DUST Search - Map Questions (with -LOTS- of references...)

CCP LogicLoop wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Interesting. I notice there's a lot of talk about static meshes and I'm just spit balling here as I honestly have very little experience with the matter but is there any way to reduce the LOD view distance on static meshes associated with the interior of the outposts? There's really not much difference until we're -WAY- out there (like, sniper rifle ranges) at which point the engine probably isn't rendering character models to begin with (450m is the maximum, so far as I know, though I have a screenshot of a 527m headshot using an ancient chinese secret). I know Simplygon is a wondrous tool when messing with Static Meshes/LOD but I'm not very familiar with the Unreal Engine. Again, just spit balling.

Edit: Actually, when you say performance are you talking performance on the client or...?

This would be a performance topic that a Technical Artist or Environment Artist would be more familiar with. From my own understanding though, we are at about the balance we need for LOD ranges. With potential for a bit more tweaking. I wouldn't expect any huge changes in that area.

Overall performance. But largely on the client. We are rendering a large highly detailed terrain, thousands and thousands of models, hundreds and hundreds of animations, particle effects, etc etc. Their is a lot being rendered.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2231	Posted - 2013.07.28 07:56:00 - [1] - Quote Alright so this has been plaguing me for a while now but here it goes... Basically, it's obvious that the screenshots for Dust 514 are heavily doctored. I even saw one screen shot of a Caldari Assault holding a Laser Rifle that shot bullets. No idea what was going on there but yeah, it's an example. These are the important bits, because they all share commonalities.... http://www.gamematics.net/wp-content/uploads/E3_DUST514_06.jpg http://media-titanium.cursecdn.com/attachments/41/878/e3_dust514_07.jpg http://www.gamedynamo.com/images/galleries/photo/1701/dust-514-mercenary-pack-screenshots-6.jpg http://i1-games.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/Dust-514-E3-2012-Beta-Gameplay-Trailer_4.jpg So to start we'll begin with the one that's been driving me INSANE for almost a year now. 1.) Where the -hell- is this map? http://photofunnypicture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Dust-514-Desktop-Background.jpg This thing was like the prize fighter of CCP's screenshot collection for a good long time and it was -EVERYWHERE-. The E3 trailer, the screenshots, the concept art, hell you can see this damned thing everywhere you look - including EVERY SINGLE SCREEN SHOT I LISTED, just look in the background. I don't mean to sound angry or condescending but it seems a little bizarre to show this in virtually every single screenshot for a six month time span just to never introduce it..! I take that back, it was introduced at one point -a long long time ago- but it was only in the Line Harvest map and you couldn't actually go there, you could see it from the map if you zoomed out far enough (can't do that anymore as there's a cap to how far you can zoom out). Speaking of Line Harvest... 2.) Why do some maps have little or no interchangeable sockets? Line Harvest, Ashland and Manus Peak are amazing examples of this. While Manus Peak might not be as bad (Alpha gets old pretty quick when it's the same thing over and over) Line Harvest and Ashland -never change at all-. At least, the playable areas. The only things that change in Line Harvest are the two sockets up north, one being a ground spawn and the other being... Nothing. There is another socket in the south as the ground spawn but let's be real here, unless you're Red Line, Line Harvest is going to be same game over and over. This brings me to another point.. http://www.gamedynamo.com/images/galleries/photo/1701/dust-514-mercenary-pack-screenshots-6.jpg Here you can see that Charlie and Delta have been replaced by the large overhanging structure that usually dominates those two points (orbital proof, no less). It's not much of a change but it's just enough to add some kind of variety - unfortunately, this isn't live and we're seemingly stuck with the same bland boring Line Harvest we always had. Which is interesting to me because I could have sword that same structure -WAS- a socket used in the other maps. Even more bizarre is that Spine Crescent has the -exact same issue- in that these two sockets seem to be permanently latched to Delta and Echo, but in this next screen that's not the case. http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Dust-514-Uprising-5.jpeg 3.) Missing Sockets and Objects? Here's an example of a socket that somehow phased out of existence entirely at some point, but even then I don't remember seeing it during Skirmish 1.0 back in 2012 Beta... I remember a turret being there... http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-luGKfZ5aQac/TxXRIsOI-YI/AAAAAAAAB5E/1cICBdbCiHY/s1600/dust+514+screen+dissection+3.jpg And this oddity of an object which has appeared in several screens, looking like some kind of Radar Dish attached to an Installation base.. http://www.gamematics.net/wp-content/uploads/E3_DUST514_06.jpg http://media-titanium.cursecdn.com/attachments/41/878/e3_dust514_07.jpg No idea what happened to these things but I don't th...
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2231	Posted - 2013.07.28 07:58:00 - [2] - Quote Adding another question because it just occurred to me... 5.) Speaking of sockets, why are they so far apart? There's a good 100-200m trek between sockets but they're all interchangeable so what are the stipulations between putting them closer together? I think it'd be pretty interesting to see how that would play out, honestly.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2237	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:39:00 - [3] - Quote CCP LogicLoop wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: I'm quite positive I've never seen the "Consolidation Matrix" in either of the slots across from each other on the bridge. The Trapezoidal-sided buildings that are "C" and "D" on Line Harvest are the only buildings that have ever filled those sockets on either side of the "bridge". Just your luck of the draw then on the random socket loads. The Matrix is set up to be used in that battleground. In fact when we initially started using that battleground, the consolidation matrix was the first set of sockets we used internally on a regular basis for that testing. Thank you for answering my questions though Logic, very disappointed to see the map concept in my first question be retired. In regards to the quote, perhaps it's a bug then because those trapezoidal-sided buildings (I'll go ahead and call them 'Warehouses' since they're often packed with trucks/cargo containers) are literally the ONLY sockets in Spine Crescent and that's not an isolated case. I've played every day since Uprising came out in May and I have never once seen anything different than the Warehouses dominating Delta and Echo. See here: http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/64572/1/desert_at_dusk_940.jpg On another topic, has there been any thought to changing Manus Peak / Line Harvest to being more variable? I'm sure the static meshes are going to be hell to get around but honestly it would do a lot of good as the northern team usually has a distinct advantage with those warehouses covering the objectives as they really are orbital proof. Infantry/tanks can use them as cover and once they're dug in they're almost impossible to get out. Northern team wins probably 75% of the time. As far as the little 'Spire' socket that was part of Crater Lake, it can also be seen in this screenshot on the right: http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/63970/1/gallente_havs_940.jpg If you'd permit, I have one more question to add: 6.) With higher player counts at some point in the future, any thought to linking maps/districts together? We see something akin to this in the E3 2012 video at the 1:45 mark where the camera races across Line Harvest to another area that's connected to the Orbital Artillery outpost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN58mesUkkY
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2238	Posted - 2013.07.29 07:25:00 - [4] - Quote CCP LogicLoop wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: If you'd permit, I have one more question to add: 6.) With higher player counts at some point in the future, any thought to linking maps/districts together? We see something akin to this in the E3 2012 video at the 1:45 mark where the camera races across Line Harvest to another area that's connected to the Orbital Artillery outpost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN58mesUkkY This video is around the transition of skirmish 1.0 to skirmish 2.0. At one time this is how that battlefield / gameplay area was set up. The MCC would travel to and dock with large socket at that location. When moving to skirmish 2.0 we removed that large socket back there (not to mention it was also a killer on performance with all the hand placed static meshes everywhere). Interesting. I notice there's a lot of talk about static meshes and I'm just spit balling here as I honestly have very little experience with the matter but is there any way to reduce the LOD view distance on static meshes associated with the interior of the outposts? There's really not much difference until we're -WAY- out there (like, sniper rifle ranges) at which point the engine probably isn't rendering character models to begin with (450m is the maximum, so far as I know, though I have a screenshot of a 527m headshot using an ancient chinese secret). I know Simplygon is a wondrous tool when messing with Static Meshes/LOD but I'm not very familiar with the Unreal Engine. Again, just spit balling. Edit: Actually, when you say performance are you talking performance on the client or...?
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2242	Posted - 2013.07.29 10:11:00 - [5] - Quote Doyle Reese wrote: CCP LogicLoop wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: If you'd permit, I have one more question to add: 6.) With higher player counts at some point in the future, any thought to linking maps/districts together? We see something akin to this in the E3 2012 video at the 1:45 mark where the camera races across Line Harvest to another area that's connected to the Orbital Artillery outpost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN58mesUkkY This video is around the transition of skirmish 1.0 to skirmish 2.0. At one time this is how that battlefield / gameplay area was set up. The MCC would travel to and dock with large socket at that location. When moving to skirmish 2.0 we removed that large socket back there (not to mention it was also a killer on performance with all the hand placed static meshes everywhere). Will we ever see something similar to this concept again? Perhaps on a map without the static meshes? Static meshes are any object in the game that doesn't have animations - basically every crate, wall and solid structure that isn't an installation. The reason they're important to Dust 514 is that they're easier to render than normal 3D models.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2251	Posted - 2013.07.30 03:13:00 - [6] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: CCP LogicLoop wrote: On the topic of the Consolidation Matrix. After looking into it, I found out it was pulled out of the mix due to performance reasons. It has to go through an optimization pass. I expressed the sockets popularity and that level design will help all we can to get this back in there as soon as possible. Are there any other sockets intended to show up there? Since it's err... trapezoid-warehouse specific on Spine Crescent right now, but it's meant to be adjustable. Are there other sockets of that "size" intended to show up there at some point in the future? I seem to recall a more varied arrray showing up including that "trapezoid-warehouse" on Manus Peak in the 'B' position for instance. This would suggest to me that those are similar-sized sockets. However, Spine Crescent always has the trapezoid-warehouse socket as-is (at points D and E). The larger socket used for B and C actually changes. Table top, skyscraper building(s), consolidation matrix, warehouse, the circle-fin thingy that has the elevated position in the center... There's a bunch of 'medium' sockets that work well with Manus Peak that I think would go remarkably in that position - I mean hell if the Consolidation Matrix can fit than I'm sure anything besides an Outpost can fit. Consolidation Matrix is pretty big.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2251	Posted - 2013.07.30 03:16:00 - [7] - Quote CCP LogicLoop wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Interesting. I notice there's a lot of talk about static meshes and I'm just spit balling here as I honestly have very little experience with the matter but is there any way to reduce the LOD view distance on static meshes associated with the interior of the outposts? There's really not much difference until we're -WAY- out there (like, sniper rifle ranges) at which point the engine probably isn't rendering character models to begin with (450m is the maximum, so far as I know, though I have a screenshot of a 527m headshot using an ancient chinese secret). I know Simplygon is a wondrous tool when messing with Static Meshes/LOD but I'm not very familiar with the Unreal Engine. Again, just spit balling. Edit: Actually, when you say performance are you talking performance on the client or...? This would be a performance topic that a Technical Artist or Environment Artist would be more familiar with. From my own understanding though, we are at about the balance we need for LOD ranges. With potential for a bit more tweaking. I wouldn't expect any huge changes in that area. Overall performance. But largely on the client. We are rendering a large highly detailed terrain, thousands and thousands of models, hundreds and hundreds of animations, particle effects, etc etc. Their is a lot being rendered. Thanks for answering this LogicLoop - best dev evar =P One more thing that's come up you might be able to help with: 7.) Any chance we could have a Map Feedback sub-forum in regards to Medium/Small sockets? Considering we had to tack a makeshift name for the Trapezoid-Warehouse it might be privy to give them some formal titles and provide images so that the playerbase can comment on them
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2399	Posted - 2013.08.08 16:23:00 - [8] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: CCP LogicLoop wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: I'm quite positive I've never seen the "Consolidation Matrix" in either of the slots across from each other on the bridge. The Trapezoidal-sided buildings that are "C" and "D" on Line Harvest are the only buildings that have ever filled those sockets on either side of the "bridge". Just your luck of the draw then on the random socket loads. The Matrix is set up to be used in that battleground. In fact when we initially started using that battleground, the consolidation matrix was the first set of sockets we used internally on a regular basis for that testing. I have never seen the Matrix used in Spine Crescent either. I would like to. That is an interesting socket. Maybe I will get lucky one of these days. Don't think we see Matrix enough at all =P It definitely goes back to the old Manus Peak feeling of an attack coming from anywhere