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Repe Susi
Rautaleijona Top Men.
542
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Posted - 2013.08.01 06:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, lay it down to me.
Is Wiyrkomi SOOOO much more good than Advanced Swarm Launcher in practice? I know protos get more missiles of course but in practice, really. Tell me.
How many adv. SL hits can good tank take versus how many it can stand against Wiyrkomi? |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1017
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Posted - 2013.08.01 07:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
that is a numbers game but the bigger numbers come damage mods and damage skills at the proto lvl vs advanced. in the AV world its has the largest jumps just from MLT to proto on FG there is only 240 difference per shot in the SL from advanced to proto its 330 and that's only one tier vs 3 tier lvls. sorry off topic a little bit.... SL has bad scaling. more missiles in the same clip would mean smaller missiles which in would do less damage per missile. |
Royce Kronos
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
86
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Posted - 2013.08.01 14:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
I would agree. It is all the damage skills and modules that get it over the top. I'll throw some numbers at you.
Advanced SL: Missiles per shot = 5 Damage per missile = 330 Total damage per shot = 1650
Proto SL: Missiles per shot = 6 Damage per missile = 330 Total damage per shot = 1980
But that's without any damage mods or skills. If you have max proficiency in SL's, that's a 15% increase in your damage.
1980 * 1.15 = 2277
Just with the proficiency skill, that is a 297 damage increase.
Now consider that with 2 complex damage mods. I am assuming that the proficiency skill stacks with the other multipliers.
1980 * 1.15 * 1.1869 = 2702.57
That is 722.57 more damage. Over a 35% damage increase, even before the explosive damage bonus to armor. Just to throw that in quick: (I am currently assuming a 20% bonus against armor, although it may currently be more.)
1980 * 1.15 * 1.1869 * 1.2 = 3243.1
That's the benefits of percentile scaling. Hope this helps.
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Fist Groinpunch
Goonfeet Top Men.
28
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Posted - 2013.08.01 17:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Would getting the first level of SL ammo capacity skill get me an extra round of rockets? It only gives 5% extra, but does the game round it up?
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Royce Kronos
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
92
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Posted - 2013.08.01 17:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think it would. I will have to find the source, but I remember CCP saying that all percentiles are rounded up or down accordingly in favor of the player.
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Bears Beets
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
617
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Posted - 2013.08.01 19:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fist Groinpunch wrote:Would getting the first level of SL ammo capacity skill get me an extra round of rockets? It only gives 5% extra, but does the game round it up?
To clarify though, you'd only be getting that extra round added to your reserve ammo (or ammo capacity). It won't make your clip size any larger. You'll have to reload just as much.
If you're worried about ammo, you can always grab a cheapo Nanohive to bring with you on your AV adventures. |
Fist Groinpunch
Goonfeet Top Men.
28
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Posted - 2013.08.01 19:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Awesome, thank you both. |
Royce Kronos
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
93
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Posted - 2013.08.01 19:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bears Beets wrote:Fist Groinpunch wrote:Would getting the first level of SL ammo capacity skill get me an extra round of rockets? It only gives 5% extra, but does the game round it up?
To clarify though, you'd only be getting that extra round added to your reserve ammo (or ammo capacity). It won't make your clip size any larger. You'll have to reload just as much. If you're worried about ammo, you can always grab a cheapo Nanohive to bring with you on your AV adventures. Correct, but the SL Operations skill does increases your clip size per level.
I think fully maxed out, you will have a 6 round clip, with 2 more for ammo.
Basically, you should always run a nano-hive with SL's.
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1021
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Posted - 2013.08.01 21:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Royce Kronos wrote:Bears Beets wrote:Fist Groinpunch wrote:Would getting the first level of SL ammo capacity skill get me an extra round of rockets? It only gives 5% extra, but does the game round it up?
To clarify though, you'd only be getting that extra round added to your reserve ammo (or ammo capacity). It won't make your clip size any larger. You'll have to reload just as much. If you're worried about ammo, you can always grab a cheapo Nanohive to bring with you on your AV adventures. Correct, but the SL Operations skill does increases your clip size per level. I think fully maxed out, you will have a 6 round clip, with 2 more for ammo. Edited: My apologies. Your base ammo capacity is 6. If you have SL Operations max, you will have no ammo reserves. Once you get the SL ammo capacity skill to 4, you will have the 2 extra rounds. (Will confirm tonight.) Basically, you should always run a nano-hive with SL's. you know the SL starts with 3 per clip, btw they round down, always. so you'll never get more then 4 for the clip. |
Royce Kronos
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
93
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Posted - 2013.08.01 21:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
ladwar wrote:you know the SL starts with 3 per clip, btw they round down, always. so you'll never get more then 4 for the clip. Actually I think not. Maxed out, you should have 5 rounds per clip and 1 round in ammo. Source is Fox Gaden's guide, but I will confirm tonight. My bad though.
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1021
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Posted - 2013.08.01 22:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Royce Kronos wrote:ladwar wrote:you know the SL starts with 3 per clip, btw they round down, always. so you'll never get more then 4 for the clip. Actually I think not. Maxed out, you should have 5 rounds per clip and 1 round in ammo. Source is Fox Gaden's guide, but I will confirm tonight. My bad though. even if it does round up( it shouldn't and if it does that is a problem with CCP and their math skills&coding) that would only 5 rounds per clip.
if you only have room for 4.5 rounds when you load a 5th half the round won't fit and jam or break the clip/gun and thus you would need to round down always. |
Royce Kronos
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
93
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Posted - 2013.08.01 22:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yeah, it should be only 5 rounds per clip. I messed that one up.
Operation: I am assuming that the SL Operations skill increases clip size by 5%. Also assuming that ammo capacity is a percentage value of your total ammo pool, i.e. Swarm Launchers clip size = 50% of 100% of your ammo pool:
A 25% increase would put your at a 75% clip size of your total ammo pool. One shot being approximately 16.667% of your total ammo, thus 4 shots would be 66.68% of your total ammo pool.
Assuming they round values in favor of players, your 75% clip size should be rounded to 83.34%, or 5 shots in your clip.
I'll try and find that post though and see if they indeed do round up.
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1021
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 22:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Royce Kronos wrote:Yeah, it should be only 5 rounds per clip. I messed that one up. Operation: I am assuming that the SL Operations skill increases clip size by 5%. Also assuming that ammo capacity is a percentage value of your total ammo pool, i.e. Swarm Launchers clip size = 50% of 100% of your ammo pool: A 25% increase would put your at a 75% clip size of your total ammo pool. One shot being approximately 16.667% of your total ammo, thus 4 shots would be 66.68% of your total ammo pool. Assuming they round values in favor of players, your 75% clip size should be rounded to 83.34%, or 5 shots in your clip. I'll try and find that post though and see if they indeed do round up. they round up on the flaylock with the minmatar assault and shouldn't (giving 4 rounds per clip when its only 3.75 room). its a volume vs space thing which it makes me believe CCP failed out of college math. i never did have an issue with it from a balance gameplay stance so i never made a big deal out of it but it is the incorrect way to do the math in this case. |
Royce Kronos
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
93
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Posted - 2013.08.01 22:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Royce Kronos wrote:Yeah, it should be only 5 rounds per clip. I messed that one up. Operation: I am assuming that the SL Operations skill increases clip size by 5%. Also assuming that ammo capacity is a percentage value of your total ammo pool, i.e. Swarm Launchers clip size = 50% of 100% of your ammo pool: A 25% increase would put your at a 75% clip size of your total ammo pool. One shot being approximately 16.667% of your total ammo, thus 4 shots would be 66.68% of your total ammo pool. Assuming they round values in favor of players, your 75% clip size should be rounded to 83.34%, or 5 shots in your clip. I'll try and find that post though and see if they indeed do round up. they round up on the flaylock with the minmatar assault and shouldn't (giving 4 rounds per clip when its only 3.75 room). its a volume vs space thing which it makes me believe CCP failed out of college math. Agreed. I understand their intention behind it, but I think they should do an actual ammo increase instead of the percentile bonuses they currently do. (The percentile bonuses on ammo currently makes some levels give no bonus.)
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cedz636
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2013.08.01 22:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Referring back to the original post, keep in mind the penalty versus Caldari (shield tanking) vehicles. My corp mates and I are all tank operators, and swarm launchers hardly strike fear in us unless at the proto level. Where we would normally eat the damage from standard, or adv SL fire, I generally pop the repper when I see a swarm doing more than 2,500 damage. Is there that big of a difference between adv and proto SL? From my end, yes. |
Repe Susi
Rautaleijona Top Men.
546
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 11:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
cedz636 wrote:Referring back to the original post, keep in mind the penalty versus Caldari (shield tanking) vehicles. My corp mates and I are all tank operators, and swarm launchers hardly strike fear in us unless at the proto level. Where we would normally eat the damage from standard, or adv SL fire, I generally pop the repper when I see a swarm doing more than 2,500 damage. Is there that big of a difference between adv and proto SL? From my end, yes.
Thanks for this. All other replies were very (dis)informative as well but to lay it down like you did I appreciate. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
582
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Posted - 2013.08.03 17:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Royce Kronos wrote:I would agree. It is all the damage skills and modules that get it over the top. I'll throw some numbers at you. Advanced SL: Missiles per shot = 5 Damage per missile = 330 Total damage per shot = 1650 Proto SL: Missiles per shot = 6 Damage per missile = 330 Total damage per shot = 1980 But that's without any damage mods or skills. If you have max proficiency in SL's, that's a 15% increase in your damage. 1980 * 1.15 = 2277Just with the proficiency skill, that is a 297 damage increase. Now consider that with 2 complex damage mods. I am assuming that the proficiency skill stacks with the other multipliers. 1980 * 1.15 * 1.1869 = 2702.57That is 722.57 more damage. Over a 35% damage increase, even before the explosive damage bonus to armor. Just to throw that in quick: (I am currently assuming a 20% bonus against armor, although it may currently be more.) 1980 * 1.15 * 1.1869 * 1.2 = 3243.1That's the benefits of percentile scaling. Hope this helps. What he said.
Most weapons such as the AR scale at 5% damage increase per level. The addition of an entire missile to the proto SL results in the aforementioned 15% increase in damage... it is frickin' awesome and, as he said, stacks with your proficiency skill, and all of this base damage means that numerically your damage modifiers are even better. [EDIT: Excuse me, he meant 15% from proficiency. The extra missile is a full 20% (duh) increase in damage. It is the most ridiculous scaling from Adv to Proto in the game]
Run proto swarms on an advanced Minmatar Assault suit with 3 complex damage modifiers and can 2-3 shot militia tank, 1-shot 90% of LAVs, and put the fear of God into LLAVs that are not used to dealing with effective countermeasures. Proto swarms and assault forge launchers are also the only things that can truly disrupt really pro tankers.
So yes, it is worth it. CBR-7s are quite nice and are a really really cheap (SP wise) AV investment that more people should utilize, and they can disrupt, but the Wyrkomi is what is going to get you kills. |
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