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BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 62	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:53:00 - [1] - Quote Tanks r not balanced from an isk stand point. My standard tank tanks 3-4 games to make up and thts if it's my cheap fit. a STANDARD tank. wat will proto be. or ADV. and even the STD enforcer tanks take like 10-15 games to pay for
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 62	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:55:00 - [2] - Quote Medic 1879 wrote: AfroSunshineY Consequence wrote: Its as the title says. I feel as though tanks are fine just as they are. The sight of a tank still fills me with dread even now. I know that the argument comes from people who have lost tanks to AV nades and swarm launchers and forge guns, but the fact of the matter is that a really good tank fit reigns absolute F%$#KING TERROR on the battle field. Speccing into your free antiarmor suit has no effect on a good tank fit at all. Period. Only if multiple people refit into the AV role can they take down a good tanker. The way I see it, is that it works in levels. A basic tank fit can be taken down by multiple (read: 2 or more) basic AV fits or a lone wolf (read, singuar) advanced or proto AV fit. Advanced tank fits can only be taken down by multiple advanced/basic fits or a lone wolf proto AV fit. Proto Uber tanks need multiple proto/adv/basic fits to do the necessary amount of damage to counteract repair modules, smart tanking practices and return fire. This is the way it should work, and I believe that it is the way it does work. Don't come crying because you park your car in the middle of a battle and expect to go 50-0 without actually trying. Just because it costs a lot of ISK doesn't mean it is a win button. For goodness sakes, even if you get taken out by an opposing AV player, you HAVE to realize that refitting into an AV role puts one at risk to opposing infantry fire (especially now that the flaylock's been nerfed). So those people destroying you are putting themselves at risk. If you're communicating with your own infantry - telling them that you're taking fire and telling them to take the fight to the enemy so that refitting into an AV role is too costly - theres a decreased likelihood that you'll be squashed to pieces. You can't just expect that since you're in a tank you're invincible. Tanks still terrify me. They still own, but like anything else in this game, they require attention. Keep in mind that going AV is not cheap - Wiyrokimi or whatever av grenades are a pain in the rear to fit and are useless against infantry. Choosing to equip those grenades is a compromise for an infantry player because they give up the ability to use anti-infantry grenades - the PG/CPU costs of those grenades is also astronomical meaning they must give up the use of the best protective modules (proto shield/armor) or weapons modifiers. The AV role is one that I think is already full of compromises - and its not like even at proto that they can single handedly take down a smart, active, aware tanker. Those dropships though? They are like little kittens. They really need a buff. None of this really applies to dropships. Only the very best dropship pilots even stand a chance. The only flaw with that arguement is the lack of proto tanks. and the lack of ADV tanks.
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 62	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:58:00 - [3] - Quote Also AV is stupid cheap. A forge tht is stronger than my rail. yet it cost 20 times less than my rail. how does tht even make since. Proto AV fits can cost 100k to 200k. Even then they r taking the risk just like i took the risk for my tank. IMO V needs to be more expensive. At least 300k-400k for a proto av weapon 100k-200k for advanced and 10k-60k for STD and milita needs to be weaker but cost the same.
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 65	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:00:00 - [4] - Quote AfroSunshineY Consequence wrote: BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Tanks r not balanced from an isk stand point. My standard tank tanks 3-4 games to make up and thts if it's my cheap fit. a STANDARD tank. wat will proto be. or ADV. and even the STD enforcer tanks take like 10-15 games to pay for I understand that point. The way isk is given out is kind of weird/arbitray. But at the same time it discourages people like the above from spamming those tanks, which are invincible unless you're an AV player (who is out of their range, because even if you're AV and you're too close, you'll die. Period) yea spaming it discourages ppl using tanks in general. i don't even use them cause of the price. it's not even worth my time. a proto tank would take like 40-50 games to grind for. and ain't nobody got time for tht. especially how weak tanks r now.
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 65	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:07:00 - [5] - Quote AfroSunshineY Consequence wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Pull out OP proto swarms ??? Profit Come on now, be honest. Proto Swarms are NOT OP. Everybody in this game goes APE-SH*T everytime someone with a counter to their style of play counters their style of play - what they never consider is that to counter your style of play, that person has to give up something as well. That is my point. Essentially what I'm saying is that you can't be a lone wolf tanker. You need to still work as a team. Work with and direct your infantry in you're taking fire. Ask a logi for help in repairing yourself for goodness sakes. Play the F&^%$KING game and stop Q_Q all the time. If there are tweaks to be made, request those tweaks. Wait for the pilot suit. Get better. Just stop whining all the time. HAVE FUN. I'm a freaking SCOUT. My KDR is abysmal. I lose lots of my games. What I don't do is derive some sense of self-worth or pity from Dust 514 because its just a game. HAVE FUN. Play the way you like. Play it as superficially or as seriously as you want. Help the developers make your experience better, but for the love of pete, everyone stop whining all the time acting entitled to what is essentially a F2P game that is STILL being developed. i'm honest. they r OP.
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 65	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:48:00 - [6] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Tanks r not balanced from an isk stand point. My standard tank tanks 3-4 games to make up and thts if it's my cheap fit. a STANDARD tank. wat will proto be. or ADV. and even the STD enforcer tanks take like 10-15 games to pay for In pub matches this is correct but not in PC matches. In PC it's pretty balanced, at least with clone packs. 1 tank we'll say is 1.5 million and 1 clone is 300k (30mil/100 clones). That's 1.8 million. The average person will run full proto if they can so 150k per suit. Plus the 300k per clone is 450k. So if you kill 4 players with your tank you have broke even with the enemy if you kill more well you're winning the ISK race. And what tanker doesn't have a 4+KDR? This doesn't even bring up the clones greater intrinsic value to the match. There is a reason tanks are heavily used in PC. in PC tanks die a **** ton. so u end up losing isk. especially if ur against Teamplayers. XD. and if u lose u get nothing.
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 66	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:49:00 - [7] - Quote ladwar wrote: Void Echo wrote: AfroSunshineY Consequence wrote: Its as the title says. I feel as though tanks are fine just as they are. The sight of a tank still fills me with dread even now. I know that the argument comes from people who have lost tanks to AV nades and swarm launchers and forge guns, but the fact of the matter is that a really good tank fit reigns absolute F%$#KING TERROR on the battle field. Speccing into your free antiarmor suit has no effect on a good tank fit at all. Period. Only if multiple people refit into the AV role can they take down a good tanker. The way I see it, is that it works in levels. A basic tank fit can be taken down by multiple (read: 2 or more) basic AV fits or a lone wolf (read, singuar) advanced or proto AV fit. Advanced tank fits can only be taken down by multiple advanced/basic fits or a lone wolf proto AV fit. Proto Uber tanks need multiple proto/adv/basic fits to do the necessary amount of damage to counteract repair modules, smart tanking practices and return fire. This is the way it should work, and I believe that it is the way it does work. Don't come crying because you park your car in the middle of a battle and expect to go 50-0 without actually trying. Just because it costs a lot of ISK doesn't mean it is a win button. For goodness sakes, even if you get taken out by an opposing AV player, you HAVE to realize that refitting into an AV role puts one at risk to opposing infantry fire (especially now that the flaylock's been nerfed). So those people destroying you are putting themselves at risk. If you're communicating with your own infantry - telling them that you're taking fire and telling them to take the fight to the enemy so that refitting into an AV role is too costly - theres a decreased likelihood that you'll be squashed to pieces. You can't just expect that since you're in a tank you're invincible. Tanks still terrify me. They still own, but like anything else in this game, they require attention. Keep in mind that going AV is not cheap - Wiyrokimi or whatever av grenades are a pain in the rear to fit and are useless against infantry. Choosing to equip those grenades is a compromise for an infantry player because they give up the ability to use anti-infantry grenades - the PG/CPU costs of those grenades is also astronomical meaning they must give up the use of the best protective modules (proto shield/armor) or weapons modifiers. The AV role is one that I think is already full of compromises - and its not like even at proto that they can single handedly take down a smart, active, aware tanker. Those dropships though? They are like little kittens. They really need a buff. None of this really applies to dropships. Only the very best dropship pilots even stand a chance. your 1st problem with this post... there are no advanced tanks. your 2nd problem with this post.. there are no prototype tanks.. we only have standard and militia tanks, but we have advanced and prototype modules.. the only proto modules i would say are the turrets. the second tier modules are only at advanced at best so no proto modules because turrets are not modules. proto armor hardeners but thts about it. it requires lvl 5. skill wise.