DUST Search - suggestion for cloaking device

Maken Tosch wrote:

Source:
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/equipment-is-your-friend/

Quote:

The second item is a Cloaking Field. This sneaky bit of kit will not only make you (almost) invisible to other combatants, it will also blind turret AI targeting systems. It isnGÇÖt perfect invisibility, scanners will still pick you up if you havenGÇÖt masked your signal well enough, motion will disrupt the field to some extent and weapon fire will cause the field to shut down. This means it will take some skill to use to its maximum potential. This item is going to be a real game changer, particularly for Scout dropsuits which have been screaming out for stealth gear.

The important bit to remember is that it seems that cloaking will probably be borrowed from the Halo mechanics in which movement would disrupt the cloak based on how much you move/sprint and you can still be scanned down by someone who is paying attention to their surroundings.

Cloaking won't be abused as long as the fitting requirements are balanced and only covert-ops specialist suits benefit from this the most while non-specialist suits suffer some penalties.

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ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 152	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:05:00 - [1] - Quote cloaking device: don't make it equipment. if you make it equipment we all know what will happen. everyone in dust will fit one and it will be abused. my suggestion is like the commando suit make a second scout variant but with a cloaking device pre installed into the suits equipment slot. lets call it "covert dropsuit" this can be overridden by fitting other equipt but why would you want to. this then ensures the device cant be abused.
Terry Webber Turalyon Plus 280	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:08:00 - [2] - Quote Or you can make only scouts be able to use it.
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 892	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:14:00 - [3] - Quote I imagine them having significant drawbacks for all suits except scouts (or later even cov ops) like massive CPU requirements, reduced movement/ aiming speed and such. If done right we might still see them used on other suits (which i would prefer, honestly) but without completely breaking the game.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 152	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:15:00 - [4] - Quote Terry Webber wrote: Or you can make only scouts be able to use it. there isn't a single thing in dust that can only be fit to a certain suit/vehicle. there probably isn't a mechanic which would allow it or i'm sure they would have done it by now with certain modules
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3491	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:17:00 - [5] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Terry Webber wrote: Or you can make only scouts be able to use it. there isn't a single thing in dust that can only be fit to a certain suit/vehicle. there probably isn't a mechanic which would allow it or i'm sure they would have done it by now with certain modules HMG and Forge----------------------->>>>>> ONLY ON HEAVY
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 152	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:19:00 - [6] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: I imagine them having significant drawbacks for all suits except scouts (or later even cov ops) like massive CPU requirements, reduced movement/ aiming speed and such. If done right we might still see them used on other suits (which i would prefer, honestly) but without completely breaking the game. when has ccp implemented something they expect not to be abused because its deemed too weak or not very effective and it has backfired. the only way to avoid it is to ensure it only goes 1 place alone i.e on a new suit which if its the scout cant be heavily abused with heavy dps or heavy tank. if its pre loaded then the suit can be specificly balanced around it and not balanced to be effective for all suits
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 892	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:20:00 - [7] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Terry Webber wrote: Or you can make only scouts be able to use it. there isn't a single thing in dust that can only be fit to a certain suit/vehicle. there probably isn't a mechanic which would allow it or i'm sure they would have done it by now with certain modules HMG and Forge----------------------->>>>>> ONLY ON HEAVY That's technically a whole class of suits. Every suit that has a heavy weapon slot can fit HMGs. There just happens to be only one suit that has one right now.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 3491	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:21:00 - [8] - Quote Source: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/equipment-is-your-friend/ Quote: The second item is a Cloaking Field. This sneaky bit of kit will not only make you (almost) invisible to other combatants, it will also blind turret AI targeting systems. It isnGÇÖt perfect invisibility, scanners will still pick you up if you havenGÇÖt masked your signal well enough, motion will disrupt the field to some extent and weapon fire will cause the field to shut down. This means it will take some skill to use to its maximum potential. This item is going to be a real game changer, particularly for Scout dropsuits which have been screaming out for stealth gear. The important bit to remember is that it seems that cloaking will probably be borrowed from the Halo mechanics in which movement would disrupt the cloak based on how much you move/sprint and you can still be scanned down by someone who is paying attention to their surroundings. Cloaking won't be abused as long as the fitting requirements are balanced and only covert-ops specialist suits benefit from this the most while non-specialist suits suffer some penalties.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 152	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:25:00 - [9] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Terry Webber wrote: Or you can make only scouts be able to use it. there isn't a single thing in dust that can only be fit to a certain suit/vehicle. there probably isn't a mechanic which would allow it or i'm sure they would have done it by now with certain modules HMG and Forge----------------------->>>>>> ONLY ON HEAVY its a heavy weapon and only heavy suits have a heavy weapon slot. the restriction is not on the module. its on the suits fitting arrangement. if i took what you say and converted it for a cloaking module then suits would have to have a cloaking module slot specificly for that module of which no suits have.
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 892	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:25:00 - [10] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: I imagine them having significant drawbacks for all suits except scouts (or later even cov ops) like massive CPU requirements, reduced movement/ aiming speed and such. If done right we might still see them used on other suits (which i would prefer, honestly) but without completely breaking the game. when has ccp implemented something they expect not to be abused because its deemed too weak or not very effective and it has backfired. the only way to avoid it is to ensure it only goes 1 place alone i.e on a new suit which if its the scout cant be heavily abused with heavy dps or heavy tank. if its pre loaded then the suit can be specificly balanced around it and not balanced to be effective for all suits Imagine a 75% movement speed penalty for non scout suits. That heavy is going nowhere. Now imagine this penalty has to wear off for, say, ten seconds after deactivation (which could be triggered by weapon firing). He will get a powerfull element of surprise but he is also dead meat if the guy he ambushed successfully is not alone. The numbers are arbitrary of course. My point is that it's possible to balance this and i'd rather CCP tries to do it than to go the easy way and make creative fits with cloaking impossible.
LongLostLust Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 97	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:29:00 - [11] - Quote Planetside does a good job with it. Don't reinvent the wheel. Only allow it on scouts!!
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 152	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:31:00 - [12] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Source: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/equipment-is-your-friend/ Quote: The second item is a Cloaking Field. This sneaky bit of kit will not only make you (almost) invisible to other combatants, it will also blind turret AI targeting systems. It isnGÇÖt perfect invisibility, scanners will still pick you up if you havenGÇÖt masked your signal well enough, motion will disrupt the field to some extent and weapon fire will cause the field to shut down. This means it will take some skill to use to its maximum potential. This item is going to be a real game changer, particularly for Scout dropsuits which have been screaming out for stealth gear. The important bit to remember is that it seems that cloaking will probably be borrowed from the Halo mechanics in which movement would disrupt the cloak based on how much you move/sprint and you can still be scanned down by someone who is paying attention to their surroundings. Cloaking won't be abused as long as the fitting requirements are balanced and only covert-ops specialist suits benefit from this the most while non-specialist suits suffer some penalties. you cannot stop abuse by "balancing" pg and cpu as some suits have more than others. you just have to look at how cal logi suits are currently abused to know this module cannot be balanced by current balancing methods. imagine if heavy weapons could fit on any suit if you had the pg/cpu. now put a cloaking device into the same senario
Xender17 Intrepidus XI EoN. 393	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:32:00 - [13] - Quote Terry Webber wrote: Or you can make only scouts be able to use it. How about independent/dependent types. Dependent(Equipment; non-scout): Cloaks a certain radius and any object touching it. Fire reduces the time left by 10%. Introduce PG bar. Shows how much time/PG is left. Independent (Module) Requires a certain profile. (Scouts are better at it) Activated like a vehicle module. Can take 50 damage before it deactivates. Appears miragey/fizzely when you move. Auto deactivates when you use any non melee attack. Lasting time and invisibility depends on variant/level.
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 892	Posted - 2013.07.28 21:40:00 - [14] - Quote Xender17 wrote: Terry Webber wrote: Or you can make only scouts be able to use it. How about independent/dependent types. Dependent(Equipment; non-scout): Cloaks a certain radius and any object touching it. Fire reduces the time left by 10%. Introduce PG bar. Shows how much time/PG is left. Independent (Module) Requires a certain profile. (Scouts are better at it) Activated like a vehicle module. Can take 50 damage before it deactivates. Appears miragey/fizzely when you move. Auto deactivates when you use any non melee attack. Lasting time and invisibility depends on variant/level. That's pretty much how eve does it. There's the standard cloak with sharp penalties that can be used by anyone hellbent on doing it and there's a specialized version that has better functionality but is limited to the cov ops/ blockade runner range of ships.
Smooth Assassin Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.07.28 22:19:00 - [15] - Quote Terry Webber wrote: Or you can make only scouts be able to use it. Thats a bit too OP. Scouts are fast the fastest dropsuit in the game and for them to be cloaked as well as fast is OP
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 152	Posted - 2013.07.28 22:34:00 - [16] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Terry Webber wrote: Or you can make only scouts be able to use it. Thats a bit too OP. Scouts are fast the fastest dropsuit in the game and for them to be cloaked as well as fast is OP hence the new suit specificly designed around the module
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 892	Posted - 2013.07.28 22:52:00 - [17] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Smooth Assassin wrote: Terry Webber wrote: Or you can make only scouts be able to use it. Thats a bit too OP. Scouts are fast the fastest dropsuit in the game and for them to be cloaked as well as fast is OP hence the new suit specificly designed around the module But this ignores that the cloaking mechanic itself can have (and by the looks of it will have) built in limitations and that the modules can have specific requirements to make them hard to fit on non scouts. That prevents them from being abusable just as well. And just to be clear about the terms we use. The mere fact that a logi or scout could use a cloak if he wanted to does not make it "abuse". Being so powerfull that a cloaked logi or scout is always better than a non cloaked logi or scout would enable "abuse". This kind of abuse can be prevented through sound game mechanics and stats without having to limit cloaking to only one class that is specifically designed with cloaking in mind. It does the same thing, just the other way around and allows cloaking to be an option for everyone.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 101	Posted - 2013.07.28 23:51:00 - [18] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Terry Webber wrote: Or you can make only scouts be able to use it. Thats a bit too OP. Scouts are fast the fastest dropsuit in the game and for them to be cloaked as well as fast is OP Scouts are grossly under powered, with the only means of making points is trying to act like an assault suit. This is perfectly fair for the scout suit, the sentiment given here seems to derive from the medium suits who seem afraid of losing their unmatched status in all things relevant.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 405	Posted - 2013.07.29 00:36:00 - [19] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: cloaking device: don't make it equipment. if you make it equipment we all know what will happen. everyone in dust will fit one and it will be abused. my suggestion is like the commando suit make a second scout variant but with a cloaking device pre installed into the suits equipment slot. lets call it "covert dropsuit" this can be overridden by fitting other equipt but why would you want to. this then ensures the device cant be abused. It won't be abused if it has a long cool down, shortish active time, and a huge amount of CPU and PG so they have to sacrifice a good chunk of tank to use it.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization 51	Posted - 2013.07.29 00:39:00 - [20] - Quote they also should become more visible if they move...
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 405	Posted - 2013.07.29 00:46:00 - [21] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: they also should become more visible if they move... Yeah, like active camp from Halo (OMG, I made a reference to another game right! And one that maintains thousands of diehard fans, even after its been sold and driven into the ground.)
Gaelon Thrace DUST University Ivy League 86	Posted - 2013.07.29 01:23:00 - [22] - Quote Suits other than Scouts will be less likely to use it simply because other equipment will be more useful to them (theoretically). Logis will probably use it because they have multiple equipment slots, but other classes aren't likely to use it unless it actually proves more utilitarian than the available alternatives. Again, this seems unlikely for Assaults, Sentinels, and Commandos because their primary function is to shoot stuff, or in the Sentinel's case be a bullet sponge, which causes the cloak to drop completely. It just doesn't seem likely to me that cloaking will be more useful than any other equipment outside of Scout and Logi suits. Then again, my only experience is with the Scout suit so I could be horrendously mistaken. It could be that I'm not familiar enough with the other suits to predict the nonstandard functions the cloak could serve.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy 437	Posted - 2013.07.29 02:49:00 - [23] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Thats a bit too OP. Scouts are fast the fastest dropsuit in the game and for them to be cloaked as well as fast is OP Doubtful. Scouts have been UP since Uprising 1.0. Uprising 1.2 worsened Scout imbalance, and 1.4 promises to slide Scouts even further down the UP scale. That's a whole lot of UP ground to cover. A built-in cloak for all Scouts would be a good start, IMO. Should such a buff afford Scouts too great an edge, it can always be undone. CCP giveth, and CCP taketh away. Ask the Cal Logis.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1388	Posted - 2013.07.29 02:59:00 - [24] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: I imagine them having significant drawbacks for all suits except scouts (or later even cov ops) like massive CPU requirements, reduced movement/ aiming speed and such. If done right we might still see them used on other suits (which i would prefer, honestly) but without completely breaking the game. This is how I'd do it. You could give all scout suits a 50%/75% reduction to fitting on cloak equipment (10%/15% per rank). So, a high tier PRO suit that isn't scout with CPU/PG upgrades could fit a low tier cloak equipment module.
Lightning Bolt2 DUST University Ivy League 79	Posted - 2013.07.29 03:39:00 - [25] - Quote Haven't read past the OP. ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: cloaking device: don't make it equipment. if you make it equipment we all know what will happen. everyone in dust will fit one and it will be abused. my suggestion is like the commando suit make a second scout variant but with a cloaking device pre installed into the suits equipment slot. lets call it "covert dropsuit" this can be overridden by fitting other equipt but why would you want to. this then ensures the device cant be abused. there is a HUGE problem here, the scouts DESCRIPTION says that it is built for cloaking so basicly CCP needs to add a extra module slot on scouts. AND I'LL QUIT THE GAME IF WE NEED TO SPECIALIZE IN A SUIT TO GET A MODULE WE SHOULD ALREADY HAVE!!!!!... and I'm really addicted to this so it'll be hard but I will... I'll just buy skyrim and forget about dust. [EDIT] and if it comes to equipment i'll just speed tank a mimitar logi, carrry RE PM and cloak, with shotgun and i'll be 2X as effective as a scout AT IT'S OWN JOB!!! besides, a medium suit with 4 lows or more can speed tank better than a scout anyways because the core stats on scouts are HORRIBLE.(primarily BASE SPEED, walking and sprinting, also stamina.)

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