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Do Mass Drivers really need Six Shots?

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Billi Gene The Southern Legion 195	Posted - 2013.07.31 07:05:00 - [1] - Quote Skihids wrote: He is crying about it because he can't stand being killed by anything that he isn't using himself. It's simple really. Some people don't have any tolerance for diversity. They won't be happy until they turn DUST into a1v1 dueling match so they can demonstrate their elite shooting skills. They can't stand the thought of a messy battlefield where they may die because someone got the drop on them with a situational weapon. They rage whenever they die to anyone they don't consider as elite as themselves. They compensate by deriding anything other than their choice of weapon as "noob" weapon. That way they don't have to take responsibility for having died and their fragile ego can remain intact. The sad thing is that they can actually be quite good shots. Skill doesn't necessarily factor into who is going to fall prey to this way of thinking. In their mind every battle should be an exactly even contest, mano a mano. If you shotgun them in the face or MD them from a roof you are lousy cheating scum who is using a noob weapon to win, because you certainly couldn't beat them if you were using their weapon (like a real man). The only cure is to realize that DUST is modeling a messy battlefield with many different weapon systems that all have different strengths and weaknesses and if you die to one it doesn't necessarily mean you are "bad" or that your teammates should laugh at you. It shouldn't threaten your ego if you get popped by a shotgun to the face. Just let the rage go and enjoy the diversity that is DUST. Quoted for truth
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 195	Posted - 2013.07.31 07:13:00 - [2] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: I hate all this whinning. Especially from the ppl who go from one OP flavor of the day to the next. Splash damage of MD is matched to slow projectile speed and low ROF, making it only effective for either mid range crowd control or CQC. Now lets talk about AR and its endless clip. You can literally miss half the rounds in a clip and still down a red dot with what's left in the clip. All self respecting FPS have slow projectile high damage RPG type weapons but it's only the BF/COD crowd in Dust who cry about these things. It's funny when ppl throw terms like 'noob tube' around and apply it to traditionally UP weapons. You know what I hate? I hate people who get their bum bum spanked out of PC and then come on forums thinking they understand the game Mass driver is a noob tube Mass driver has 6 shots Therefore, a mass driver is a noob tube with 6 shots. At least with my AR I have to track people not just look at their feet actually its entirely more entertaining when someone claims a team victory as their own. Then takes it a step further and uses their victory by association to qualify all further comments of their own, and as a resource for discrediting all other opinions. Your rationale for stating that the Mass Driver is a Noob Tube is non-existent, give reasons not rhetoric.
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 196	Posted - 2013.07.31 07:41:00 - [3] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Billi Gene wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: I hate all this whinning. Especially from the ppl who go from one OP flavor of the day to the next. Splash damage of MD is matched to slow projectile speed and low ROF, making it only effective for either mid range crowd control or CQC. Now lets talk about AR and its endless clip. You can literally miss half the rounds in a clip and still down a red dot with what's left in the clip. All self respecting FPS have slow projectile high damage RPG type weapons but it's only the BF/COD crowd in Dust who cry about these things. It's funny when ppl throw terms like 'noob tube' around and apply it to traditionally UP weapons. You know what I hate? I hate people who get their bum bum spanked out of PC and then come on forums thinking they understand the game Mass driver is a noob tube Mass driver has 6 shots Therefore, a mass driver is a noob tube with 6 shots. At least with my AR I have to track people not just look at their feet actually its entirely more entertaining when someone claims a team victory as their own. Then takes it a step further and uses their victory by association to qualify all further comments of their own, and as a resource for discrediting all other opinions. Your rationale for stating that the Mass Driver is a Noob Tube is non-existent, give reasons not rhetoric. Regnum carries us all, my ffriend, he is the reason TeamPlayers ever won a match. Retroactively he increased morale and was our eve pilot before he joined. Also, he eats chicken. ^ this and chicken if this were true then you would only need to field one player for all of your PC matches....well... Actions speak louder then Words :).. Make it SO!
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 196	Posted - 2013.07.31 07:52:00 - [4] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: @Billi Gene Why don't you attack Teamplayers and see what happens Im not an officer, :) in either case ... are you still claiming that you are the sole reason for your corporation and alliance doing well? and that when you go to battle all others on your team are of no consequence, that it is you and you alone that win the battle? further, that this is the reason that you can come onto the forums making wild accusations without proof or facts, and criticize any who disagree? cause you know... it kinda makes you sound like a dip stick.../just_saying...
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 196	Posted - 2013.07.31 07:53:00 - [5] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: @Billi Gene Why don't you attack Teamplayers and see what happens Aww we wouldn't want Regnum going 40-0 with a Wolfman's now would we? Best let the forum warrior wage battle here Reg I just wish people talked sense because I really do like debates, but his trashy trolling is worse than when my wife chews ice. lol.. I'm sure Reg can defend his words without a sidekick Zit :)
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 196	Posted - 2013.07.31 07:58:00 - [6] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Billi Gene wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: @Billi Gene Why don't you attack Teamplayers and see what happens Im not an officer, :) in either case ... are you still claiming that you are the sole reason for your corporation and alliance doing well? and that when you go to battle all others on your team are of no consequence, that it is you and you alone that win the battle? further, that this is the reason that you can come onto the forums making wild accusations without proof or facts, and criticize any who disagree? cause you know... it kinda makes you sound like a dip stick.../just_saying... ^ Scared TBH no, that is you being evasive.
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 196	Posted - 2013.07.31 08:05:00 - [7] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: HMG is fine, Spongly kills 8 people to every one death and he solo's fools by himself Lazer rifle's will be fine once they fix the sights. Forge Guns need a potential nerf against infantry, either a spread over distance or less blast radius so it takes more skill to hit, or maybe less splash damage, but getting 2 shot from a high place you can't get 2 doesn't off good counterplay. Nova Knives are a sidearm, they are fine. Shotguns are fine Flaylock actually is still way 2 good as a sidearm, it's better than any other cept maybe the smg or scrambler if you're mad accurate, but for the noobs who can't shoot....Flaylock will save you...much like running murder taxi's or sniping from an obscure spot. Not positive the MD needs a nerf. But the fact is you get 2 shot by it with over 750+ ehp or 1 shot if you're not armor heavy and are hit by a flux (aka any good MD flux's and then cleans up with one hit kills from on high) while being able to jump back into cover immediately after firing to eliminate the ability to kill the user.......... i agree with everything said here, but the Forge Gun is a hard problem being that its a heavy weapon, limited to the heavy suit. Nerfing the Forge Gun against infantry significantly lowers the survival of that fitting. I very seriously think that people just need to htfu and learn the angles to attack each tower type from as regards sniper rifles. The MD suffers from an incredibly low ammo count, even with skills. Sitting on a hive will only get you so far with it. Given that height is premium for any MD range is not, MD must/should flee when presented with a dedicated opponent at longer range, there is just no reliable manner to counter this with a MD. Hence the MD spam for tight interior maps.
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 196	Posted - 2013.07.31 08:07:00 - [8] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Billi Gene wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: @Billi Gene Why don't you attack Teamplayers and see what happens Aww we wouldn't want Regnum going 40-0 with a Wolfman's now would we? Best let the forum warrior wage battle here Reg I just wish people talked sense because I really do like debates, but his trashy trolling is worse than when my wife chews ice. lol.. I'm sure Reg can defend his words without a sidekick Zit :) It's Zatara brah. ;P But you meant to insult cause you're pretty petty and would rather talk than play dust...here bro...i'll send ya some isk if ya like for your trouble. How much do you need? Ill take what ever you want to send :).. i have plenty of alt accounts sitting around just accruing SP :) I was responding to your previous post in the time it took you to type this trash, and if I was rude to you, it was indeed a response to your own barbs directed at me :)
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 196	Posted - 2013.07.31 08:22:00 - [9] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Billi Gene wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: HMG is fine, Spongly kills 8 people to every one death and he solo's fools by himself Lazer rifle's will be fine once they fix the sights. Forge Guns need a potential nerf against infantry, either a spread over distance or less blast radius so it takes more skill to hit, or maybe less splash damage, but getting 2 shot from a high place you can't get 2 doesn't off good counterplay. Nova Knives are a sidearm, they are fine. Shotguns are fine Flaylock actually is still way 2 good as a sidearm, it's better than any other cept maybe the smg or scrambler if you're mad accurate, but for the noobs who can't shoot....Flaylock will save you...much like running murder taxi's or sniping from an obscure spot. Not positive the MD needs a nerf. But the fact is you get 2 shot by it with over 750+ ehp or 1 shot if you're not armor heavy and are hit by a flux (aka any good MD flux's and then cleans up with one hit kills from on high) while being able to jump back into cover immediately after firing to eliminate the ability to kill the user.......... i agree with everything said here, but the Forge Gun is a hard problem being that its a heavy weapon, limited to the heavy suit. Nerfing the Forge Gun against infantry significantly lowers the survival of that fitting. I very seriously think that people just need to htfu and learn the angles to attack each tower type from as regards sniper rifles. The MD suffers from an incredibly low ammo count, even with skills. Sitting on a hive will only get you so far with it. Given that height is premium for any MD range is not, MD must/should flee when presented with a dedicated opponent at longer range, there is just no reliable manner to counter this with a MD. Hence the MD spam for tight interior maps. You mean like running a swarm launcher? Cept Heavies can et a sidearm guaranteed vs logi's runnng swarms who would be more screwed. Why make the forge gun a heavy weapon? The highest EHP suit gets the weapon you can 2 shot people from got knows where, oh and wait it was meant to be av so good luck counterplaying it? With Flux's and nano's, a md is crazy good. With flux's you're basically giving a guy a flux nade and a contact locus nade you don't need to cook with a large clip. You 1, 2, or 3 shots all classes after fluxing them if semi accurate. Swarms are a light weapon, so they are anyones KITTEN. They Don't require the slowest suit ingame to fit them, in closed beta i had a scout suit swarm fit, to troll tanks with. The FG has a low ammo count/low clip size, the suit that fits it has no equipment slot, so when you see a FG on a tower, you aren't looking at the work of a single player.... and more often than not, by taking myself out of the battle and finding the best angle to cover the tower from i can force the heavy to abandon their tower 9 times out of 10, getting a kill on them is great, but not necessary. MD is crazy good, but so are most weapon systems when used appropriately. Assault Scrambler Rifle is my current fave :P even if it isn't ideal for armor, most of the time i only have to rip shields to force a retreat. because in a team game, numbers matter....
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 196	Posted - 2013.07.31 08:33:00 - [10] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Oh yeah, cause the assault rifle can toss mini contact nades that do slightly less damage out at you after a flux that has no falloff damage? So someone built their fit around making their primary weapon most effective? So thinking is OP now? More like if it took great skill I'd have no problem with it, but putting a stamina mod on your suit and running around cooking flux's all game so you can one shot someone isn't creating good balance IMO, though I admit I could be entirely wrong. I have a caldari assault suit with 500 shields a super fast regen shields rate and about 200 armor with a md. I can solo with it, because a flux and 2 quick shots that head towards an area while strafing (see ar's and such would have to aim here to make contact to deal damage, with my md strafing super fast is viable because no worries about lol spray and praying doing almost no damage) mops up 4 people. are you doing this inside installations or out in the open? Ive camped on crosswalks and rained death from above, and been almost entirely ignored by the pub proto-spammers below...was hilarious :P, wasnt wearing anything above ADV :P... and nothing on my adv suits are stacked, cause it messes up my numbers for restocking :P any ways my point being, the MD is an area denial system. If it took a hit to damage, then it cant be any worse then it was in early/mid chromosome, and i was happy with the assault variant THEN.... on a Logi suit no less :P, because i used the system for what it was designed for... area denial and terror tactics. So talk the talk... give solid reasons and not hyperbole and ill jump right on the band wagon... but nuff of the forum warriors bullKITTEN, who the KITTEN tries to shout down everyone but themselves... in a conversation?

Billi Gene The Southern Legion 196	Posted - 2013.07.31 08:38:00 - [11] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Billi Gene wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Billi Gene wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: HMG is fine, Spongly kills 8 people to every one death and he solo's fools by himself Lazer rifle's will be fine once they fix the sights. Forge Guns need a potential nerf against infantry, either a spread over distance or less blast radius so it takes more skill to hit, or maybe less splash damage, but getting 2 shot from a high place you can't get 2 doesn't off good counterplay. Nova Knives are a sidearm, they are fine. Shotguns are fine Flaylock actually is still way 2 good as a sidearm, it's better than any other cept maybe the smg or scrambler if you're mad accurate, but for the noobs who can't shoot....Flaylock will save you...much like running murder taxi's or sniping from an obscure spot. Not positive the MD needs a nerf. But the fact is you get 2 shot by it with over 750+ ehp or 1 shot if you're not armor heavy and are hit by a flux (aka any good MD flux's and then cleans up with one hit kills from on high) while being able to jump back into cover immediately after firing to eliminate the ability to kill the user.......... i agree with everything said here, but the Forge Gun is a hard problem being that its a heavy weapon, limited to the heavy suit. Nerfing the Forge Gun against infantry significantly lowers the survival of that fitting. I very seriously think that people just need to htfu and learn the angles to attack each tower type from as regards sniper rifles. The MD suffers from an incredibly low ammo count, even with skills. Sitting on a hive will only get you so far with it. Given that height is premium for any MD range is not, MD must/should flee when presented with a dedicated opponent at longer range, there is just no reliable manner to counter this with a MD. Hence the MD spam for tight interior maps. You mean like running a swarm launcher? Cept Heavies can et a sidearm guaranteed vs logi's runnng swarms who would be more screwed. Why make the forge gun a heavy weapon? The highest EHP suit gets the weapon you can 2 shot people from got knows where, oh and wait it was meant to be av so good luck counterplaying it? With Flux's and nano's, a md is crazy good. With flux's you're basically giving a guy a flux nade and a contact locus nade you don't need to cook with a large clip. You 1, 2, or 3 shots all classes after fluxing them if semi accurate. Swarms are a light weapon, so they are anyones KITTEN. They Don't require the slowest suit ingame to fit them, in closed beta i had a scout suit swarm fit, to troll tanks with. The FG has a low ammo count/low clip size, the suit that fits it has no equipment slot, so when you see a FG on a tower, you aren't looking at the work of a single player.... and more often than not, by taking myself out of the battle and finding the best angle to cover the tower from i can force the heavy to abandon their tower 9 times out of 10, getting a kill on them is great, but not necessary. MD is crazy good, but so are most weapon systems when used appropriately. Assault Scrambler Rifle is my current fave :P even if it isn't ideal for armor, most of the time i only have to rip shields to force a retreat. because in a team game, numbers matter.... You justified when I skewered you on your point about not being effective against infantry. I'm ok if it's good against infantry, but not from halfway across the map where an ar doesn't even get falloff damage and the only thing that can hit you is another forge or a sniper...that's good counterplay... You're arguing with me not against me. I agree why not make the Forge a light weapon? If you can fit a plasma cannon... Yout virtually can't one shot a forger so he comes out, drops someone with an assault forge, and then steps back into cover...NOT UNLIKE A MASS DRIVER! I don't know of any weapon that doesn't benefit from cover, possibly with the exception of a HMG or laser, but even then the Soldier needs cover every now and then. like i posted above, my inference being that i am in fact not a troll unless you are :P
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 196	Posted - 2013.07.31 08:47:00 - [12] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: I'm giving reasons you aren't contesting...it's like carrying both contact locus nades and flux nades. and then spamming them...one hit killing everything unless you're on level ground in open terrain, then it takes skill assuming you're at range. A lot of skill. i see no difference, between using your analogy on the MD than using it on Swarms. Apart from the obvious fact that swarms only affect tanks and that tanks are almost never popular with infantry. Yes using the MD proficiently takes skill, using it as a FotM for tight ambush style fights is more akin to Spray an Pray, especially when a red knows to close the gap. Limiting the Clip size or ammo count would in my opinion, nerf the system to near uselessness. I'd much rather see a splash damage nerf (and if possible, a radius increase :P). I'm actually fine with not killing players and instead fighting for position and advantage, something which an area denial/terror weapon is quite handy for.
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 196	Posted - 2013.07.31 09:14:00 - [13] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Oh yeah, so one guy with a mass driver can do the work of guys guys with different nades....cept contact nades only get one and md's get 6...sounds fair? Honestly I've said before I'd love a nade that balanced out to do 130% to shield and 90 or whatever % to armor....provide more choices right? I mentioned in an earlier post I played a match tonight when a guy sat on top of echo on the bridge map and was hitting alpha with impunity...a tac can't hit the top of the building at echo from alpha..read the post before you suggest driving a lav or rushing to get close to get on top and kill him please.... Fluxes and Core locus both come with three. Considering that those two people can wipe out however many people you want to cram into the blast radius of the core locus, complaining about the use of a flux and MD seems needless. It would seem that at least some of the issue stems from the manner in which certain squads role, all jammed together so they can focus fire on their targets. The MD prevents this by forcing squads to spread out. Tactics at its finest. As to the anecdote of the match, why not grab a sniper rifle and dome the guy? If he was sitting up on a roof, he could have been pegged by tank, forge, sniper, or attacked by dropship. With that many counters, it seems a stretch to be complaining. Also, at that range he was not throwing fluxes, so shield tankers would have been needing at least 3 splashes to get through the shields, so it isn't like you couldn't GTFO in time. It was just a tactical error that allowed him to stay up there. He only had impunity because you refuse to do what was obvious to kill him. Thats on you, not him. fairly much "adapt or die" iirc: the breach variant of the MD is a tight radius high damage low RoF, skill level 2 the Assault is a large radius low damage high RoF, skill lv 4 the assault variant was moved from skill lv2 and the breach from skill lv1 when we entered Uprising. (iirc) during chromosome, the "inner radius" for a direct hit was increased, while at the same time splash damage was reduced. There may also have been an increase in splash radius (can't remember tbh). There was an annoying bug during chromosome that made the server and client disagree about projectile behavior, meaning that as high as 1 in every 3 MD rounds would not explode, this was usually the case where any deviation from the horizontal was encountered (at point of contact) This bug was fixed just prior to uprising, seeing an increased use of the MD, but after Uprising was released, a new bug where partially occluded targets were receiving no splash damage rendered the MD defunct. This last bug has been fixed (as far as can be told), and the current upsurge in MD usage should be seen as the community embracing a lost friend. imho: it is no different from chromosome, we had to learn and adapt back then to an increase in MD useage, and now that the weapons splash damage is functioning properly again, will have to learn to adapt again. if it was balanced i hope it is a lowering of splash damage and an increase in splash radius :P tldr:? L2read
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 196	Posted - 2013.07.31 09:36:00 - [14] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: ...Fails to read past relevant post referenced from earlier in the thread...I love ignorant people here. I'm so happy to learn and promote discussion till this happens.... The core you have to cook, the md is a contact grenade, huge difference. And if you read earlier we had this discussion and I even played around with putting all nades to 2 max and only supply depots can resupply them so it stops being grenade spam 514. If that happened and MD's only had 2-3 flux's for the match...then it'd be an area denial weapon, and only forge's would need a slight nerf vs infantry...potentially reducing splash to reward the accurate ones and prevent splash kills from nowhere. I'm not fishing through 9 pages to find a story about why you failed to use any of the many options at your disposal to counter what was obviously a threat. You allowed someone with an area of effect weapon to bombard a point. You had options available, but chose none of them. The FG problem was created by AR users who demanded that the HMG have the range of a baseball and the initial accuracy of an epileptic performing brain surgery with a hammer. You forced them onto the heights, now you want them back on the ground to outrange and massacre. This MD QQ is pretty much the same. You seemingly want to be able to run in a tightly packed squad, focusing your fire on solo enemies with impunity. Because splash weapons counter this horde tactic, it has to go. ...This dude is so dumb I'm going to just lol at the fact you're in Zion and troll you from now on. I have massive respect for discussion, but you're failing at that. everything else aside... because i'm off for dinner, and all that , and yes discussion sometimes needs things ....discussed... but all that aside.. you didnt find "The FG problem was created by AR users who demanded that the HMG have the range of a baseball and the initial accuracy of an epileptic performing brain surgery with a hammer." funny?????? lol'd irl +1
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 196	Posted - 2013.07.31 10:49:00 - [15] - Quote just as an aside: you will never see this character ingame, its just the earliest surviving character i have. I've deleted quite a few.... saying you've never seen a toon ingame and implying that because you have never seen said toon, is basis for discrediting any thing said by that toon... is beyond ludicrous. discussion requires not just spouting opinions or facts.... but listening to the opinions and facts presented by others. the back and forth of this process, informs those participating, allowing for an increased understanding of all facets of the topic discussed. In my opinion, the MD is fine, but if it isnt fine, then its rebalance should look towards adjusting splash damage and radius, down for the former up for the latter. I respecced back into it to learn the newberries flocking to it. And it is rather hilarious the number of them you can get to suicide if you wait and then rush them, when not wielding an MD.