DUST Search - Announcement:Dev Blog: Fine-tune Aiming and Controls

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Kevall Longstride wrote:

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Ryder Azorria wrote:

Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:

And yet again us KB/M users are shafted because CCP refuses to allow us raw input.

Instead, we get 'aim assist'. We don't need your bullshit systems, we NEED OUR MOUSE AS IT IS MEANT TO BE.

Ever considered that there might be a reason for that?

Ever consider that those reasons are irrelevant and people should take responsibility for their inferior control choice?

Every other competitive gaming community knows this except for the console FPS community, which is still being catered to like a bunch of babies.

And it's that kind of zenophobic attitude that PC fanbois hold, thinking that any gamer who doesn't use PC is scum when console gaming represents the larger market by far that makes us sooooo willing to listen to your torturously inept drivel.

When you reach puberty and can conserve with grown ups with reasoned and considered argument, we'll listen.

It's the racing community, the fighting game community, the flight sim community, the rhythm game community, the PC fps community, etc.

It's not just one community, it's all of them. All of them but yours. And it has very little to do with PC gaming, that's just a scapegoat you are using so you can play the victim card and try to act superior when you are actually in the wrong.

Because your community is the one who's primary demographic is whiny teenagers who need to be catered to.

I imagine I am far older and far more experienced than you in these things, so I recommend you shut your mouth now before you make yourself look even more foolish. Thanks.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 375	Posted - 2013.07.25 21:15:00 - [1] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: Zyrus Amalomyn wrote: Let the controller users cripple themselves if they really want to be that lazy and not get a cheap combo deal. I have a home theatre setup, with the ps3 on the receiver. My wife users it alot as well, so I can't just take it and put it on a small TV or monitor just to play dust with a mouse(not that I would even if I could, I like surround). Playing with a keyboard and mouse from my couch is pretty crap - i've tried. It's not a matter of buying a 'cheap combo' (because Yea, like real gamers would use cheap mice? Hah..). It's more about ergonomics and enjoyment. I'm not going to go out of my way to get a kb/m just to compete. It's a ps3, not a PC - and it's controller is a DS3, not kb/m. If I wanted kb/m, I'd go play my PC. Before I begin let me state that KB&M is a far better control system than a controller. This why I have consistently said from the first time I played Dust at Fanfest 2012 that the KB&M option should've been killed. The ONLY reason it was left in was as a way of appeasing the EVE players who went absolutely mental when it became a console exclusive. Now, Wolfman can say that isn't the case but lets just say not everyone at CCP sings from the same song sheet on this issue. It's a console game CCP. You made the decision, now own that decision. Trying to balance two disparate forms of control is a waste of development time and resources, especially when you consider that no one has EVER figured out how to do it before now. KB&M users complain they're being gimped while joypad users say it doesn't feel as good as other games like Halo or COD. The solution is simple. Pick one and drop the other. My vote goes with picking the one that comes with the PS3 in the box. Its precisely why the majority of console are under a TV and their owner is sat on a sofa. That how they want to play the game. As someone has already said, Planetside 2 gets it. Sony have already confirmed that PS4 and PC players will be on seperate servers. Because it will always be a fools errend trying to make both work to the satisfaction of both groups of players. It's never going to happen so why waste time. Put all the players on the same controller and concentrate on making it as good as you can. Until it happens you're not going to get the mass market of 'twitch' players staying with Dust.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 376	Posted - 2013.07.25 22:01:00 - [2] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Zyrus Amalomyn wrote: And yet again us KB/M users are shafted because CCP refuses to allow us raw input. Instead, we get 'aim assist'. We don't need your bullshit systems, we NEED OUR MOUSE AS IT IS MEANT TO BE. Ever considered that there might be a reason for that? Ever consider that those reasons are irrelevant and people should take responsibility for their inferior control choice? Every other competitive gaming community knows this except for the console FPS community, which is still being catered to like a bunch of babies. And it's that kind of zenophobic attitude that PC fanbois hold, thinking that any gamer who doesn't use PC is scum when console gaming represents the larger market by far that makes us sooooo willing to listen to your torturously inept drivel. When you reach puberty and can conserve with grown ups with reasoned and considered argument, we'll listen.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 377	Posted - 2013.07.25 23:32:00 - [3] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Zyrus Amalomyn wrote: And yet again us KB/M users are shafted because CCP refuses to allow us raw input. Instead, we get 'aim assist'. We don't need your bullshit systems, we NEED OUR MOUSE AS IT IS MEANT TO BE. Ever considered that there might be a reason for that? Ever consider that those reasons are irrelevant and people should take responsibility for their inferior control choice? Every other competitive gaming community knows this except for the console FPS community, which is still being catered to like a bunch of babies. And it's that kind of zenophobic attitude that PC fanbois hold, thinking that any gamer who doesn't use PC is scum when console gaming represents the larger market by far that makes us sooooo willing to listen to your torturously inept drivel. When you reach puberty and can conserve with grown ups with reasoned and considered argument, we'll listen. It's the racing community, the fighting game community, the flight sim community, the rhythm game community, the PC fps community, etc. It's not just one community, it's all of them. All of them but yours. And it has very little to do with PC gaming, that's just a scapegoat you are using so you can play the victim card and try to act superior when you are actually in the wrong. Because your community is the one who's primary demographic is whiny teenagers who need to be catered to. I imagine I am far older and far more experienced than you in these things, so I recommend you shut your mouth now before you make yourself look even more foolish. Thanks. This 'whiny' teenager is in fact 41. And has been playing computer games since you had program them into the computer yourself from the pages of 'Crash' or 'Your Sinclair '. As to all the communities you mentioned... The racing community uses a force feedback steering wheel if they're serious about it, on both PC and console. The fighting community use an arcade style control stick if they're serious about it, on both PC and console. The flight sim community use a flight grip and throttle control if they're serious about it, on both PC and console. The rhythm game community use dance mats and custom made instrument controllers if they're serious about it, on both PC and console. Only the PC FPS, MMOG and RTS community use KB&M if they're serious about it. And usually overpriced custom ones at that. So that's your absurd 'It's not just one community, it's all of them' nonsense blown from the water. And did I not say that KB&M is a superior control system in my first post? I use a KB&M when playing Eve. I use a KB&M when playing X-COM. I use it when I play Civ V. All on my PC. I use KB&M on those games because I don't need to make very fast and rapid movement and its more precise. You'll notice that FPS games on the PC aren't on that list. Well, I play FPS games on consoles because the rapid movement I mentioned that is required for FPS, I'm unable to do using KB&M because of a physical disability that prevents me from doing so. Using a controller allows me to play them and as they game is build around that controller I don't have to worry about all the rather annoying hotkeys that plagues PC FPS games. Its precisely because I'm forced to use a controller and consoles to play FPS that I appreciate that the superior KB&M option shouldn't be on Dust. So I warn you now, accuse me again of, how did you put it, playing the victim card and using it as a scapegoat, when it is in fact a physical disability is what prevents me using KB&M in an FPS game, then the only person who is going to look foolish is you. It'll also show you up as an insensitive a'hole whose opinion should be discounted as coming from such. Thank you.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 383	Posted - 2013.07.26 10:08:00 - [4] - Quote It's a question of compromise. And the ripple effects along the design decision process in the future development of a game or indeed any creative endeavour. Nearly two years CCP made the decision to halt the development of Dust on PC and make it a console game. Instead of owning that decision and working on making as good a control system for the the default controller on that console, in this case the Duelshock, like every successful console FPS game since GoldenEye was developed with the N64 controller specifically in mind, CCP made a compromise. It was made purely as a way of appeasing the Eve players who went absolutely ballistic with the switch to console. Even now, the vast majority of Eve don't give a stuff about Dust. Not because there's no significant effect on their gameplay or a lack of an interesting game mechanic but because its on a console. And until it appears on their beloved PC they will continue to not give a stuff about it. You only have to follow Tweetfleet to discover that. So because of a compromise that didn't have the effect that CCP thought it would (not the first time this has happened), we as Dust players were dumped on from day one with two different control systems, neither of which works to the very best of it's abilities, and neither can be improved significantly without making the other redundant or OP. As the game has developed this first compromise has had the effect of other compromises having to be made. Each one amplifying the shortcomings of previous ones and doing nothing to improve the speed at which development progress. This has continued until we hit the brick wall of Uprising. At this point it was clear that the game had stalled. Things that were in development have been shelved in order to get the core gameplay solid. This should have been accomplished a year ago by the way, not two months after release. It's why the Shanghai office is undergoing a massive reorganisation at the the moment. It's why we've got senior and veteran CCP game designers like Flying Scotsman being drafted in. It's why this wholesale change to a monthly iteration cycle has been introduced. A year late in my opinion but I'm glad the changes have been made and we're already getting tangible improvements in less than month than were made between Christmas and 'launch'. My dislike towards having KB&M in Dust isn't purely based on my inability to use them (as much as I would prefer to use them) but because its symptomatic of a design based on compromise which has never worked well in design. Nasa didn't compromise and it got them to the moon. Sir Christopher Wren didn't compromise and we got St. Paul's Cathedral. "Compromise is but the sacrifice of one right or good in the hope retaining another - too often ending in the loss of both"
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 383	Posted - 2013.07.26 10:52:00 - [5] - Quote Incedently as CCP Wolfman has been so wonderfully garrulous over the last few days and couple of Dev blogs (thanks for that) I'd like to know what the player split is on the three control systems we have in the game, KB&M, Duelshock and Move. I think its been answered before but I can't find it at all. Cheers.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 383	Posted - 2013.07.26 11:53:00 - [6] - Quote May seem far fetched but we made it to the moon. (Yes we did tinfoil wearers, get over it) No one has yet to make a game using KB&M and controller work to the satisfaction of both groups of users. And once again I'm perfectly willing to concede that KB&M is the far superior control method and yes it is used in competitive gaming. I used a controller in the Eve/Dust tourney at Fanfest however and still came second. But the vast majority of console FPS players use the controllers. No amount of saying how crap they are is going to change that simple fact. By compromising CCP have a gimped control and aiming system that penalises the majority of their customers.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 385	Posted - 2013.07.26 14:35:00 - [7] - Quote Zyrus Amalomyn wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: May seem far fetched but we made it to the moon. (Yes we did tinfoil wearers, get over it) No one has yet to make a game using KB&M and controller work to the satisfaction of both groups of users. And once again I'm perfectly willing to concede that KB&M is the far superior control method and yes it is used in competitive gaming. I used a controller in the Eve/Dust tourney at Fanfest however and still came second. But the vast majority of console FPS players use the controllers. No amount of saying how crap they are is going to change that simple fact. By compromising CCP have a gimped control and aiming system that penalises the majority of their customers. The vast majority of console gamers are using a crippled contorl mechanism and only have themselves to blame for thinking it's 'decent'. I don't play console FPS beyond a very casual couple games because controllers suck for FPS. I only take this game seriously because it allows for KB/M And once again your calling the majority of gamers, too stupid to know other wise and they get what they deserve. The only people people who take this game seriously are those that use a KB&M? And these are the only players that should get a decent control system? I know that the KB&M is the superior system. But I'm also enough of a realist to understand that controllers are what console users habitually use so why enforce an unfamiliar controller upon them or gimp their experience. Even if I could physically use KB&M and Dust only used a controller I'd still play Dust because I take the game seriously, not the way its controlled. If you're so concerned as to the stupid people being catered to and your KB&M being nerfed because of it, then why not go to a game where you don't have to sully yourself? I hear Planetside 2 is quite good. No controllers to cramp your style.