DUST Search - A Temporary Fix for Shield Vs. Armor Vehicles [Request]

KalOfTheRathi wrote:

Interesting but these types of tweaks will not be effective. What you, OP, are missing is Data. As in, you have None. CCP/Shanghai has it but the API to share it with us is not released yet, like so many things that are in the SOON(hah!) bucket.

Without it you're just throwing darts. Ugh

The real problem is the Shield Tank was broken during Uprising. The Shield tank collision detection is broken and has been since way before Chromosome. For that matter, I suspect All Vehicle Shield collision detection is off by a significant amount and always has been. Just driving a Madruger around and even its tinker toy shields can disappear driving around a map. Something is definitely off.

I switched to Armor and haven't looked back. With SP being as expensive as it is down here in the DUST I seriously don't recommend skilling into broken gear. They adjusted something (speed?) for the Gunlogis and it contributed to making it not worth using under many circumstances, IMO. A Madruger is as effective for sniping. Although missiles might be great I cannot comment as I don't use Large Missile Turrets.

Don't forget they just hammered the heavy armor repair tool. Which I have yet to test, so your mileage may very on that as well. If they did as their post suggested in the bug fix then the advantage of Armor has been reduced. If it hasn't been fixed yet, then Armor will be less effective when it does get fixed.

Many things were broken when Uprising and its various patches were released. CCP/Shanghai has been grinding through their fixes, some we wanted and some we didn't, but it is still quite a long list. So patience would probably be the best suggestion here.


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Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 32	Posted - 2013.08.01 02:36:00 - [1] - Quote We all know there's quite an imbalance between Shield and Armor vehicles, the winner in all areas being shield. However, this is not a post about making it balanced, but simply a temporary measure until CCP has time to work on the imbalance. The current issue for vehicles is the lack of powergrid. In a Gunnlogi, currently I have two of the best powergrid expansion units for 15% increase apiece in both of my lows and still don't have the pg to fit two heavy extenders and a heavy rep, even the supplemental ones which use less pg. I even did a theoretical fit, using the lowest pg a Tank can possibly use up (Standard missile turrets) plus the two pg extenders, currently with lvl 3 in Vehicle Core Upgrades, and I still cannot fit two extenders and a rep. I even left the other two high slots empty. My request is simple. Vehicle Armor Plating gives a 3% decrease in pg consumption of armor plates. I request that Vehicle Shield Extension give a powergrid reduction as well in lieu of the current reduction to CPU it gives. By no means am I saying this will fix all the imbalance between the two different tanks, nor will I repeat those arguments again here. But this is a quick fix until such time as vehicles get the proper attention they need. A little painkiller before the surgery as it were.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 32	Posted - 2013.08.01 03:19:00 - [2] - Quote I did misspeak, and will correct my post.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 32	Posted - 2013.08.01 04:02:00 - [3] - Quote I think that changing the skill bonus shouldn't be that hard, since they stealth-changed vehicle engineering to the near-useless bonus it has now. But the fact that Armor can reach comparable, and even higher, raw hp and still fit the proper sized rep is ridiculous. 180mm Reinforced Nanofiber Plate: Gives 2448 hp Uses 20 CPU Uses 928 powergrid 2 Heavy Supplemental Shield Extenders (stats are two combined) Gives 3420 hp Uses 120 CPU Uses 1088 powergrid In an hp to pg fraction, the armor gets ~2.64 hp per 1 pg. The 2 extenders get ~3.14 hp per pg. A difference of 0.5 hp per 1 pg, and that's before the pg reduction bonus. And that's a single plate versus 2 extenders, which means armor is using one less slot. I'm not asking for the overhaul to happen right now. I understand such things take time. But armor has an acknowledged glitch rep, and while I agree with CCP's decision to keep it as it is to balance it against AV, at the least shield's should be able to fit the proper rep on their tanks.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 32	Posted - 2013.08.01 05:18:00 - [4] - Quote Tanks should be able to do either one based on what turret they have, and differ in how they deal with damage. Armor should have a lot of ehp, but be slow to repair, allowing them to endure an attack but recover slowly after the engagement. Shield should have less total ehp, but be able to restore that health quickly in short bursts, allowing them to get back into the fight.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 34	Posted - 2013.08.01 16:27:00 - [5] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Interesting but these types of tweaks will not be effective. What you, OP, are missing is Data. As in, you have None. CCP/Shanghai has it but the API to share it with us is not released yet, like so many things that are in the SOON(hah!) bucket. Without it you're just throwing darts. The real problem is the Shield Tank was broken during Uprising. The Shield tank collision detection is broken and has been since way before Chromosome. For that matter, I suspect All Vehicle Shield collision detection is off by a significant amount and always has been. Just driving a Madruger around and even its tinker toy shields can disappear driving around a map. Something is definitely off. I switched to Armor and haven't looked back. With SP being as expensive as it is down here in the DUST I seriously don't recommend skilling into broken gear. They adjusted something (speed?) for the Gunlogis and it contributed to making it not worth using under many circumstances, IMO. A Madruger is as effective for sniping. Although missiles might be great I cannot comment as I don't use Large Missile Turrets. Don't forget they just hammered the heavy armor repair tool. Which I have yet to test, so your mileage may very on that as well. If they did as their post suggested in the bug fix then the advantage of Armor has been reduced. If it hasn't been fixed yet, then Armor will be less effective when it does get fixed. Many things were broken when Uprising and its various patches were released. CCP/Shanghai has been grinding through their fixes, some we wanted and some we didn't, but it is still quite a long list. So patience would probably be the best suggestion here. My point is, regardless of when they fix it, giving shield a pg reducing skill like armor has will at least let me fit a proper size rep, and that would help out until they make a full pass on vehicles. There are already a lot of threads on how to balance shields and armor, but my idea is a quick bandaid while they implement those changes.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 34	Posted - 2013.08.02 05:44:00 - [6] - Quote Aizen Intiki wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Aizen Intiki wrote: Madrugar's can't do that either, and to get more PG (which they need) you have to give up slots that their tank is in. All they need to do is put the engineering skill back to where it used to be, so slightly nerfed: 3-5% PG per level. I think you're misunderstanding what he's saying. He's asking that the Shield Extender skill give the same bonus as the Armor Plate skill. Also, I think the OP mispoke and meant to say that Armor is the winner between the two tank types. Yes, I understood that. Look at his fit. Notice that he's trying to put on 2 Large extenders. Gallente HAV's can't do that without 2 PG extenders, and you can forget about the heavy rep. But if you took the time to see that, and thought about it, yo would know that. Gallente can get equivalent hp from one plate that takes shields 2 extenders. This is my point.