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Phosis Norg
Mad Clone Posse
12
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Posted - 2013.07.30 22:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to some how say this without ranting. Please bear with me.
The healer stands in the line of fire with his weapon down.
He needs shields and extenders.
The assault guys need the regulators to get back in the fight. How did you come up with such an exchange?
My friend said you were nerfing Caldari Logi's because some people were abusing them. Well I picked that path and skilled up to proto based on the specs you offered. No, I wasn't abusing it. I thought I was following a course of action that you promoted with the bonuses you offered.
Now, the first thought is, I'm not giving up shields to accommodate the CPU nerfing. So I'm giving up healing equipment to avoid it.
How can you make the assault guys tougher and the guys who, by nature of job have to run into fire, squishy?
Also, if you don't want logi's doing assault, how is it you gave a side arm to the Amarr logis?
It's just so arbitrary. Once again, it seems incredibly unfair that you let somebody work hard to skill into something and then just simply say, "oh, we've changed our minds, sux to be you". |
Bittersteel the Bastard
WarRavens League of Infamy
18
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Posted - 2013.07.30 22:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Amarr Logis are supposed to be the logi-assault role.
Several other things: No one should be able to run into the line of fire unscathed. Even heavies have to use cover to their advantage. There is very little reason to run into the line of fire anyways. Reviving someone in the line of fire is dumb. Running into the line of fire to rep someone is also dumb. Stick behind cover, throw down hives, and repair anyone that has not overextended themselves and gotten themselves screwed.
Besides you don't need to give up shield tanking. Just give up your proto weapons for equipment or use some CPU or PG mods like everyone else. |
Phosis Norg
Mad Clone Posse
12
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 23:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bittersteel the Bastard wrote:Amarr Logis are supposed to be the logi-assault role.
Several other things: No one should be able to run into the line of fire unscathed. Even heavies have to use cover to their advantage. There is very little reason to run into the line of fire anyways. Reviving someone in the line of fire is dumb. Running into the line of fire to rep someone is also dumb. Stick behind cover, throw down hives, and repair anyone that has not overextended themselves and gotten themselves screwed.
Besides you don't need to give up shield tanking. Just give up your proto weapons for equipment or use some CPU or PG mods like everyone else.
I have enhanced CPU extensions. In order to increase suit CPU to level 5, it's 777,000 SPs. I traded my Douvolles for GEK-38s.
You say this as if it's OK with you. You realize the CPU nerf was over 40 at the Proto Level?
Do you really think it's OK that I skilled into Proto weapons and now, it should not be an issue to me, to throw them away?
I'm betting you are NOT a Caldari Logi. You would not see this as an OK thing to do.
I was making a point as far as being in the line of fire. Of course you do NOT stand in direct fire, but the nature of the job is to be exposed, with your weapon down, in an area, that just seconds before had enough heat to take down your team mate. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
430
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 23:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
They gave you the reg bonus cause they expected logis to take some damage and then duck to rep themselves and their allies.
Drop the whole "Logis need more HP so they can heal" BS.
Logis need less health so dickheads don't abuse the higher HP and fitting allocations for full proto tank.
Bottom line, logis are the hiders, the ones who stay behind cover and make sure the squad survives the engagement.
Not the fellows leading the charge and fighting the bad guys.
Get your roles straight bro. |
Bittersteel the Bastard
WarRavens League of Infamy
20
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Posted - 2013.07.30 23:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Phosis Norg wrote:Bittersteel the Bastard wrote:Amarr Logis are supposed to be the logi-assault role.
Several other things: No one should be able to run into the line of fire unscathed. Even heavies have to use cover to their advantage. There is very little reason to run into the line of fire anyways. Reviving someone in the line of fire is dumb. Running into the line of fire to rep someone is also dumb. Stick behind cover, throw down hives, and repair anyone that has not overextended themselves and gotten themselves screwed.
Besides you don't need to give up shield tanking. Just give up your proto weapons for equipment or use some CPU or PG mods like everyone else. I have enhanced CPU extensions. In order to increase suit CPU to level 5, it's 777,000 SPs. I traded my Douvolles for GEK-38s. You say this as if it's OK with you. You realize the CPU nerf was over 40 at the Proto Level? Do you really think it's OK that I skilled into Proto weapons and now, it should not be an issue to me, to throw them away? I'm betting you are NOT a Caldari Logi. You would not see this as an OK thing to do. I was making a point as far as being in the line of fire. Of course you do NOT stand in direct fire, but the nature of the job is to be exposed, with your weapon down, in an area, that just seconds before had enough heat to take down your team mate.
Do I expect you to "throw away" your proto gear? No, I expect people like you to QQ about a reasonable nerf which puts you in the role intended for the suit. the LOGISTICS suit. I also expect you to drop all your equipment so you can tank and run your proto weapons like the rest of the QQing Callogis.
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Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet Top Men.
178
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 23:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's just another kid whining because he spec'd into the FOTM and didn't expect it to get nerfed.
You choose to play a CCP game, you choose to be exposed to CCP nerfs. Stop acting like you've not had a decade to get used to it. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
432
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Posted - 2013.07.31 00:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
This thread is now about Blueberry cake.
Its like blueberry muffins, only BETTER! |
Sgt Buttscratch
G I A N T EoN.
571
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 00:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
The only way I could justify them returning the stats back to pre 1.3, would be to change primary weapon to a side arm only. |
Demon Buddah
The Phoenix Federation
44
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 00:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Healers aren't supposed to stand in the line of fire, they stand behind and rep the others. If someone goes down, clear out some enemies and revive. If you chose to have a logi suit, then be a logi. Don't worry about your weapon, you only use that if you have to. You're equipment is what matters.
The fact that you trained into the suit, knowing it was OP makes that your fault. It's a resonable nerf by the looks of it. Logis are now logis. LIKE IT SHOULD BE! For future references, if something is OP don't train for it. |
Phantom Vaxer
The Generals EoN.
68
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Posted - 2013.07.31 00:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lets see...Logis aren't meant to run into fire like a dumbass. If you wanna play support you play support not try-hard "Im gonna be the hero to save you". Supports in many games are not suppose to be tanky at all. They usually get higher recovery than others or recover on their own so they don't have to rely on another while they heal the fighters. Assaults are suppose to push with moderate health, lethality, and speed. So Cal-Logis getting regulator bonuses makes sense as now they can start their shield regen even quicker. Logis, if you're playing as a support role are suppose to hang back behind the assaults while popping their own shots now and then but primarily making sure he's using his equipment advantage.
Now in Dust the philosophy is that you can create any fit you want, but there are tradeoffs. The Cal-Logi pre-nerf was a Cal-Assault with the bonus of extra equipment at the cost of your sidearm. So the Cal-Logi was made just as good as an assault suit that can hold its own and support with too few drawbacks.
If you're complaining that you're role as support is hampered because you're squishy then you're not playing support right. Now you can make Logi suits into assault suits still but they are not gonna measure up to true assault suits fitted right. |
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ALPHA DECRIPTER
M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
179
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Posted - 2013.07.31 01:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Demon Buddah wrote:Healers aren't supposed to stand in the line of fire, they stand behind and rep the others. If someone goes down, clear out some enemies and revive. If you chose to have a logi suit, then be a logi. Don't worry about your weapon, you only use that if you have to. You're equipment is what matters.
The fact that you trained into the suit, knowing it was OP makes that your fault. It's a resonable nerf by the looks of it. Logis are now logis. LIKE IT SHOULD BE! For future references, if something is OP don't train for it.
Got a point but just because something is OP doesn't mean that he chose the suit BECAUSE it's OP. Although heavies have to use cover, they tend to get reckless and run out in a blaze of bullets. The pre 1.3 callogi was able to hang with the heavies as they did there thing as most players, me + every sniper ever, will actually target the medic healing the juggernaut before attacking the behemoth directly as this put him at a disadvantage of having no reps/support. Heavies are also the go-to when infiltrating a building so keeping him alive would mean the difference between a take over and getting cloned.
Don't think I'm just another QQ callogi as I'm actually a G-Scout that specializes in uplinks and hacking which puts me at a disadvantage vs ANYBODY. I just like to see things from other players perspectives instead of just my own (without sympathy, how can one judge?)
Keep in mind that I'm speaking for the True bros in general as apposed to a single person. @OP As mentioned earlier, would you be happy with the original specs but replace your primary with a sidearm? Most logis that spec into meds feel that the only reason they use a weapon is because it is required for a valid fitting.
`Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST . |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
297
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 01:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:This thread is now about Blueberry cake.
Its like blueberry muffins, only BETTER!
Bullshit; chocolate all the way |
Dj grammer
Red Star. EoN.
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 01:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
The 5 R's of a logistics role Razz Repair Rally Reinforce Resupply
Look at this guide of how to be a good logistics role made by a gentlemen who took his time out to make it. It's worth it, trust me.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
874
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 01:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Funny thing they're going to be adding gear-bonuses soon which means most of the Logi's will be losing some of the bonuses they have now. It'll push them even further to be what they're SUPPOSED to be which is support roles, and non-combat. The reason they even have a gun in the first place is solely for self defense with the Amarr Logi being the exception by trading a gear slot of the sidearm.
I'm a vehicle guy but I run a Level 1 SVER Logi suit with an exile. I keep a positive KDR, heal, support my team, and usually go positive. With no infantry skills I literally have the lowest HP medium frame in the game, but I use cover and avoid fighting directly and still fulfill my role as a Logi.
Upset about wasting your skill training on the Duvolle? You're still getting the benefit from AR Operation and Proficiency even with the Gek. Plus as I said, you're a support role, your weapon should really not be a total priority. Upset about having to use CPU extenders? You have more module slots than any other suit in the game.
TL;DR?
Get over it, suit is working as intended.
Source: I run Caldari Assault/Logi on my alt. Suit went from ridiculous to reasonable. |
ALPHA DECRIPTER
M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
179
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 01:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
Checked that out on my first day in the forums. A good read for aspiring bros I must admit. It almost made me switch specs...almost. Instead I decided to branch into logis later on.
`Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST . |
Lightning Bolt2
DUST University Ivy League
79
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 01:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Phosis Norg wrote:Bittersteel the Bastard wrote:Amarr Logis are supposed to be the logi-assault role.
Several other things: No one should be able to run into the line of fire unscathed. Even heavies have to use cover to their advantage. There is very little reason to run into the line of fire anyways. Reviving someone in the line of fire is dumb. Running into the line of fire to rep someone is also dumb. Stick behind cover, throw down hives, and repair anyone that has not overextended themselves and gotten themselves screwed.
Besides you don't need to give up shield tanking. Just give up your proto weapons for equipment or use some CPU or PG mods like everyone else. I have enhanced CPU extensions. In order to increase suit CPU to level 5, it's 777,000 SPs. I traded my Douvolles for GEK-38s. You say this as if it's OK with you. You realize the CPU nerf was over 40 at the Proto Level? Do you really think it's OK that I skilled into Proto weapons and now, it should not be an issue to me, to throw them away? I'm betting you are NOT a Caldari Logi. You would not see this as an OK thing to do. I was making a point as far as being in the line of fire. Of course you do NOT stand in direct fire, but the nature of the job is to be exposed, with your weapon down, in an area, that just seconds before had enough heat to take down your team mate.
lol? do you know how hard it is 2 fit a scout?
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ALPHA DECRIPTER
M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
179
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 01:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lightning Bolt2 wrote:lol? do you know how hard it is 2 fit a scout?
lol I had to make a whole road map in order to see what I could fit on my adv scout b4 actually working on it... so much work gonna be spent figuring out how I'm gonna fit it at proto level. |
GET ATMESON
Robbing The Hood
87
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 02:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Phosis Norg wrote:I would like to some how say this without ranting. Please bear with me.
The healer stands in the line of fire with his weapon down.
He needs shields and extenders.
The assault guys need the regulators to get back in the fight. How did you come up with such an exchange?
My friend said you were nerfing Caldari Logi's because some people were abusing them. Well I picked that path and skilled up to proto based on the specs you offered. No, I wasn't abusing it. I thought I was following a course of action that you promoted with the bonuses you offered.
Now, the first thought is, I'm not giving up shields to accommodate the CPU nerfing. So I'm giving up healing equipment to avoid it.
How can you make the assault guys tougher and the guys who, by nature of job have to run into fire, squishy?
Also, if you don't want logi's doing assault, how is it you gave a side arm to the Amarr logis?
It's just so arbitrary. Once again, it seems incredibly unfair that you let somebody work hard to skill into something and then just simply say, "oh, we've changed our minds, sux to be you".
Dont QQ because the all power shield tanker logy was nerfed. Now your down to everyone else. Caldari logys are meds. DONT RUN INTO FIRE. Your cant do that. Need CPU use a CPU module. i'm happy that the assault logy that had more HP then a normal assault suit was hit with a little nerf. Dont QQ look at the suit you were using. It was going to happen. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
427
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 02:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Phosis Norg wrote: The healer stands in the line of fire with his weapon down.
If you're standing in the line of fire as ANY logi you're doing it wrong, unless you're killing the guy faster than you're getting killed. This is why repair tools are ranged. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
434
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 03:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:This thread is now about Blueberry cake.
Its like blueberry muffins, only BETTER! Bullshit; chocolate all the way Have you eaten Blueberry cake (Unfrosted, Mind you) with Whiped cream on top?
Wanna know that Definition of Dessert? |
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KING CHECKMATE
Seraphim Auxiliaries
431
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 04:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Phosis Norg wrote:I would like to some how say this without ranting. Please bear with me.
The healer stands in the line of fire with his weapon down.
He needs shields and extenders.
The assault guys need the regulators to get back in the fight. How did you come up with such an exchange?
My friend said you were nerfing Caldari Logi's because some people were abusing them. Well I picked that path and skilled up to proto based on the specs you offered. No, I wasn't abusing it. I thought I was following a course of action that you promoted with the bonuses you offered.
Now, the first thought is, I'm not giving up shields to accommodate the CPU nerfing. So I'm giving up healing equipment to avoid it.
How can you make the assault guys tougher and the guys who, by nature of job have to run into fire, squishy?
Also, if you don't want logi's doing assault, how is it you gave a side arm to the Amarr logis?
It's just so arbitrary. Once again, it seems incredibly unfair that you let somebody work hard to skill into something and then just simply say, "oh, we've changed our minds, sux to be you".
I would have sympathy if it wasnt the cal proto logi. I mean, c'mon, no one will admit abusing it and yet everybody used it because they knew it was op as sh**, same as flaylocks...
the Cal logi still has the perk that at proto level is the only suit with 9 slots, 4 of them LOW powered, meaning you CAN use one of them to increase the CPU or PG as needed.
Sorry, but if you are looking for sympathy, i cannot deliver. Sucks to be you, but sure you and other cal logi/assault players were not complaining when they got shot full clips and didnt die....
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RA Drahcir
Psygod9 RISE of LEGION
45
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Posted - 2013.07.31 04:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
you really should be thanking all the people that abused your precious callogi; they are the ones that brought this nerf upon you. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
874
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 01:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
RA Drahcir wrote:you really should be thanking all the people that abused your precious callogi; they are the ones that brought this nerf upon you.
It's not even "abuse", it's people who intentionally specced into a suit which was clearly overpowered, and then complaining when CCP fixes it. I avoided that suit on my main specifically because I knew the nerf hammer would be incoming eventually. |
843 nerfnut96
BurgezzE.T.F
33
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 04:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
First of let me say i'm glad you did something about the caldari logi suit it was overpowered, and i say this even though i use it, i'm not even whining and asking for a respec, i made my choice and i'll live with it . But let me ask you why you did it how you did, the passive buff to shield extenders is what made us so hard to take down, so you take that away, fine, but then you also take away 40 CPU, are you kidding me? You took away a lot of our HP then made it so we have a hard time even fitting our main HP devices on our suits, i don't understand that, a double nerf...
I would also like to point out one of my biggest problems with this change. no its not the reduction to CPU (yes it sucks) or the shield skill being changed (yes it sucks). it is the new shield recharge delays, yes the assaults had a longer recharge delay than the logis but they also had a passive skill increasing the recharge rate, now the logis are SOL and all we got is a 5% bonus to shield regulators per level, at complex regulators and level 5 cal logi thats a whopping 30% reduction to our recharge delay, plus it takes a low slot which are now in short supply as i now have to use two CPU mods (1 complex and one standard) and a PG mod just to fit my LOGI GEAR ON MY LOGI SUIT, and thats without even having a grenade on my suit.
Also for all who i'm sure will ask my dropsuit engineering is level 3 and electronics is 5. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
466
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 05:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
843 nerfnut96 wrote:First of let me say i'm glad you did something about the caldari logi suit it was overpowered, and i say this even though i use it, i'm not even whining and asking for a respec, i made my choice and i'll live with it . But let me ask you why you did it how you did, the passive buff to shield extenders is what made us so hard to take down, so you take that away, fine, but then you also take away 40 CPU, are you kidding me? You took away a lot of our HP then made it so we have a hard time even fitting our main HP devices on our suits, i don't understand that, a double nerf...
I would also like to point out one of my biggest problems with this change. no its not the reduction to CPU (yes it sucks) or the shield skill being changed (yes it sucks). it is the new shield recharge delays, yes the assaults had a longer recharge delay than the logis but they also had a passive skill increasing the recharge rate, now the logis are SOL and all we got is a 5% bonus to shield regulators per level, at complex regulators and level 5 cal logi thats a whopping 30% reduction to our recharge delay, plus it takes a low slot which are now in short supply as i now have to use two CPU mods (1 complex and one standard) and a PG mod just to fit my LOGI GEAR ON MY LOGI SUIT, and thats without even having a grenade on my suit.
Also for all who i'm sure will ask my dropsuit engineering is level 3 and electronics is 5. Everybody else needs one of those.
Said by many other folk, welcome to life as any other suit. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1457
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 06:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
The passive nerf was needed, though I think just lowering it would've been fine? At any rate, while a CPU nerf sort of makes sense in the context of the C-Logi having more slots than any other suit in the game... I think they might've overdone it somewhat. I thought the initial quoted CPU nerf would be the value skimmed off the PRO suit. The actual set of hits to CPU was much much larger of course. It's shocking really.
I'm not sure if that's balanced exactly. Amarr = lower PG, Caldari = lower CPU, Minmatar/Gallente = ... completely normal?
Honestly, it makes me think more suit changes are coming, and this was just the start. It's sort of like the secondary weapon skills were altered... but only for the Flaylock. In the thread about that, they used the Swarm Launcher specifically as the weapon whose secondary skills they'd like to change. It seems like a lot changes have yet to come. Hide yo wife' |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
64
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Honestly if you're Cal Logi don't come to the forums expecting any type of reasonable or rational discussion of this nerf. You'll be vastly disappointed.
Just take your logi suit, adapt it as necessary, and continue causing other people to QQ about being beaten by it. |
Phosis Norg
Mad Clone Posse
14
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 15:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Funny thing they're going to be adding gear-bonuses soon which means most of the Logi's will be losing some of the bonuses they have now. It'll push them even further to be what they're SUPPOSED to be which is support roles, and non-combat. The reason they even have a gun in the first place is solely for self defense with the Amarr Logi being the exception by trading a gear slot of the sidearm.
I'm a vehicle guy but I run a Level 1 SVER Logi suit with an exile. I keep a positive KDR, heal, support my team, and usually go positive. With no infantry skills I literally have the lowest HP medium frame in the game, but I use cover and avoid fighting directly and still fulfill my role as a Logi.
Upset about wasting your skill training on the Duvolle? You're still getting the benefit from AR Operation and Proficiency even with the Gek. Plus as I said, you're a support role, your weapon should really not be a total priority. Upset about having to use CPU extenders? You have more module slots than any other suit in the game.
TL;DR?
Get over it, suit is working as intended.
Source: I run Caldari Assault/Logi on my alt. Suit went from ridiculous to reasonable.
I see so many jumping on the band wagon. I really don't understand, but that would be obvious. The thing is, everybody talks about different things like weapons. Nobody is explaining how/why I would have 5 high power slots and 4 low power slots but I'm not supposed to use them. I don't understand, truly.
Prior to the nerf, my goal was to increase my nanocircuitry to advanced to get better nanos and an better healing injector. But nobody is addressing, in all these comments, the over 43 CPU nerf.
I look at improving my nanocircuitry (my true Logi role), and it keep coming back to the same conclusion, if I spend SPs on the next level of nanocircuitry, or rep tool, I can't add them to the suit. This nerf would not be so agregious if they would have lowered the cpu requirements of the Logi equipment.
If you read most of the comments here, it is almost like a shark feeding frenzy. But no real understanding or offering of solutions. Just attacks. Instead of the attacks, you should lobby for the Logi to have more ability to heal, not to be forced into only the assault or sniper role. |
Phosis Norg
Mad Clone Posse
14
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 15:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:RA Drahcir wrote:you really should be thanking all the people that abused your precious callogi; they are the ones that brought this nerf upon you. It's not even "abuse", it's people who intentionally specced into a suit which was clearly overpowered, and then complaining when CCP fixes it. I avoided that suit on my main specifically because I knew the nerf hammer would be incoming eventually.
As I played my Logi role, I had no idea of what other's did with the suit. You said it's over powered and you knew to avoid it.
So I feel stupid. But how did you know? I looked at what was happening after beta, and the bonuses on the Cal Logi looked like the best Logi to take.
I don't know about the nerf hammer. I'm just a player and I trust that the dev's follow through with what they offer in the specs.
Now I have learned a hard lesson. You also mentioned the fellow logi's that abused the suit. How does one discover this? I mean I just did my job, as I thought I was supposed to. I could never see some other logi NOT doing what they were supposed to with their suit. I'm just busy, not paying attention to what others are doing. It's kind of a weird concept.
In fact, how did people come to the conclusion that the suit was over powered? Was it just numbers?
If everyone is right that it's OP. Then fine, take away the role, or the shields, but do you understand what taking away the shields plus the CPU did? It made it impossible to add advanced or proto equipment for healing. The suit has been changed from a powerful healing tool, to an overpowered sniper suit. It's good for carrying low level nanos and stacking shields, that's about it. |
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