say that in order for Repair Tools to be effective, Nanohives first have to be checked and balanced. More on this later.
Drop Uplinks
The undisputedly most used equipment item in Planetary Conquest and for good reason. As stated above, it's more efficient just to die and respawn than to put another player on the line to bring you back, potentially losing two clones instead of the one as well as prevent that player from dishing damage out on the enemy. This is however the exact reason that it's spammed to hell and back.
This isn't to say that it's not a bad tactic or that it isn't useful but I am almost -positive- that the animation from the Drop Uplinks in tandem with Nanohives is a good reason for FPS drops in Planetary Conquest and that much is obvious from opening the map to spawn somewhere and seeing it drop. I assume that this is from the animation but this is a game mechanic issue, not a balance issue.
They are way too visible, however, being able to spot them from 25 meters away on the mini-map without actually physically seeing them in game. You can identify and locate them from behind walls and even entire structures. The worst part about this, however, is that they give away the position of the person who dropped them. There's been a few times in which I've actually spotted a team of enemies who were trying to flank only because they dropped an uplink - which came up on the minimap despite none of them appearing on it.
They're also remarkable for fast deployment, with the absolute best reducing spawn times to three seconds. Considering that they can be deployed en masse there's no reason to use objectives/CRUs as a spawn point unless there are no drop uplinks nearby.
Speaking with members of the CPM and bouncing ideas around there was talk considering a cap toward how many uplinks can be fielded for a team but I'm against this as I feel that while it will benefit organized teams it will hurt players in Pub Matches and Faction Warfare. There would be no greater frustration than not being able to field drop uplinks because Johnny Nobody put too many down in the Redline.
On the other hand, I do feel that equipment should be regulated by type. This was an idea mostly proposed by Kane Spero and I feel that it could work (within reason). If you're carrying drop-uplinks in all of your slots it's possible to field six at a time as there can be two active per type, rather than per equipment item. So imposing a limitation on all equipment would definitely reduce the spam and make for more thought behind the placement.
Continued on next post
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
2304
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 12:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
This can only happen, however, in the event that Drop Uplinks have their map visibility reduced as the only viable option for them is to be spammed to ensure that there is grounds for spawning as they're just too damned easy to find.
Repair Tools - A.K.A The Reason You Died
The concept is great but the implementation is a little weak with Nanohives usurping them as much as they do. Getting Triage and Guardian points is also a plus but inevitably there's far too much risk for too little reward as you're sacrificing your weapon in order to support your team.
Different variants perform different functions with one variant (the Axis) working better on vehicles. This is something I frown upon however as we no longer get Triage points for repairing vehicles because of one particular corporation (I won't name them) abused this function by doing it in the Redline and dropped orbitals without the risk of being killed. I feel that this was a hatchet fix for something that needed a scalpel. It's easy enough to impose a cap on how many triage points one can attain within a certain amount of time and they do this already with infantry repair - even then it'd be a much easier fix to prevent the accrual of triage points for this purpose inside the Redline.
Another issue with repairing vehicles besides not having any reward for doing so is that you can't repair enough damage to make up for the damage being put out by AV. The vehicle driver utilizing a Vehicle specific repair module/booster is a better option anyway as it was designed for the large amounts of damage needing to be recovered. There should be a rewarding sensation for helping vehicles this way and I feel it would a long way into balancing vehicles as a whole by implementing more team-work options.
Aside from vehicles they're not that great for infantry either. Some variants will extend the range quite a bit but the issue remains that the player using them is 9/10 a Logistics, which is very slow compared to other suits. You can't repair while sprinting so if the player runs out of range you're not benefiting them. Combine this with the fact that breaking line of sight will cancel the function and it's just not worth it when you have Repair hives that heal for more HP anyway.
While I know I'm going to crucified for outing the information - I also feel that you should not get Guardian points for repairing someone while they call in an orbital. Don't hurt me though 
Nanite Injectors
The (second) most underutilized but most respected piece of equipment in the game just happens to be the one that puts the user at the most risk. There are some players that like the adrenaline rush of running through gunfire to revive a friendly player but I don't think it's worth the risk involved. Much like the Repair Tool, the Nanite Injector forces the user to abandon his weapon but with the added expense of having to run out (more times than not) in the open to revive the person.
This presents a number of problems as they themselves could die or what is more likely to occur is that the person they are reviving dies again. They also have no option to opt out of the revive and there has been some isolated cases of the injector being used for boosting (won't name names!). Fact is, whether you like it or not you're going to be revived and you're potentially going to die again as you scramble for cover. The person who revived you is also going to be scrambling for cover but in the same instance they're trying to pull their repair tool to finish off what little bit of armor did not come back when they revived you.
Now, I'm not sure if this ever got fixed but I'm fairly certain it didn't, there's another issue imposed by their use. As you use better injectors they repair more armor on revival, which is good for the safety of the person being revived but you don't get more points for that. This means that it's better for the person doing the reviving to use the standard/militia injector and repair the rest of the armor damage to attain more points, which as you know goes toward the squad's next orbital.
One last thing I'd like to mention is that, as you will see in the provided spreadsheet, there is ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT to using the Prototype Aurum Injector over the Advanced Aurum Injector as they both repair the same amount of armor but the Prototype costs more CPU/PG and Aurum.
Active Scanners - Wait, we have Active Scanners?
These finicky little things are amazing at what they do but the lack of war points for them means that they're the most under utilized equipment item in the game. Hardly anyone uses them and if they do they're doing it solely for the sake of using it. With TacNet providing information on enemy locations that gets shared between players (this is being changed mind you) their use is somewhat lackluster.
The reason for this is that all you have to do to provide your team with the location of the enemy is to aim down the sight of your weapon at the target in question and their chevron (the red arrow above their player model) lights up and they appear on the map. As stated earlier, this is being changed but in the mean time it severely hampers the use of the Active Scanner as there is more valuable equipment to be used instead.
Some of the prototype ones are very useful though - even TOO useful in my opinion as I've outlined in another thread:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1127559#post1127559
Essentially, a Duvolle Focused Active Scanner will pick up -ANYTHING- in the game besides a Prototype Gallente Scout Gk.0 with all skills level 5, two Complex and one Basic Profile Dampener. This is just insane, especially given that it has a scan range of 100 meters at a 60 degree angle.
So let's do the math on this in our next post. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
2304
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 12:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Using the formula: area=1/2 a*b*sin(x) we can find that the area of this scan is 4,330 meters.
On a map that is 400*400 = 160,000 meters, this equates to 2.7% of the map being scanned at a time. This doesn't sound like much but when you consider the location of where objectives are in the map and the redline locations, it starts to dawn on you just how powerful this tool is. This is all under the assumption that we have no idea where the enemy is, which is not likely the case.
Again, this is the most powerful Active Scanner when used for defeating low profile signatures. The most powerful in terms of range is the CreoDron Flux Active Scanner which with 28 db scan precision can pick any Scout that does not have all skills at level five over an area of.......... Brace yourself.....
20,000 meters.
This may be a bit TOO powerful considering that you have to be running a Scout with all skills at level five to dip beneath it considering it's massive scan area. We won't really know until the TacNet changes have been implemented and more players start relying on - let alone specializing into - Active Scanners. For now we can only wait and see.
Remote/Proximity Explosives - The Step Child of Splash Damage
These are an oddity to me. In general they're bad because you can have more active than you can carry which means that, unless you're rolling Logistics, you're going to be making a lot of trips to the Supply Depot. Beyond that there's no real payout for having higher tiers unless you plan on mixing them (standard/advanced to have more out at the same time) which as I've stated earlier probably shouldn't be happening in the game in the first place. This isn't to say that you shouldn't be able to deploy a lot of proximity mines though, but we'll get to that in a bit.
There's no increase in damage, no increase in splash radius and their resource costs go up exponentially like everything else. So you're dropping hundreds of thousands of skill points to use more of them but again this falls on the fact that you can have more active than you can carry so it's a cyclical issue of having to build a suit around them (Logistics with explosives + nanohives) or run back and forth constantly in order to get more.
Proximity Mines by themselves don't hardly do that much damage and they don't cover that wide of an area. Combined damage works wonders but considering that they only have a five meter range you're going to have to choose between covering more ground and doing less damage or going for the kill by placing them in a single location. To top it off they're absolutely ineffective against anything besides HAVs - Dropships for obvious reasons and LAVs because they explode AFTER the LAV has driven over them if they're moving at high speeds, often only killing the gunner (if any) but leaving the vehicle itself unscathed. Either way the damage of Proximity Mines needs to increase or the amount active/carried needs to increase, one of the two.
Remote Explosives are actually pretty well balanced (all bugs aside) as they're mostly used for a defense role and can be killed by practically anything. A single shot from any weapon will set them off and grenades work wonders at clearing them out. Despite this, not having an increase in splash radius keeps them in check and you're having to put some thought into their placement to avoid them being detonated by the enemy, rather than you.
Beyond this they act like other pieces of equipment in that they don't go away after you die, making them useful regardless of death as you can just respawn and detonate the remote explosives anyway. Unfortunately, Proximity Mines do disappear - making them less useful than they already are.
Proposal: 'The Repair Dart'
I've discussed this with some of my corp-mates (Logistics players) and they seemed pretty excited at the proposal so I figured I'd share it with the rest of you and see some feedback. This idea was mostly inspired as a hybrid between the Brink revive system and the healing method used in Killing Floor.
Considering the limitations in efficiency of the Repair Tool and the Nanite Injector in terms of Planetary Conquest I toyed with the idea of mixing the two into a Repair Dart. Essentially it retains the lock-on capability that the Repair Tool has but instead of having to keep the lock and hold the trigger down to repair the player, you simply lock-on and fire a dart that does the job for you, repairing the player over a certain period of time.
As an example, we'll say 45 HP/s for 10 seconds for a total of 450 HP repaired. This isn't so far out of the realm of proper balancing as it's what the repair tools do anyway but it allows the Logistics to switch back to their weapon and continue fighting. Obviously there would be a cool-down in effect to limit the usage of it, which I feel would be well balanced to coincide with the time at which the dart is repairing, so 10 seconds. This would allow the common Repair Tool to still be useful as it allows for Guardian points and some variants are better for vehicles, have longer ranges and more targets.
This could also be beneficial in utilization for reviving as you could lock-on to a fallen ally and fire the dart, which would bring them back to life and slowly repair armor over time. This way the Nanite Injector is still a viable alternative, repairing the armor damage instantly as opposed to time lapsed.
Combining the two into one piece of equipment would make it more enticing to use in tandem with other options like Nanohives, primarily keep a gun in the Logistic's hands and allow him to help his team-mates in more ways than just putting down Drop Uplinks and repairing with Nanohives. It also gives them the option to choose a more specialized method like the Repair Tool and the Nanite Injector which would perform better but with less versatility. |
Vin Mora
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
87
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 12:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
I like where this is going, even though I think that you make some assumptions (probably correct for PC at least) on the play styles of Logis.
I personally dislike repair Nanohives, because they aren't restoring ammo, which I think is more useful to assaulting players.
EDIT: Love the idea for the Repair Dart, reminds me of the Phoenix gun from Resistance 2 Co-op. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
2308
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 12:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vin Mora wrote:I like where this is going, even though I think that you make some assumptions (probably correct for PC at least) on the play styles of Logis.
I personally dislike repair Nanohives, because they aren't restoring ammo, which I think is more useful to assaulting players.
EDIT: Love the idea for the Repair Dart, reminds me of the Phoenix gun from Resistance 2 Co-op.
In PC, most Logi's use a combination of Triage and Gauged Nanohives (might be wrong on the Gauged bit) that are placed on top of each other for a total of two repair hives and two ammo hives. This increases the maximum output dramatically for quick restoration and resupply.
In Pub Matches however, players are a little more relaxed and use the Combo hives (K/17-D (R) as an example).
Keep in mind that this bit of the series was made solely under the impression that the equipment used is being used in a PC match, so it is a bit skewed. |
Vin Mora
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
87
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 13:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Vin Mora wrote:I like where this is going, even though I think that you make some assumptions (probably correct for PC at least) on the play styles of Logis.
I personally dislike repair Nanohives, because they aren't restoring ammo, which I think is more useful to assaulting players.
EDIT: Love the idea for the Repair Dart, reminds me of the Phoenix gun from Resistance 2 Co-op. In PC, most Logi's use a combination of Triage and Gauged Nanohives (might be wrong on the Gauged bit) that are placed on top of each other for a total of two repair hives and two ammo hives. This increases the maximum output dramatically for quick restoration and resupply. In Pub Matches however, players are a little more relaxed and use the Combo hives (K/17-D (R) as an example). Keep in mind that this bit of the series was made solely under the impression that the equipment used is being used in a PC match, so it is a bit skewed.
Yea, I noticed the skew, I actually really don't like the 'passive' heal that is provided by Repair hives, in the sense that they are static heal stations. However, this is a bit eye opening, and I may need to switch out my loadout.
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
2308
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 13:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vin Mora wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Vin Mora wrote:I like where this is going, even though I think that you make some assumptions (probably correct for PC at least) on the play styles of Logis.
I personally dislike repair Nanohives, because they aren't restoring ammo, which I think is more useful to assaulting players.
EDIT: Love the idea for the Repair Dart, reminds me of the Phoenix gun from Resistance 2 Co-op. In PC, most Logi's use a combination of Triage and Gauged Nanohives (might be wrong on the Gauged bit) that are placed on top of each other for a total of two repair hives and two ammo hives. This increases the maximum output dramatically for quick restoration and resupply. In Pub Matches however, players are a little more relaxed and use the Combo hives (K/17-D (R) as an example). Keep in mind that this bit of the series was made solely under the impression that the equipment used is being used in a PC match, so it is a bit skewed. Yea, I noticed the skew, I actually really don't like the 'passive' heal that is provided by Repair hives, in the sense that they are static heal stations. However, this is a bit eye opening, and I may need to switch out my loadout.
I honestly chalk up Repair Hives into meta-gaming.
Which, for those of you who don't know (I had another player ask earlier what this meant) Meta-Gaming is basically using knowledge of certain game mechanics to the person's favor in an unsporting way.
Okay, so that may be a bit of an exaggeration but I feel that Repair Hives are very "fire and forget" which Dust 514 has a lot of (Swarm Launchers, Contact Grenades etc) and having them in-game takes a lot of legitimate team work out of the game in favor of letting the nanohive do the work.
But, yanno, it's whatever works and whatever is most efficient. In PC, you play to win and that's not for the bragging rights that's for a long term investment so it's not so much me thinking that it is 'unsporting' so much as something I personally feel is taking away from the interaction between players.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
3690
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 13:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Instead of a repair dart, how about a repair tool that heals a large amount of armor in a short amount of time but has a cooldown between uses? Call it a pulse repair tool. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
2309
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 13:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Instead of a repair dart, how about a repair tool that heals a large amount of armor in a short amount of time but has a cooldown between uses? Call it a pulse repair tool.
Could work but it would have to be a very large amount in a very short amount of time for them to be useful in PC. Logistics need to have a gun in their hands. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3691
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 13:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Cosgar wrote:Instead of a repair dart, how about a repair tool that heals a large amount of armor in a short amount of time but has a cooldown between uses? Call it a pulse repair tool. Could work but it would have to be a very large amount in a very short amount of time for them to be useful in PC. Logistics need to have a gun in their hands.
I'm thinking instead of a numerical value, something percentage based. You point the tool, fire and your target recovers HP equal to 30, 50, 80% of their maximum armor instantly for the standard, advanced and proto tiers but has a long cooldown to prevent spamming. Triage bonuses would be prorated accordingly so it balances out to our current repair tools. Part of the reason why I personally use reppers is because like you said, it takes a weapon off the field. I use triage hives almost exclusively because it increases my support range indefinitely compared to chasing someone around with a tool out. |
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
2312
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 14:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Cosgar wrote:Instead of a repair dart, how about a repair tool that heals a large amount of armor in a short amount of time but has a cooldown between uses? Call it a pulse repair tool. Could work but it would have to be a very large amount in a very short amount of time for them to be useful in PC. Logistics need to have a gun in their hands. I'm thinking instead of a numerical value, something percentage based. You point the tool, fire and your target recovers HP equal to 30, 50, 80% of their maximum armor instantly for the standard, advanced and proto tiers but has a long cooldown to prevent spamming. Triage bonuses would be prorated accordingly so it balances out to our current repair tools. Part of the reason why I personally use reppers is because like you said, it takes a weapon off the field. I use triage hives almost exclusively because it increases my support range indefinitely compared to chasing someone around with a tool out.
I dunno about instantly. Even with the cooldown I'd hate to see a Heavy shoot back up to 80% armor because of a well-timed use of that tool. I do think it should coincide with the recharge speed of some shield tankers, however, as some of them can recharge in the 30-40 HP/s range.
This might be the design decision behind Repair Tools as they currently are, actually...
I like where it's going though. Give it a little re-iteration and it might turn out to be a pretty cool addition. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
473
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 14:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
If I'm getting kept alive by a nanohive, I'll still die from a single locus grenade. Just sayin'.
Also, you're writing the post from a PC perspective, but when discussing nanite injectors you talk about the basic ones and how the lack of WP means people have no incentive to upgrade. You also talk about the revived guy dying again as if this really matters much when the measure of success is clone count. So most of your discussion about injectors is nonsense. I agree that injectors can be pointless when the explosive spam is heavy.
Repair tools are weaksauce, and the repair dart is a cool idea. Repair tools are still useful to top people off, or where shooting back yourself would be too dangerous. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
1367
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Instead of a repair dart, how about a repair tool that heals a large amount of armor in a short amount of time but has a cooldown between uses? Call it a pulse repair tool.
I suggested a repair tool with an overheat mechanic awhile back, it would essentially function like this but be a bit less 'all or nothing' since its effect would scale with the heat level requiring tactical management for maximum value. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
1367
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nanohives - There's a thread regarding armor and shield balance that's shown pretty conclusively how armor repair as a whole is pretty underwhelming currently. The repper hives, being frankly the lease effective on average, are far from "too effective".
Completely glossing over the "one nade = no hive" aspect there is the tactical liability which is static placement. Yes if you simply spam so many they cover a wide area then the static placement is less of an issue but to do so requires time, SP, fit swapping and/or more than one merc devoted to it. Time is a huge asset in PC battles and deploying hives takes someone "out of the fight" and leaves them exposed... unless their squad guards them which then keeps the whole squad rooted to a general area. If you're digging in to entrench a position this may be fine, which is more or less specifically what repper hives are for. Even then a single flux can wipe out large swaths of deployables while softening up any near by mercs making the value of having spammed hives 'useful but situational'.
Having been playing support logi since closed I can say without equivocation that I've gotten vastly more use from repair tools than repper hives. The assessment in the OP also fails to include number of clusters or the WP earnings cool down both of which truncate the value of hives and essentially leave spamming the hives the only viable workaround. In the end however it's the nanohives status as "most useful for a slayer to carry" that gets them spammed the most even after the major nerf they took at the beginning of this build.
Uplinks - Fix the current bug that makes them detectable everywhere and then leave everything else for a month or two so that actual data can be collected. Uplinks were no less effective in Chrome, in fact without the "I see you everywhere" bug there were more effective in Chrome and they weren't spammed nearly as smuch. In the zero sum game of fittings the utility gained from every item must be considered and dismissing that can result in heavy handed mechanical shifts. So much like CCP did with the Mass Driver they should only fix the bug and touch nothing else until substantial time has passed so that real data can be collected on the non-bugged use of the uplink. Also I should say "bugs" not "bug" because in addition to the "see you everywhere" bug there's the "uplink inside solid objects/ground" bug which also needs to go.
Repair Tools - I agree in general regarding the repair tool except as noted above regarding hives. There is one other exception as well, of course you should get Guardian points for guarding a squad lead while they are calling in an orbital. It's an one of the few situations where the name fits like a glove and where it's a net tactical asset rather than just being in direct, and failing, contention with the raw output of dps. If you really want to "out" questionable WP awards gained by OBs it'd be putting the defend order on a vehicle full of teammates (dropships work best for this followed by HAVs, due to seats) and then jumping into the vehicle after calling the OB to stack "vehicle kill assist" WPs + order bonus + SL commission. Per kill this method nets 50 + [(35*5)*1.2] + SL commission per infantry OB kill, at 295 WP a kill a 9 kill OB will more than earn another full OB for the squad. Even the HAV method which is limited by seats still nets 50 + [(35*2)*1.2] + SL commission nets 148 WP per infantry kill, letting a 1 kill OB outstrip the WP earnings the repair tool Guardian points while maintaining higher mobility, not hampering dps output and not requiring the use of an equipment slot.
Here's a great fix for repair tools which could be applied to both infantry and vehicle repairs.
continued below |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
1367
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nanite Injectors - OP is correct injectors are still broken in several ways. CCP has stated that it's on their list of things to fix but requires the completion of a more granular WP awards system which is in the works but not yet completed. Adding Active scanner WP awards is also an intended part of the new system. Re: Active scanners as the OP states there may be some issues which need addressed in their function but we won't really know until other changes come down. It's worth keeping an eye on as the OP suggests.
RE/Prox - Pretty much agree with the OP on this score, aside from one point; I'm still not persuaded that being able to deploy different types simultaneously when fully skilled into an equipment type is a problem, in large part due to how easy it is for a single nade, missile volley, MD, FG, plasma, flaylock etc. shot to destroy deployed gear en mass combined with how long it takes in game to deploy dispersed equipment (time is one of the most valuable and finite of resources in a match especially PC and should not be overlooked when considering balance and value).
Proposal: 'The Repair Dart' - I'll have to consider this more before making any substantive comment.
EDIT: For more on equipment balance and WP awards see this long running thread. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
479
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:There is one other exception as well, of course you should get Guardian points for guarding a squad lead while they are calling in an orbital.
Is everyone taking crazy pills? If you're repping a squad leader at full armor when he drops an orbital, you aren't really guarding him. Either A) no one comes and its pointless or B) someone does come and he dies instantly because armor rep is slow and people that stand still die fast. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3726
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Damn Cross, you have all these ideas but always go unheard. I got some reading to catch up on.
PS: Sorry about the REs, I was testing out a "Demoman" fitting that night. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
1369
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Oso Peresoso wrote:Cross Atu wrote:There is one other exception as well, of course you should get Guardian points for guarding a squad lead while they are calling in an orbital. Is everyone taking crazy pills? If you're repping a squad leader at full armor when he drops an orbital, you aren't really guarding him. Either A) no one comes and its pointless or B) someone does come and he dies instantly because armor rep is slow and people that stand still die fast.
Or C) he's in at least partial cover, you're using a worthwhile repair tool and you've properly fit your suit with high eHP so you can body shield him long enough for the OB to be dropped/threat to be dealt with. In fact "C" is something I've personally done on several occasions. Granted sometimes I die doing this (and then earn no WP for the action) but the OB is still called in or at least the SL is given time to back out of the OB map and remove himself from danger. Your binary assumption above is excessively limited as well as inaccurate. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
1369
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Damn Cross, you have all these ideas but always go unheard. I got some reading to catch up on. PS: Sorry about the REs, I was testing out a "Demoman" fitting that night.
No worries bro it'll help me learn to always check before I hack, otherwise I deserve what I get. Nice placement by the way
As to ideas I'm looking forward to your input 
Cheers,
Cross |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
2208
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 18:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Nanohives -snip- The repper hives, being frankly the lease effective on average, are far from "too effective".
I'll respond to the entirety of your post later, but I think triage nanohives are fine and don't need buffing. |
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
1377
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 18:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Cross Atu wrote:Nanohives -snip- The repper hives, being frankly the lease effective on average, are far from "too effective".
I'll respond to the entirety of your post later, but I think triage nanohives are fine and don't need buffing.
I agree, if my post construed otherwise I'd like to clarify that now. The "on average" comment was meant as a comparison of utility between repper hives and other repair types not as an assertion that repper hives are at present in need of a buff.
Cheers,
Cross |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
2321
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 00:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alright - the contention point here is that there's the impression that I'm saying that Nanohives are too effective. This isn't the case.
When stacked against REPAIR TOOLS they are too effective because they're just better overall. Sure, they suffer the issue of static placement but that's not that big of an issue when the person who dropped them is firing at the enemy and covering for me whenever I'm repairing.
You very rarely, if ever, see a dedicated PC corporation using Repair Tools/Nanite Injectors for this reason - it's better overall to leave it to chance and let the person sit on a nanohive with the potential for it to be taken out than to lose another gun trying to bring them back into the fight, in which their proximity is ultimately going to result in more deaths.
Nanite Injectors are in a grey area. There are players that think they're useful for keeping clone loss to a minimum but at the same time there's some contradiction toward that logic as you are, again, putting yourself at risk to bring the person back. This means that instead of the person dying and respawning you could be dying yourself and increase the clones lost by making an attempt. It's just more efficient to abandon the injector.
So, yes, I agree. Repair Tools are more reliable but Nanohives are still more efficient. I would much rather take it to chance and sit in a nanohive for my repairs than have the guy repairing me when he could potentially be firing back/keeping the enemy at bay. There's a lot of PC capable corporations that hallmark on this notion, it's not limited to just me.
And to answer someone else that said Repair Tools are good if it's too dangerous for you to fire - what are you both doing in that situation anyway O_o? |
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