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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2690
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Posted - 2013.07.25 21:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Skybladev2 wrote:Assembling aircrafts together When all types of aircrafts will be deployed, air combat will look like this:
- Fighters fight with individual infantry and dropships. They can damage heavy aircrafts as well, but must stay away of their anti-swarms.
- Dropships deliver infantry over long or high distances and perform fire support over small areas. It can attack heavy aircrafts from above or drop infantry to its roof.
- Heavy aircrafts working much like tanks in the sky, clearing large areas or ground vehicles/installations.
Future thoughts. Part 1: How Eve and Dust economies can merge Personally, I think we need a solid distinction between two types of Light Aircraft.
Fighters and Gunships.
As you can see from the following concept art, the original vision in 2009 was for the Fighters to full both the Gunships and Fighter role by having a secondary player operate a gun turret that deployed when the aircraft hovered:
2006 Gallente Fighter Concept Art
However, this would lead to that second player being unable to do anything in the aircraft, and effectively completely useless until such point as the "hover" mode was activated, as you can see.
Conversely, if you look at the concept art shown during the 2013 FanFest CCP Presents! presentation, you will notice that the Caldari Fighter they showed looks like it was not designed with that same role in mind.
Caldari Fighter Landed Caldari Fighter Airborne
This aircraft has more of the appearance of a dedicated fixed-wing "jet" aircraft, and what I had always envisioned Fighters to be. This also sets it up as a single-seater, meaning you don't have to pay off one of your Corpmates to get them to handle your turret on the rare occasion you switch to "hover mode".
With the idea of a hybrid aircraft off the table, which is really for the best, this still leaves open the space for a dedicated VTOL gunship. The Assault Dropship was a good step toward providing a more attack-oriented role for pilots, but it's still the equivalent of a Black Hawk with guns on the side, rather than something like an Apache Longbow.
This aircraft would be a two-seater, possibly feature some kind of unguided rocket launcher or other lower-damage weapon for the pilot to use that would require pointing the aircraft at the target, and then have a turret mounted underneath with a full 360 degrees of rotation that is managed by a gunner.
A good example of what I'm talking about can be seen in Battlefield 2142. The VTOL gunships have a somewhat weak rocket launcher that can be fired by the pilot, while the gunner has access to a rotary cannon mounted under the nose, and optically guided missiles.
This allowed those aircraft to be dangerous to both vehicles and infantry, while their lesser armor plating made them easier to shoot down if they didn't stay mobile.
Thus, a Gunship would pack far more firepower than an Assault Dropship, but have to rely more on staying mobile to avoid being shot down, which would be assisted by it being a Light Aircraft as opposed to a Medium one.
Bear in mind, this hinges on Dropships in general getting an HP buff at some point. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2692
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Posted - 2013.07.26 02:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Wow, that kind of died.
Have Dropships really done that much of a number on our pilots? |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2693
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 03:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Wow, that kind of died.
Have Dropships really done that much of a number on our pilots? Yes. Knowing what happened to Dropships, light and heavy aircraft are going to be paper airplanes and lead baloons respectively. I'm confident that piloting will be far more rewarding with the scale of the rework they've been telling us we can expect. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2694
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 11:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Wow, that kind of died.
Have Dropships really done that much of a number on our pilots? Yes. Knowing what happened to Dropships, light and heavy aircraft are going to be paper airplanes and lead baloons respectively. I'm confident that piloting will be far more rewarding with the scale of the rework they've been telling us we can expect. I hope so. I'm anxious to get my shield skills up so my Dropships can be fit for tank decently. My only block with them so far has been the controls.
By that I mean the button layout, before someone comes in here thinking I want them to redo the handling or something. I've played Ace Combat for so many years that I can't get around trying to yaw with L2-R2. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2705
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 21:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Canari Elphus wrote:Good read, thanks OP.
My thoughts on LAA are very similar to yours.
LAA need to be speed tanked, not HP. They should barely be able to survive a forge or round of swarms. There should be no moveable turrets on them (trying to aim a turret at speed = lol) There will be two weapons that the pilot can switch between (front weapon and ordinance) The weapons will be classified as 'medium' as far as damage goes.
Movement techniques - L2 - Air Break - R2 - Thrust - L1 - Weapon Cycle - L2 - Weapon Fire (lock on then fire for some weapons) - Left Stick - General movement - Right Stick - Yaw for tight banked turns (only L/R functionality) - VTOL is auto initiated when airspeed = 0 (good idea OP!)
This would make mapping to a joystick/pedal setup easy Joystick - Left stick plus buttons for fire/switch etc Pedals - Right stick Throttle - L2/R2
Weapon Systems - Nose - This would be standard assortment we see today - Blaster - Anti aircraft or strafing for anti-infantry - Missles - Mostly anti-infantry - Railgun - Anti installation and anti-vehicle
- Ordinance - This would be a new set of weapons but could be modeled off of what we have now and what is coming - Missiles - This could be patterned after Swarms. They have time to lock on and then fire. This works because the aircraft must have LOS for a set period of time to lock on which means they are flying in a set path and could be vulnerable to fire. They will do a little more damage than proto swarms (remember, the jet is always moving so they cant camp a target like an infantry with swarms can) and skilling them up only increases damage a bit but increases the number fired (and extra skill would be reducing lock on time). One way to make this fair would be to have specialized missiles that have a decent skew towards shield or armor.
- Bombs - These would be dumbfire weapons with AOE damage. It will need a good bit of physics because the trajectory will be based off of speed angle and yaw. They should be somewhat powerful as they are dumbfire and aiming them should require skill. They could easily fly off course so it would require the aircraft to be moving slowly or low which makes it a much easier target to hit. Possible variations on bombs would be an ECM (disrupts HUD, turrets and installations for a set period of time) and a Flux bomb (larger blast radius and takes out shields and deployed equipment but no damage to armor)
Having missiles and bombs be specific means that the aircraft would not be solo monsters and still require a team effort. They could kill on their own but it promotes strategy, communication and tactics to truly shine.
Thoughts?
I like your weapon suggestions!
We've had confirmation since last year that custom keybinds on all control methods are "coming eventually", so that should handle any issues with control. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2712
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 02:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:The cockpit view could use a lot of work as well. HELL yes. We'll need a fully unobstructed view to the front, and ideally a free-look function for ALL aerial vehicles.
Right now you pretty much can't fly properly in first person with that narrow-ass forward view and no ability to look around.
Aizen Intiki wrote: The Gallente fighter design is still there. Hey, they don't have to have the exact same function; that would be lame.....
That it would be. As lame as those half-and-half aircraft Planetside 2 has that try to be both and fail horribly. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2731
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Posted - 2013.07.29 03:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Skybladev2 wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote: Personally, I think we need a solid distinction between two types of Light Aircraft.
Fighters and Gunships.
If use such kind of distinction, I think Fighters need to be light aircrafts, Gunships - medium (as it very close to existing Assault dropships) and Dropships became heavy aircrafts (with more EHP, of course). This will save existing HUD icons. Canari Elphus wrote:Good read, thanks OP. - Bombs - These would be dumbfire weapons with AOE damage.
Yes, I want them too if there will be no other interesting changes, but I think bombs can be 2-in-1. When you drop it, it falls like a solid piece. Detonation is condensed at minimal volume. This is good option for maximizing damage to turrets and tanks. If you feel, that you a missing a target, you can press drop button again and bomb will became cassette bomb in the air, thus covering wider area, but lowering damage per m2. I don't think there's any issue with multiple vehicles using the same icon. That's inevitable anyway considering that Speeders are obviously going to be Light vehicles just like LAVs are. |
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