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Taking a pass at AR reblancing

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Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 360	Posted - 2013.07.25 13:56:00 - [1] - Quote This thread has already been posted in GD, but I wanted to create a thread in Feedback for some more... feedback. Hey everyone, The graph detailing the increase in kills for the Flaylock Pistol in this dev blog got me interested in looking at balance in my weapon of choice, the Assault Rifle. While I don't think that the Assault Rifle in its entirety is flawed, I think that a graph detailing which type of assault rifle was used most often would be highly skewed in favor of the Basic Assault rifle. Just as CCP (and the community) wants to avoid one weapon to dominate the battlefield, so to should we avoid one weapon variety dominating an entire branch of weapons. I'll use numbers in this post, but they are more illustrative of a point then they are concrete values. However, all the numbers I looked at came from this site. (I know its old, but it's the only comprehensive list I could find.) Values for weapons are: Militia/Standard/Advanced/Proto Topics Being discussed in the next post Damage/DPS (From Least to Greatest): - Standard: 25 / 28 / 31 / 34 --> +3 Damage per level. Moderate nerf across tiers. No change at Proto - Burst: 28 / 30 / 33 / 40 --> +2, 3, 6 (respectively) per level. Moderate buff across tiers - Breach: 39 / 43 / 49 / 56 --> +4, 6, 9 (respectively) per level. Minor nerf across tiers, no change at Proto - Tactical: 48 / 58 / 68 / 78 --> +10 (respectively) per level. Major nerf across lower tiers, no change at Proto. I think this damage progression illustrates the changes I want to see in the feel and perception of the weapon class. First, you'll notice that all weapons have a big jump between their Militia and Proto grades. I kept proto values the same (save the standard AR), and simply stretched the values going down. I think this I think this gives the feel of really unlocking something new and stronger. Currently, the Exile is popular because in most cases the TTK between it and the Duvolle is not very noticeable. The current damage on a Duvolle is 34.1 giving the I think this is okay. Secondly, In the name of rewarding tactical play and earning more skillful kills, the standard AR is the weakest weapon, both in damage an progression. I think players should be rewarded more - as far as damage as concerned - by picking weapons that require them to place their shots, and this break down give players greater rewards for working with more difficult weapons. The most standard option of the most standard weapon should not be the most exciting. RPM (From Least to Greatest): - Tactical: 450 / 470 / 490 / 510 or 510 across tiers - Breach: 550 / 560 / 570 / 600 or 600 across tiers - Burst: 725 / 740 / 750 / 760 or 760 across tiers - Standard: 760 / 770 / 780 / 800 or 800 across tiers Remember: none of these numbers really matter. I haven't done any DPS calculations to see how the numbers check out against other weapons. It's just to illustrate the idea that TACs should be shooting the slowest, and that Breach weapons should be hosing opponents down in CQC. I was conflicted when I thought about these numbers. In essence, I gave Burst AR the values of a Standard AR, gave the Breach the values of the Burst AR, slightly increased the RPM of the TAR, and dramatically increased the damage of the Breach. My thinking was that the TAR can stand to shoot a bit faster (From what I hear from the few people who use the weapon in the community) while still being balance. My suggestions give the Burst more damage than the AR, so its fire rate should be noticeably different. The Standard AR has enough RPM so that it should be giving players a lot of kick when they try to open it up. The Breach AR is now a high powered SMG, a role which I think it should fill. Below the dotted line are some other changes i thought of. These changes are more or less common place, so I wanted to give people the option not to read a wall of text. These are just some thoughts to add some diversity to this class of weapons too. Tell me what you think. Dispersion / Long Range Accuracy(From Least to Greatest): - Breach - Standard - Burst - Tactical Hip fire / Short Range Accuracy (From Least to Greatest): - Tactical - Burst - Standard - Breach For those who dislike the idea of a weapon having a cone of dispersion, hip fire accuracy could just be determining how strong the autoaim system corrects a player's input at certain values. If everything worked out, it would mean that a breach would "snap" to a target directly in front of a player, while the TAC would have little to no auto aim support. i think that would reward people who can still use the TAC up close while providing the Breach with more benefits. Recoil Per Shot (From Least to Greatest): - Standard - Breach - Burst - Tactical Recoil over time (From Least to Greatest) - Tactical* - Burst* - Breach - Standard Scope Fidelity (From Least to Greatest) - Breach - Standard - Burst - Tactical
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 360	Posted - 2013.07.25 13:56:00 - [2] - Quote Edits to OP based on feedback so far, adding AR variants to the skill tree is a bad Idea. AR pricing could be reduced between tiers. Should this be related to the weapon, or just a general price cut? Are there any weapons in particular? As per RyDogV and xSir Campsalotx's suggestions, the Breach RPM values should be tweaked to make it more viable in CQC without surpassing the AR. Values have been tweaked to put the breach between TAR and Burst values SP Values are also being discussed. Is there a way to limit the flexibility of the AR skill without adding another skill sink? As per Semperfi's post, AR diversity should come from racial ARs instead of the current AR tree we have now. Should these numbers be used/tweaked for racial variants? Courtesy of VyZion Eyri, an updated, comprehensive list of AR damage, RPM, etc can be found here As per Panther Alpha's post (and Son-of-A-Gun's sentiment), considering the idea that ARs are fine the way they are. Thoughts? As per Daxxis KANNAH's post, a graph of AR kills superimposed over the Flay lack graph in today's dev blog would be helpful to see how many kills the weapon is scoring. This might be something useful to do regardless of whether or not the community gets it (but I hope the community gets it) Per Revelations 514's post, increasing recoil on STD ARs and dispersion on Breach ARs would improve diversity while keeping these two weapons in their roles. Thoughts? Thought seconded by Ranger SnakeBlood's post post. ARs need more of a movement penalty to offset their accuracy, and balance them against other weapons. He argues that this would require a damage buff to compensate. Where would the buff go? Would it be of ARs across the board? Thoughts? Standard AR recoil modifications also commented on by Shadow of War88, suggesting that the standard AR have a higher first shot recoil multiplier to make them less ubiquitous. As per Scheneighnay McBob's post, all AR variants should be unlocked at the same level. I agree. Forcing players to spend more SP to unlock the new variant adds an unnecessary hurdle in achieving weapon diversity. It doesn't matter how little SP you need to put in, just the thought of having to spend more SP to unlock more of the same gun is a mental turn off, for which the battlefield suffers. Thoughts? As per Shadow of War88's post, the TAC should be a high accuracy, low RoF weapon. I was thinking that the TAC should have higher RoF with a much more steep recoil penalty. Thoughts? As per Shadow of War88's post, as well as my own thoughts, Burst ARs and TACs should either have a longer optimal than Breach or Standard ARs or have a more gradual decline in damage over their absolute ranges to emphasize the range bonus the weapons give you. Thoughts?
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 19	Posted - 2013.07.25 14:05:00 - [3] - Quote bump this thread for people to see.
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 364	Posted - 2013.07.25 14:34:00 - [4] - Quote Thank you for the friendly bump. Bumping again for more feedback
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 366	Posted - 2013.07.25 23:05:00 - [5] - Quote Bumping again for more feedback
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 95	Posted - 2013.07.26 02:17:00 - [6] - Quote well thought out, and I agree with you with removing all the variations and that the racial variants should replace them.
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 368	Posted - 2013.07.26 07:56:00 - [7] - Quote Bumping


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