DUST Search - Addressing Building-Rooftop Warfare

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

Addressing Building-Rooftop Warfare

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 367	Posted - 2013.08.01 05:48:00 - [1] - Quote The main problem with this tactic is that in some locations it's impossible to counter. Spawning a dropship on some maps is simply too difficult as the forge gunner(s) have a fantastic los on the entire battlefield. Try spawning it further away? Then the same forge gunner just has more time to take you down. I think Bojo said it best with: GÇ£Snipers>everythingGÇ¥ because right now there is only a very slim chance you'll be able to take out that dedicated sniper with your militia fit. Snipers should be worried about being found by ground troops and you can see currently that they are not. Almost all snipers I ever come across sit in one spot until they die. The bottom line: Adding more map dynamics is a fantastic way to add variety and spice to this currently bland tactic.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 369	Posted - 2013.08.01 11:46:00 - [2] - Quote Timothy Reaper wrote: Very few escaped the concentrated proto sniper fire. There is the flaw in your argument. You were using proto snipers and still didn't manage to annihilate everybody? The point is that this is in the interest of balancing the weapon against everything, not just between snipers without nerfing the gun. Ground troops should always be able to counter a sniper or even a whole team because they can access the sniper on foot IRL. Sniper on the roof? Get a team inside the building and clear him out from below is what I would do. Any wise sniper would cover his exits and know his exits, which is why I hate sniping in Dust, it just doesn't have good tactics to it like in Battlefield (being a sniper/DM myself). As it stands, if I want to take out a sniper, I have to be a sniper. I don't like sniping in Dust and I haven't specced a significant portion of my 11 million SP into them. It's completely ludicrous to suggest that I should in this kind of game.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 371	Posted - 2013.08.02 05:19:00 - [3] - Quote Timothy Reaper wrote: RINON114 wrote: You were using proto snipers and still didn't manage to annihilate everybody? You're saying that we should be able to take out prototype heavy suits - which are specifically designed to soak up massive amounts of damage - with one or two shots? While that sounds like it could be fun, it wouldn't be fair to the heavys. Those that survived on the tower were the ones who would pop up, fire a random shot and duck back into cover (and not all of them escaped). Those who tried to help the team by staying still long enough to aim were dropped quickly. Two people from one squad managed to ruin (what has been called in this thread) a near unbeatable strategy. People keep saying things like, 'what I would do.' As a wise man once said: "There is no 'I' in 'team'!" Part of a good team-based game is specialities; if you're not good at a particular task, find someone who is. If you try to do everything yourself of course you're not going to have fun. So I should probably repeat myself then: You were using proto snipers, what chance would my entire team have if they're just militia, or not in my squad? Neutralizing a sniper isn't always about using a sniper against him. It's about getting the tactical advantage through using his biggest weakness against him (range). This is the advantage snipers currently have with no downside, a downside which should be there. As for the GÇ£that's what I would doGÇ¥ I should clarify that I meant as a squad, as in GÇ£that is the tactic I would employ with my squad, or a tactic I would tell my squad to useGÇ¥ not that I would rambo up there at all.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 371	Posted - 2013.08.02 08:29:00 - [4] - Quote Jathniel wrote: lol This thread is loaded with a lot of "killing tower and rooftop snipers/forge gunners" is too hard. If a sniper can't fight you in CQC, it's "tough luck, that is a sniper's weakness and i'm entitled to exploit it". Yet when you can't fight a sniper in CQC it's all of a sudden, "it's not fair that i can't reach him. that is imbalanced. i should be able to exploit his weakness, and he shouldn't be able to exploit mine." Fk that selfish, hypocritical nonsense, disguised as logic. Snipers already got 'nerfed' by the damage profile changes. It's also much easier to get to the top of towers now in Uprising. Also, you can orbital tower tops now!! WOW! FFS.... This is precisely the kind of BS feedback I wish CCP would ignore. And this is precisely the type of negative criticism of ideas I've come to expect from the users of this forum, but alas, I'm still here. You simply can't say this isn't logical. If a sniper is sitting on a mountain, can we not run behind or around to take them out on foot? To point out once more the flaw in the arguments of those against this idea: Calling a dropship when there are forge gunners up top is nigh impossible on some maps, completely impossible on others. If the sniper gets caught in CQC then he should be at the disadvantage, same as if a soldier gets caught out in the open the sniper should have the advantage. If a soldier is good enough to get into CQC with a sniper without dying then that soldier did a good job at avoiding detection and staying alive. All we're asking is for a way for everything to counter everything like it should be, and currently the only way to counter a sniper is to be a sniper. My tactics shouldn't be limited by my skills or skill levels, only my creativity and wit. What you're saying is similar to: Only a tank should be able to take out a tank.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 371	Posted - 2013.08.02 13:58:00 - [5] - Quote Jathniel wrote: RINON114 wrote: Jathniel wrote: lol This thread is loaded with a lot of "killing tower and rooftop snipers/forge gunners" is too hard. If a sniper can't fight you in CQC, it's "tough luck, that is a sniper's weakness and i'm entitled to exploit it". Yet when you can't fight a sniper in CQC it's all of a sudden, "it's not fair that i can't reach him. that is imbalanced. i should be able to exploit his weakness, and he shouldn't be able to exploit mine." Fk that selfish, hypocritical nonsense, disguised as logic. Snipers already got 'nerfed' by the damage profile changes. It's also much easier to get to the top of towers now in Uprising. Also, you can orbital tower tops now!! WOW! FFS.... This is precisely the kind of BS feedback I wish CCP would ignore. And this is precisely the type of negative criticism of ideas I've come to expect from the users of this forum, but alas, I'm still here. You simply can't say this isn't logical. If a sniper is sitting on a mountain, can we not run behind or around to take them out on foot? To point out once more the flaw in the arguments of those against this idea: Calling a dropship when there are forge gunners up top is nigh impossible on some maps, completely impossible on others. If the sniper gets caught in CQC then he should be at the disadvantage, same as if a soldier gets caught out in the open the sniper should have the advantage. If a soldier is good enough to get into CQC with a sniper without dying then that soldier did a good job at avoiding detection and staying alive. All we're asking is for a way for everything to counter everything like it should be, and currently the only way to counter a sniper is to be a sniper. My tactics shouldn't be limited by my skills or skill levels, only my creativity and wit. What you're saying is similar to: Only a tank should be able to take out a tank. There is bound to be negative reaction to this thread and it's topic, and I am happy that you expect it, and don't take it personally. That is precisely the level of forum warrior I've come to expect from those that brave the Feedback/Requests section of these forums. I agree when you say that both assaultman and sniper have their disadvantages and advantages and they should be at each other's mercy if the circumstances permit. All too often, the circumstances do NOT permit the sniper to exploit the weakness of the assaultman, and this is true for good reason. If sniping could be done with absolute ease and perfection on every map, it would cancel the existence of the assaultman. (Example: Replication-era and Chromosome-era Manus' Peak.) However, the advantage of the assaultman is his ability to flank and CQC. Therefore, if you make being an assaultman something that can be done with absolute ease and perfection on every map (by adding stairs and ladders to every high point), it would cancel the existence of the sniper. Just as you have sniper teams elite enough to totally lock down a tower; you have assault teams that are elite enough to totally lock down every point accessible by ladder and stair. Let another role exist. Not every sniper and forge gunner is an Overwatch sniper and forge gunner. Sorry but you've just proved my point. A whole sniper team can hold down a tower. Think about that tower for a minute - how did the snipers get up there? I bet they didn't rappel from a helicopter onto the roof. If they did, I think all buildings in existence have roof access and they should in the future. It shouldn't be the case the one sniper and one forge gunner can lock down a tower, but that they need to cover their weaknesses by packing good sidearms or bringing good soldiers to cover the stairs. Right now they don't need ths soldiers, but for you to take them out you need the snipers. That is not balanced. I will reiterate the defining point: Snipers can only be trumped by snipers. This is not balance.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 373	Posted - 2013.08.03 00:40:00 - [6] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: RINON114 wrote: I will reiterate the defining point: Snipers can only be trumped by snipers. This is not balance. The same can be said for many things in this game. Right now it's a very broken version of 'rock paper scissors'. A true counter to something should never be itself. Exactly, this is precisely why we have tactics and we no longer march at each other on open battlefields with no cover. The defining tactic to neutralizing a sniper's effectiveness is to take away his range by getting closer.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 373	Posted - 2013.08.03 04:38:00 - [7] - Quote Beeeees wrote: Someone said something about how everything is supposed to counter everything. Please keep your homogenous CODpulp out, thank you. This again is not an issue of unbeatable tactics. Its an issue of tactics being unbeatable by non-tactics. How in the f-¦ck could you even be so massively self entitled to a right of beating others in their game? The bunch-o-protos on the roof ruin your day? Ruin theirs. They managed to get a tactical advantage, then manage to keep the tactical advantage. Do something about it. If you cant kill them, make them bleed. There is a whole coordinated squad on the rooftop, guess what counters a well coordinated team on a rooftop? A well coordinated drop on said rooftop. A well coordinated countersniping measure. A well coordinated heavy ordinance bombardement. Notice a pattern there? The "well coordinated" part is what you-¦re looking for. You got sh!t gear? Put on your face paint, soldier, you get to try way harder than them. Been there done that. You got sh!t tactics? Tough f-¦cking luck, bite the pillow since you refuse to learn and adapt. You are the reason pubstomping happens. Do not expect the game to win itself for you, especially not against other players. Especially not those who are better than you. You're missing the point... If some enemy guy starts using a tactic, would you be a lazy ass and just use the same one? That is lazy as hell. Sure it works in some situations, like countersniping is a valid tactic but it should not be the endgame to the tactics of getting rid of a sniper. My point in a nutshell: - How many ways are there to kill a tank? - How many ways to kill a dropship? - How many ways to kill an assault soldier? Now answer this: - How many ways are there to kill a sniper? Good luck finding more ways to kill a sniper than any one of the first.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 373	Posted - 2013.08.03 06:34:00 - [8] - Quote Beeeees wrote: RINON114 wrote: Now answer this: - How many ways are there to kill a sniper? 1. Countersnipe 2. Forgegun to the face 3. Plasma Cannon to the teeth. 4. Fly-by. 5. Zerg-drop 6. Railsniping. 7. Rocket barrage 8. Orbital Bombardement. You want me to continue? Please do, considering none of those other than OB and counter sniping actually work in practice: - Good luck getting a forge gun or plasma cannon to hit anyone on top of a tower. - Good luck getting the elevation required to rail snipe. - Same for rocket barrage. A fly by can and has worked before for counter snipers, but a forge gun can take out your flying, noisy pinata before it can even be dropped, so tactics four and five don't count. This is about addressing both problems at the same time, not just about addressing snipers.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 373	Posted - 2013.08.03 10:21:00 - [9] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Captain Wontubulous wrote: As a sniper, these rooftops with a drop uplink on them are a feeding frenzy for me. Unless I'm against a team I don't take seriously at all, I won't go on top of those rooftops. One good sniper can clear these rooftops off or at the very least keep them pinned down. Trying to say you have to have ground access to these rooftops would be like saying you have to make snipers have a viable kill option in CQC like quick scoping. Give me an instakill melee with the butt of my sniper and I'll support your idea. Exactly. One broken idea begets another broken idea. At this rate, sniper rifles will have to work exactly as they do in Battlefield 3 to be viable options.... No sway, super fast semi-auto fire, and an ACOG scope. lmao imagine a Thale's with an ACOG scope... jeez... and they cry about imbalance when the sniper rifle is being used properly? lol What are you both on? Give me a single building in existence that has no ground access. This whole thread is about making snipers worry about being hit in the back, like they should be.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 384	Posted - 2013.08.05 06:56:00 - [10] - Quote FLAYLOCK Steve wrote: RINON114 wrote: Jathniel wrote: RINON114 wrote: Jathniel wrote: lol This thread is loaded with a lot of "killing tower and rooftop snipers/forge gunners" is too hard. If a sniper can't fight you in CQC, it's "tough luck, that is a sniper's weakness and i'm entitled to exploit it". Yet when you can't fight a sniper in CQC it's all of a sudden, "it's not fair that i can't reach him. that is imbalanced. i should be able to exploit his weakness, and he shouldn't be able to exploit mine." Fk that selfish, hypocritical nonsense, disguised as logic. Snipers already got 'nerfed' by the damage profile changes. It's also much easier to get to the top of towers now in Uprising. Also, you can orbital tower tops now!! WOW! FFS.... This is precisely the kind of BS feedback I wish CCP would ignore. And this is precisely the type of negative criticism of ideas I've come to expect from the users of this forum, but alas, I'm still here. You simply can't say this isn't logical. If a sniper is sitting on a mountain, can we not run behind or around to take them out on foot? To point out once more the flaw in the arguments of those against this idea: Calling a dropship when there are forge gunners up top is nigh impossible on some maps, completely impossible on others. If the sniper gets caught in CQC then he should be at the disadvantage, same as if a soldier gets caught out in the open the sniper should have the advantage. If a soldier is good enough to get into CQC with a sniper without dying then that soldier did a good job at avoiding detection and staying alive. All we're asking is for a way for everything to counter everything like it should be, and currently the only way to counter a sniper is to be a sniper. My tactics shouldn't be limited by my skills or skill levels, only my creativity and wit. What you're saying is similar to: Only a tank should be able to take out a tank. There is bound to be negative reaction to this thread and it's topic, and I am happy that you expect it, and don't take it personally. That is precisely the level of forum warrior I've come to expect from those that brave the Feedback/Requests section of these forums. I agree when you say that both assaultman and sniper have their disadvantages and advantages and they should be at each other's mercy if the circumstances permit. All too often, the circumstances do NOT permit the sniper to exploit the weakness of the assaultman, and this is true for good reason. If sniping could be done with absolute ease and perfection on every map, it would cancel the existence of the assaultman. (Example: Replication-era and Chromosome-era Manus' Peak.) However, the advantage of the assaultman is his ability to flank and CQC. Therefore, if you make being an assaultman something that can be done with absolute ease and perfection on every map (by adding stairs and ladders to every high point), it would cancel the existence of the sniper. Just as you have sniper teams elite enough to totally lock down a tower; you have assault teams that are elite enough to totally lock down every point accessible by ladder and stair. Let another role exist. Not every sniper and forge gunner is an Overwatch sniper and forge gunner. Sorry but you've just proved my point. A whole sniper team can hold down a tower. Think about that tower for a minute - how did the snipers get up there? I bet they didn't rappel from a helicopter onto the roof. If they did, I think all buildings in existence have roof access and they should in the future. It shouldn't be the case the one sniper and one forge gunner can lock down a tower, but that they need to cover their weaknesses by packing good sidearms or bringing good soldiers to cover the stairs. Right now they don't need ths soldiers, but for you to take them out you need the snipers. That is not balanced. I will reiterate the defining point: Snipers can only be trumped by snipers. This is not balance. How is sniper vs sniper not balanced lol camping or not how isn't it balanced? Seriously re-read what you said. Read it out loud and listen to how dumb this post is . If I'm a sniper and I'm far as hell hidden or camping. I wouldn't want to be taken out by any other gun than a sniper. Because it's the only gun that can take you out from that far besides the forge gun. This is exactly the point... Sniper vs Sniper = Balanced Sniper vs Anything else = Not balanced Snipers can't be killed by anything other than snipers if they're sitting on these rooftops (other than OB or another dropship). A sniper should be constantly aware of his surroundings, checking for enemy troops sneaking up behind them and also aware of other snipers. If you remove the fact a sniper should be aware of his surroundings then you're supporting easy mode. I have been playing as a sniper in every FPS that I can and in every single one you should shoot and relocate or at least keep moving. In Dust I don't need to, I just pull out my stool (nanohive) and sit my ass in one spot for the whole match. Snipers should be forced to have a downside like everything else does, being situationally aware of your own backside is the perfect downside.

RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 386	Posted - 2013.08.05 09:47:00 - [11] - Quote Beeeees wrote: Let me give you a tip brosikis. Tip of your lifetime. Assuming there is a whole squad up on a roof . Assuming they are well coordinated. You know what that means? It means there is one less capable squad on the ground. Let the thought sink in. One less capable squad on the ground means its time to play ball. The enemy team willingly traded its focused offensive power for unfocused defensive power. It takes say 2 long range capable players at worst to keep that roof in check. This makes room for a total of 4 people more on your team able to take and/or hold points. This is an enormous tradeoff. Use your brain, cease the opportunity to zerg and ninja the objectives. Play ball. Fantastic advice, hace you thought of adapting it into a film? The title should be: GÇ£Tactics that only work in PCGÇ¥ You need a whole coordinated team for that tactic to be effective, and the points still stand: - Rooftop snipers can only be taken out by other snipers. - No building in existence has rooftop exclusive access.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 388	Posted - 2013.08.05 13:38:00 - [12] - Quote Timothy Reaper wrote: RINON114 wrote: GÇ£Tactics that only work in PCGÇ¥ Timothy Reaper wrote: Line Harvest, Domination: An enemy squad placed uplinks on the N.E. tower and spawned with some proto forge guns. While the rest of the our team handled the ground troops, another sniper and I (located on the ground) shot anyone who poked their head out on the tower. Very few escaped the concentrated proto sniper fire. Line Harvest, Skirmish: The enemy team and I had set uplinks on opposing towers (East-West). The enemy spawned in a few snipers and called in a tank. I was able to handle the snipers and keep the tank's attention focused on me, so a couple of others from my squad called in a dropship on the ground, flew up behind the tower, hopped out, destroyed the tank and cleared out the uplinks. In one match a while back I was the only sniper in our squad when the enemy set up on a Line Harvest map tower. I was using an advanced tactical rifle and having trouble punching through their shields and armor before they could duck into cover to rep. So I told my team and our forge gunner (who was on the ground) turned his weapon towards them and started blasting the enemy off the tower anytime they tried to leave cover. Plus I myself have been blasted off the towers by ground-dwelling forge guns many times. All of these happened in public matches. It can work in pubs but that doesn't mean this is what happens often. I don't see why you're still ignoring my two main points: - Rooftop snipers can only be taken out by other snipers. - No building in existence has rooftop exclusive access. Argue against that instead of the easily defeated point and I might give you a cookie, with a 1% chance of salvaging Bacon. Edit: Might I also clarify that I have recently started using this tactic because of this discussion, and although it's always fun to kill unsuspecting targets, it would be a lot better if I had to worry about someone shooting back.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 389	Posted - 2013.08.05 15:06:00 - [13] - Quote Timothy Reaper wrote: RINON114 wrote: - Rooftop snipers can only be taken out by other snipers. Dropship, passengers jumping out of a dropship, forge gun and Precition Strike. RINON114 wrote: - No building in existence has rooftop exclusive access. My house doesn't have a ladder built on the side or roof access from the inside. The place where I work doesn't either, and it's a two story building. RINON114 wrote: Edit: Might I also clarify that I have recently started using this tactic because of this discussion, and although it's always fun to kill unsuspecting targets, it would be a lot better if I had to worry about someone shooting back. You haven't played against me. I'll take the main point of rooftop access here and say: I said exclusive. As in, no building in existence can only be accessed from the roof. What we have now is akin to having the front entrance to a 25 storey building on the 25th floor.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 389	Posted - 2013.08.06 02:12:00 - [14] - Quote Timothy Reaper wrote: RINON114 wrote: I'll take the main point of rooftop access here and say: I said exclusive. As in, no building in existence can only be accessed from the roof. What we have now is akin to having the front entrance to a 25 storey building on the 25th floor. I thought the "problem" was people getting on top of the buildings, not inside. You do understand English right? Read it again... Slowly. How about this is you want to be pedantic, what we have now is even more ridiculous than what I suggested anyway: Buildings in Dust are like having rooftop only access to work, where you have to get a helicopter to get to main entrance on the 25th floor, but when you get there, there is no entrance so you have to work on the roof. And the building is made of solid concrete. And the only way down is to call your helicopter or jump.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 390	Posted - 2013.08.06 06:37:00 - [15] - Quote FLAYLOCK Steve wrote: RINON114 wrote: Jathniel wrote: lol This thread is loaded with a lot of "killing tower and rooftop snipers/forge gunners" is too hard. If a sniper can't fight you in CQC, it's "tough luck, that is a sniper's weakness and i'm entitled to exploit it". Yet when you can't fight a sniper in CQC it's all of a sudden, "it's not fair that i can't reach him. that is imbalanced. i should be able to exploit his weakness, and he shouldn't be able to exploit mine." Fk that selfish, hypocritical nonsense, disguised as logic. Snipers already got 'nerfed' by the damage profile changes. It's also much easier to get to the top of towers now in Uprising. Also, you can orbital tower tops now!! WOW! FFS.... This is precisely the kind of BS feedback I wish CCP would ignore. And this is precisely the type of negative criticism of ideas I've come to expect from the users of this forum, but alas, I'm still here. You simply can't say this isn't logical. If a sniper is sitting on a mountain, can we not run behind or around to take them out on foot? To point out once more the flaw in the arguments of those against this idea: Calling a dropship when there are forge gunners up top is nigh impossible on some maps, completely impossible on others. If the sniper gets caught in CQC then he should be at the disadvantage, same as if a soldier gets caught out in the open the sniper should have the advantage. If a soldier is good enough to get into CQC with a sniper without dying then that soldier did a good job at avoiding detection and staying alive. All we're asking is for a way for everything to counter everything like it should be, and currently the only way to counter a sniper is to be a sniper. My tactics shouldn't be limited by my skills or skill levels, only my creativity and wit. What you're saying is similar to: Only a tank should be able to take out a tank. Only a tank should be able to take out a tank? Well there goes all our av gear lol. Please refrain from posting anymore sir Put down that eighteenth jar of moonshine and read it again. I am saying that anybody arguing against this point is saying that you should only ever be bested by somebody running the exact same gear. Imagine, if you will... - Tanks can only be killed by tanks - AR's can only take on other AR's. - Laser rifles can only take out other laser rifle users. - Forge guns beat forge guns exclusively. - Mass drivers can only kill you if you're holding a mass driver. - Snipers can only kill other snipersOHSNAP!!! There should be a way for players to outwit each other, not just outgun them.