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Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
546
   |
Posted - 2013.07.29 23:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why not both?
Tomorrow I'll have 3mil SP spent on a suit that really isn't that close to what I chose and which I never would have picked if I knew these were the changes they had in mind. I built my entire character around that suit and could justifiably ask for all my SP back, but all I want is the SP I spent on that suit. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
546
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 23:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:Why not both?
Tomorrow I'll have 3mil SP spent on a suit that really isn't that close to what I chose and which I never would have picked if I knew these were the changes they had in mind. I built my entire character around that suit and could justifiably ask for all my SP back, but all I want is the SP I spent on that suit. I'm assuming you're talking about Callogi, in which case it's your fault for skilling into OP ****.
It's your fault for NOT skilling into it. And the OP factor primarily came from stacking 4 or 5 complex shield extenders (coupled with the racial bonus) and then 2-4 of some sort of armor module and going GOD MODE. I never did that. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
546
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 23:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:Why not both?
Tomorrow I'll have 3mil SP spent on a suit that really isn't that close to what I chose and which I never would have picked if I knew these were the changes they had in mind. I built my entire character around that suit and could justifiably ask for all my SP back, but all I want is the SP I spent on that suit. I'm assuming you're talking about Callogi, in which case it's your fault for skilling into OP ****. It's your fault for NOT skilling into it. And the OP factor primarily came from stacking 5 complex shield extenders (coupled with the racial bonus) and then 4 of some sort of armor module and going GOD MODE. I never did that. You know, even after the nerf, CaLogi is still one of the best logis right? It's just not going to be a suit that can do everything. Put some SP into equipment if you haven't and enjoy the suit.
It's not really that good. The removal of the racial bonus will impact some people a fair bit. The shield delay will impact everyone moderately and the large CPU nerf is going to impact everyone who uses the suit dramatically.
I have 18 million SP, 16 of which was used for that suit and with that suit in mind. That's the current (as in pre-1.3) suit, not the nerfed one. The new changes will impact how I'll play the class/role/spec significantly and I think it warrants a refund of the SP I spent on the suit.
Back when I originally decided to go with Caldari it was a really close call between that and Minmitar. Most of the reasons I picked the Caldari over the Minmitar are going away now. I didn't choose this 1.3 Caldari suit and never would have if these new numbers were the original ones. We aren't talking about 300k SP I can grind in a week. This is 3 million SP wasted on a suit I didn't pick and don't want. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
546
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 23:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
If this nerf wasn't announced and mentioned months ago, I'd agree that it would warrant a respec. But even Stevie Wonder could see this coming a mile away. Also, you still got 5 highs, and 4 lows. Just use one of those lows for a CPU enhancer. It's not the end of the world and it sure as hell hasn't been nerfed down to vehicle standards.
1. CCP never said the caldari logi was being nerfed. They said there were going to be adjustments to logi suits. For all we know, they were going to buff the other logi suits. Unlikely, but it's CCP, so anything is possible.
2. I already use a CPU extender. An enhanced one. I haven't bothered to check the math, but with level 5 in the dropsuit CPU skill and a complex CPU extender, I might get close to recovering the loss of the CPU. The problem is that's another 800k SP that could have spent elsewhere and I never would have had to spend because I wouldn't have picked this suit in the first place. Then you add in the moderate increase in shield depleted delay time on a very shield-reliant suit, plus the loss of a good racial for a subpar one, and it adds up to a significant change.
3. What about people who don't read the forums? The nerf was only talked about here and not everyone can be bothered to read a bunch of white text. If people did some comparisons in-game they would have seen the Caldari was a powerful suit, and probably would have specced into it. Now you're going to punish them too because of something CCP screwed up? |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
546
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 00:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
1. CaLogi had the highest buffer out of everything. You had to know something was going to change with the suit. Thank god they didn't listen to everyone saying all logis were OP and wanted them limited to sidearms or all that nonsense.
2. Why did you pick the suit? For the survivability? If so, it's still going to have crazy survivability with the regulator bonus. I can't think of any other reason why you're complaining unless you were trying to use the suit as an Assault +1.
3. I'm on your side that we need more in-game news. But everyone complained about the suit. Anyone who didn't used flux grenades or scrambler rifles. Hell, I wasn't bothered by them having such a huge buffer. It could have been toned down a bit to 2% per level, but what do I know? I just play the game.
1. I expected changes to the suit. I expected them to change the racial bonus first and foremost (I agree the racial was overpowered). I figured they might change the shield delay a little, despite it being a shield-reliant suit. Both of those I could accept, though not happily. But both of those and a huge loss of CPU? Come on...I never would have picked this suit if these were the starting numbers and that's really the bottom line.
I just want the SP I spent on the suit back, despite the fact that I spent almost all my SP based on having this suit.
2. I'm still not entirely clear on how the regulator bonus is going to work. Is it going to be 5% per level to efficacy? For example with 1 complex regulator (25%) and level 5 racial, you'd be sitting at around 31.25% efficacy for that one regulator? Or is it going to be an additional 25% added on? In which case it just negates the changes they made to the shield recharge delay (assuming you use a regulator, which if you don't you need to skill into to have a useful bonus).
3. As for people complaining, people complain about a lack of skill used for sniping and AR efficiency at every range just as much if not more since 1.0 hit. Has anything happened to them? I'd accept all the changes except the CPU one. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
546
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 00:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
1. I didn't expect the MD to be nerfed in blast radius and damage, but it happened and I learned to adjust. People still complain about it, so it must be still working. Sometimes you have to count your losses and deal. Trying to get your SP back for something you knew was going to change isn't the right way to go about things though. Also, this is the tip of the iceberg for changes to the entire logistics class.
2. Just like the extender bonus, the regulator and efficacy bonuses are going to stack with the first regulator. Stacking penalty doesn't come into play until the second equipped regulator.
3. People complain about everything, but the CaLogi bonus was game breaking and CCP agreed. Just like the TaC AR which didn't take a bad nerf either. I still see people using them and using them correctly.
1. People complained about the mass drivers all the time in Chromosome. That was back when they could have a potential of like 9.5-11m radius and still do a ton of damage. That nerf was as obvious as any other in this game. Plus the fact that they're still incredibly powerful now and I wouldn't be surprised if you see another nerf down the line (this is coming from someone who uses them).
2. Maybe I'm not being clear. Is the 5% bonus 5% of the module or is it 5% base. As in:
1 complex shield regulator (25%) + Level 5 racial (25%) = 50% total
or is it 25% efficacy (Level 5 Racial) of the 25% base from the module = 25% + 6.25% = 31.25% total
The former just negates the shield delay nerf so that's only a "buff" if you have 2 or more shield regulators (which become less efficient through stacking penalties and percentage of smaller numbers). The latter is just a bad racial bonus.
3. The racial bonus was OP and I admitted that. A lot of us did. The 40 base CPU loss which works out to 50+ with the right skills and even more with the CPU extender modules was too much. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
546
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 01:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
As hard is it is to get a kill vs people on open ground, the MD won't see another nerf since explosions are more consistent. The only reason why it did get the initial ninja nerf was because it became popular in the office. It's still heavily gimped in PC battles. People need to stop basing how powerful something is based on pubs.
It's more like complex regulator 35% (10% efficacy skill) + level 5 racial = 85% total. The second regulator will be diminished from its inital 35%. Not sure about the exact number, but 2 will pretty much cut delay down to more than half.
The racial bonus is 5% per level not 10%, so it would be 60% total if your reading of their language is correct. Guess we'll find out tomorrow.
And MDs are good in PC too, just need to get used to arc/splash so you don't hit your own guys. If you hit an enemy with one good flux it's easy mode. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
547
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 10:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:
I'm afraid your math is still off.
Bonuses are always multiplicative, not additive. That means:
Base*skill*suit
filling the variables we get:
35*1.1*1.25=48,125
For the first ragulator.
That's just over 2.5 seconds for general delay and just over 4 seconds of depleted delay. Still a respectable bonus, considering the delays have been increases on all logis.
That's what I was saying earlier. The bonus isn't 25% added on, it's 25% of the 27.5% (27.5% with the skill bonus too) of the complex shield regulator, which is only 6.875% more.
Which also means your answer is wrong, though your math is technically correct. A complex regulator is 25%, not 35%. Meaning 25 x 1.1 x 1.25 = 34.375%.
It's a bad bonus. We're losing up to 90 or so shields to get a reduction of less than 7% to shield delay, which not everyone even uses and which was nerfed moderately with the patch as well.
Some math:
With 1 complex regulator and 5/5 in racial tier, with the new suit (partial depletion) it's: 34.4% of 5 = 1.72 which means shields will recharge starting 3.28 seconds after being depleted.
With 1 complex regulator and 5/5 in racial tier, with the old suit (partial depletion) it's: 27.5% of 4 = 1.1 which means shields will recharge starting 2.9 seconds after being depleted.
With 1 complex regulator and 5/5 in racial tier, with the new suit (full depletion) it's: 34.4% of 8 = 2.75 which means shields will recharge 5.25 seconds after being completely depleted.
With 1 complex regulator and 5/5 in racial tier, with the old suit (full depletion) it's: 27.5% of 6 = 1.65 which means shields will recharge starting 4.35 seconds after being completed depleted.
This "bonus" only mitigates a certain percentage of the nerf. We're still going to lose all the shields from the previous bonus and still going to have shields depleting at a slower rate, despite being given a bonus that specializes in that. And we're losing 40 base CPU. |
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