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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
754
   |
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
DON'T LISTEN TO THE ABUSER!!
BURN THE ABUSERS!!!!
BURN THEM!!!!!!!
HOOC'S AN ABUSER, HE KILLED ME WITH A FLAYLOCK!!!!1!!11!!!eleven!!
Seriously though, they've made their bed, they should be forced to lie in it.
After all, it isn't like there is a Hard SP Cap where they will not be able to buy EVERYTHING eventually.
Look at these "mistakes" as "added value". |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
754
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 20:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
hooc order wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:DON'T LISTEN TO THE ABUSER!!
BURN THE ABUSERS!!!!
BURN THEM!!!!!!!
HOOC'S AN ABUSER, HE KILLED ME WITH A FLAYLOCK!!!!1!!11!!!eleven!!
Seriously though, they've made their bed, they should be forced to lie in it.
After all, it isn't like there is a Hard SP Cap where they will not be able to buy EVERYTHING eventually.
Look at these "mistakes" as "added value". Councilman Iron wolf is saying they will quit....and that this is a good thing. Also it was CCP who made this bed not the players. Note: killing you with a flaylock would be a pretty neat trick as i have never used one.
CCP did not twist their arm while holding a gun to their heads and tell them that they 100% must spec into CalLogi/Flaylock, therefore, it is not CCP's fault.
Note: I wonder how many "witches" burnt through history told everyone that they weren't witches. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
754
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:What about the people who went cal logi/flaylock after the respec?
I know guys who used the flaylock as soon as it hit, same with the caldari logi.
Most of these people are either Minmatar and couldn't wait to get weapons for their suits that matched their chosen race, or Caldari players who played logi last build.
I have never seen my minmatar friend in a caldari suit of any kind, and the caldari guys never use flaylocks.
Edit:so cal logi/flaylock users knew what they were doing, they also knew they would get the suit and weapon nerfed by doing so.
Funny thing that....
I had Flaylock Operation to 5 before we had Flaylocks. When we actually got them and I could actually try them I thought it was a nice idea, though overall, a silly weapon.
When we got our respecs (you know, the LAST respec ever barring catastrophe), I spec'd OUT of Flaylocks for other more practical skills.
How many people used their respec to spec INTO Flaylocks knowing full well that it was a silly OP weapon? |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
754
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
hooc order wrote:gbghg wrote:hooc order wrote:gbghg wrote: A number of people specced those things without realising the advantages they had, but a significant amount of people, a considerable majority specced into them specifically after finding out how OP they are. They obviously did not know "how OP" it was...if they did then there would be no reason to voluntarily give them up. I should also point out there are very few who are disagreeing with the nerfs....and this on friggin the dust forums where everyone complains about everything...and this is without them actually seeing how bad the nerfs will be from a CCP who has a terrible track record with these things. Your attempt to make these players into villains is a logical failure. Give it up. Cool your head. Stop the witchhunt. Everyone agrees with balancing....fine lets balance the game. Punishing players arbitrarily is not about balancing the game. It's not an attempt to make them into villains, there's a segment of those who specced into those things because that was their choice of race, there were those who wanted to spec cal logi because they like caldari tech, they benefitted from an unexpectedly OP set of gear. I can't hate those people, it's just how things turned out. However a significant part of the player base, saw how OP they were, and purposefully set out to spec those things to take advantage of the OP'ness, do you have any other reason for why 90% of the top corps were running those things in PC and pub matches? Yes this is an attempt to make villains out of them. Why do you keep mentioning "they knew"? You want to dehumanize them so you won't feel bad about them being screwed over. Either this is about balancing the game or it isn't. Weather they knew or did not know should have no bearing on balance. Jesus how many ways do i have to write this before it can seep into your thick skull. Furthermore if you did not think this balancing was screwing them over then why do you need to desperately clutch to the claims that "they knew"? Why do you need that crutch to rationalize not giving them a respec?
Maybe because they did?
It is about balancing, they just want to spec out of it because it is no longer going to be OMGWTFPWNBBQ time running dual Flaylocks. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
754
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
hooc order wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:What about the people who went cal logi/flaylock after the respec?
I know guys who used the flaylock as soon as it hit, same with the caldari logi.
Most of these people are either Minmatar and couldn't wait to get weapons for their suits that matched their chosen race, or Caldari players who played logi last build.
I have never seen my minmatar friend in a caldari suit of any kind, and the caldari guys never use flaylocks.
Edit:so cal logi/flaylock users knew what they were doing, they also knew they would get the suit and weapon nerfed by doing so. Funny thing that.... I had Flaylock Operation to 5 before we had Flaylocks. When we actually got them and I could actually try them I thought it was a nice idea, though overall, a silly weapon. When we got our respecs (you know, the LAST respec ever barring catastrophe), I spec'd OUT of Flaylocks for other more practical skills. How many people used their respec to spec INTO Flaylocks knowing full well that it was a silly OP weapon? "Them knowing" is off the table. Quit restating it like it is an argument. This is not rocket science. CCP is attempting to balance the game. They are not out to punish legitimate players who you do not like. Perhaps you want that but it is not a serious argument on how a game should be designed. You guys keep bringing this argument up so i assume it is the reason why you oppose the repec. Now that your argument is off the table you should clearly see that a respec is justified. Games cannot be designed because you are pissed at some player who speced a certain way....If they did not **** you off then you should clearly see how they are being screwed. Otherwise why even bring up the argument. You need to clear your head...quit being angry and out for revenge and start supporting a respec because people are being unjustly screwed over.
IDK about you, but I realize what kind of people New Eden attracts.
Min/Maxing should NOT be rewarded and there was a large majority of them who were simply looking to min/max.
**** 'em. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
754
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
hooc order wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:hooc order wrote:
Yes this is an attempt to make villains out of them. Why do you keep mentioning "they knew"? You want to dehumanize them so you won't feel bad about them being screwed over. Either this is about balancing the game or it isn't. Weather they knew or did not know should have no bearing on balance.
Jesus how many ways do i have to write this before it can seep into your thick skull.
Furthermore if you did not think this balancing was screwing them over then why do you need to desperately clutch to the claims that "they knew"? Why do you need that crutch to rationalize not giving them a respec?
There is no dehumanization. Either they trained what they wanted or trained what they knew was op. Both can end up at the same place, neither needs a respec. They made decisions in a system designed to preserve decisions through balance changes. You just changed your argument....in a matter of a few min. Before you wanted no respec to punish them now you want to "preserve decisions. You moved the goal post. You just lost the argument.
There is nothing stating that those two concepts cannot exist side by side in the same reasoning. If I need to have my decisions preserved, no one else should be allowed a mulligan cause they made bad decisions and thought that they were entitled to an OP weapon in perpetuity. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
754
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:If we had the Amarr heavy flame thrower we could actually burn them to death for their sins... Alass it is missing :/
That would clearly be a minmatar weapon if you ask me. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
755
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 22:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
hooc order wrote:Full Metal Kitten wrote:Hooc, you make good points but you aren't going to change everyone's mind. It's good that you are putting your thoughts out here though. Personally, I downgrade my gear when I fight unorganized teams, and I upgrade against strong resistance. Not enough people do this, and it's why so many matches are one sided stomps. I'm talking pub matches, since I have no PC experience.
The game is boring and frustrating regardless of which side of a stomp you are on. Quote:you aren't going to change everyone's mind. Probably not....but damn it i am here to win not change minds =) One thing a guy above us mentioned is New Edan has always been Min/Max heavy.... I did not go into it but it really does make this villianizatrion of these players even more absurd. Why are these Min/max villains so very different then other min/max players? Why are they so very special that they need to pushed from the game? Weirdness.
Oh, I'm sorry, you thought I was saying that New Eden attracted min/maxers?
No, I meant that New Eden brings out the worst in some people, after all, the Devs made a music video telling people to Harden The **** Up. In addition to that, I remember seeing a video (a year or so ago) where there was a Dev in an interview teaching newbs how to scam in Jita and ENCOURAGING it. TBH, I don't really have a problem with this, it is what helped cement my fondness for Dust and EVE.
Min/maxers though are among the worst type of gamers I have had to endure gaming with in the 26 years I've been playing PNP RPGs. They do little more than twist rules to suit their own desires (further exacerbated by the fact that they are usually Rules Lawyers too). They take a game that is supposed to be about fun and turn it into a "I can twist rules and exploit loopholes better than you".
I have watched many a good tabletop game go down the drain because of min/maxing, I don't want to see this happen here.
CCP is simply practicing what they preach by not kowtowing to the "GIMME RESPEC NAO!!!!" crowd. I support this, I abide by the belief that my decisions need to be preserved and I am not crying for a respec.
HTFU & SIUB or GTFO. |
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