DUST Search - Unpopular Opinion: Tanks are balanced

BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote:

Galvan Nized wrote:

BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote:

Tanks r not balanced from an isk stand point. My standard tank tanks 3-4 games to make up and thts if it's my cheap fit. a STANDARD tank. wat will proto be. or ADV. and even the STD enforcer tanks take like 10-15 games to pay for

In pub matches this is correct but not in PC matches. In PC it's pretty balanced, at least with clone packs.

1 tank we'll say is 1.5 million and 1 clone is 300k (30mil/100 clones). That's 1.8 million.

The average person will run full proto if they can so 150k per suit. Plus the 300k per clone is 450k.

So if you kill 4 players with your tank you have broke even with the enemy if you kill more well you're winning the ISK race. And what tanker doesn't have a 4+KDR?

This doesn't even bring up the clones greater intrinsic value to the match. There is a reason tanks are heavily used in PC.

in PC tanks die a **** ton. so u end up losing isk. especially if ur against Teamplayers. XD. and if u lose u get nothing.


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AfroSunshineY Consequence Clan Choinnich 39	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:47:00 - [1] - Quote Its as the title says. I feel as though tanks are fine just as they are. The sight of a tank still fills me with dread even now. I know that the argument comes from people who have lost tanks to AV nades and swarm launchers and forge guns, but the fact of the matter is that a really good tank fit reigns absolute F%$#KING TERROR on the battle field. Speccing into your free antiarmor suit has no effect on a good tank fit at all. Period. Only if multiple people refit into the AV role can they take down a good tanker. The way I see it, is that it works in levels. A basic tank fit can be taken down by multiple (read: 2 or more) basic AV fits or a lone wolf (read, singuar) advanced or proto AV fit. Advanced tank fits can only be taken down by multiple advanced/basic fits or a lone wolf proto AV fit. Proto Uber tanks need multiple proto/adv/basic fits to do the necessary amount of damage to counteract repair modules, smart tanking practices and return fire. This is the way it should work, and I believe that it is the way it does work. Don't come crying because you park your car in the middle of a battle and expect to go 50-0 without actually trying. Just because it costs a lot of ISK doesn't mean it is a win button. For goodness sakes, even if you get taken out by an opposing AV player, you HAVE to realize that refitting into an AV role puts one at risk to opposing infantry fire (especially now that the flaylock's been nerfed). So those people destroying you are putting themselves at risk. If you're communicating with your own infantry - telling them that you're taking fire and telling them to take the fight to the enemy so that refitting into an AV role is too costly - theres a decreased likelihood that you'll be squashed to pieces. You can't just expect that since you're in a tank you're invincible. Tanks still terrify me. They still own, but like anything else in this game, they require attention. Keep in mind that going AV is not cheap - Wiyrokimi or whatever av grenades are a pain in the rear to fit and are useless against infantry. Choosing to equip those grenades is a compromise for an infantry player because they give up the ability to use anti-infantry grenades - the PG/CPU costs of those grenades is also astronomical meaning they must give up the use of the best protective modules (proto shield/armor) or weapons modifiers. The AV role is one that I think is already full of compromises - and its not like even at proto that they can single handedly take down a smart, active, aware tanker. Those dropships though? They are like little kittens. They really need a buff. None of this really applies to dropships. Only the very best dropship pilots even stand a chance.
AfroSunshineY Consequence Clan Choinnich 41	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:51:00 - [2] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Bad, they're not right as it is but Armor Tanks are getting a nerf, your opinion isn't needed as you're just stating "They're fine now", which won't help us in the future. Also, THERE IS ONLY ONE LEVEL OF TANK, STANDARD, THERE IS NO ADVANCED OR PROTOTYPE. In other news I just watched Taz-666 solo a Madrugar with Standard Swarms, ya'll need to get good. Oh and my Madrugar costs me 1.7million ISK, my Proto Forge Heavy costs me under 100k, I'd need to die 17 times to lose what the tank costs. You know what I'm saying. There a difference between a tank that doesn't require any skill and one that someone has deeply invested in. And your 1.7 million ISK Madrugar makes quick work of MOST of the suits in this game - if you can find them. What am I supposed to do in my advanced light suit with a shotgun and locus grenades? NOTHIng. All i can do is hide or die. Unless I spec into an AV role - at which time I might stand a chance at the prototype level, but will still most likely need help to take you down
AfroSunshineY Consequence Clan Choinnich 41	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:56:00 - [3] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Tanks r not balanced from an isk stand point. My standard tank tanks 3-4 games to make up and thts if it's my cheap fit. a STANDARD tank. wat will proto be. or ADV. and even the STD enforcer tanks take like 10-15 games to pay for I understand that point. The way isk is given out is kind of weird/arbitray. But at the same time it discourages people like the above from spamming those tanks, which are invincible unless you're an AV player (who is out of their range, because even if you're AV and you're too close, you'll die. Period)
AfroSunshineY Consequence Clan Choinnich 45	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:06:00 - [4] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Pull out OP proto swarms ??? Profit Come on now, be honest. Proto Swarms are NOT OP. Everybody in this game goes APE-SH*T everytime someone with a counter to their style of play counters their style of play - what they never consider is that to counter your style of play, that person has to give up something as well. That is my point. Essentially what I'm saying is that you can't be a lone wolf tanker. You need to still work as a team. Work with and direct your infantry in you're taking fire. Ask a logi for help in repairing yourself for goodness sakes. Play the F&^%$KING game and stop Q_Q all the time. If there are tweaks to be made, request those tweaks. Wait for the pilot suit. Get better. Just stop whining all the time. HAVE FUN. I'm a freaking SCOUT. My KDR is abysmal. I lose lots of my games. What I don't do is derive some sense of self-worth or pity from Dust 514 because its just a game. HAVE FUN. Play the way you like. Play it as superficially or as seriously as you want. Help the developers make your experience better, but for the love of pete, everyone stop whining all the time acting entitled to what is essentially a F2P game that is STILL being developed.
AfroSunshineY Consequence Clan Choinnich 45	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:10:00 - [5] - Quote Relrrita wrote: I would be okay with everything; tank balance, cost, dismal income compared to investment if my tank had some sort of early warning system on it. Kudos to AV players that work hard and take me out, but so many times I've been hit by invisible swarms with no indication of where it's coming from. Forge guns are amusing too; a fraction of the cost with more damage output then my railgun. What's this? A tanker with productive input to the discussion? Basically what she (he?) said. maybe give the tank an early warning system and a way to further protect itself. Maybe add an additional mechanic that requires skill to use so tanks can protect themselves.
AfroSunshineY Consequence Clan Choinnich 45	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:11:00 - [6] - Quote ladwar wrote: AfroSunshineY Consequence wrote: Advanced tank fits can only be taken down by multiple advanced/basic fits or a lone wolf proto AV fit. Proto Uber tanks need multiple proto/adv/basic fits to do the necessary amount of damage to counteract repair modules, smart tanking practices and return fire. this is were i started laughing and shaking my head... there are no advanced or proto tanks. there are tech 2 tanks which are overall weaker then tech 1 but has small bonuses that don't overcome their generally overall weakness so tech 2 are weaker to AV then standard tanks(by a lot) and slower(32%) but has the smallest bonus to range and a tiny bit better zoom that you can barely notice at level 5. I give up.
AfroSunshineY Consequence Clan Choinnich 46	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:36:00 - [7] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Tanks r not balanced from an isk stand point. My standard tank tanks 3-4 games to make up and thts if it's my cheap fit. a STANDARD tank. wat will proto be. or ADV. and even the STD enforcer tanks take like 10-15 games to pay for In pub matches this is correct but not in PC matches. In PC it's pretty balanced, at least with clone packs. 1 tank we'll say is 1.5 million and 1 clone is 300k (30mil/100 clones). That's 1.8 million. The average person will run full proto if they can so 150k per suit. Plus the 300k per clone is 450k. So if you kill 4 players with your tank you have broke even with the enemy if you kill more well you're winning the ISK race. And what tanker doesn't have a 4+KDR? This doesn't even bring up the clones greater intrinsic value to the match. There is a reason tanks are heavily used in PC. in PC tanks die a **** ton. so u end up losing isk. especially if ur against Teamplayers. XD. and if u lose u get nothing. Everyone loses Isk in PC. The cost of tanks is to balance their effectiveness. you can't just spam them facepalm
AfroSunshineY Consequence Clan Choinnich 46	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:45:00 - [8] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Sotapopthegrey gay wrote: I believe, that theres a time and a place to bring out a tank. What about those who only have SP invested in tanks, huh? You're saying that there's a time and place for us to play the game, huh? Is that what you are saying? Sotapopthegrey gay wrote: don't bring it out then. Ok, you got me. AfroSunshineY Consequence wrote: I understand that point. The way isk is given out is kind of weird/arbitray. But at the same time it discourages people like the above from spamming those tanks, which are invincible unless you're an AV player (who is out of their range, because even if you're AV and you're too close, you'll die. Period) Judging by your post you are one of those people who face hevies from the front when you yourself are a scout. L2P. No one is supposed to be able to handle all situations. You seem to think that in order for us to be on the same level you would want to be able to kill tanks with your AR. Get out of here with that man. Your argument is weak sauce. I would never touch an AR. Tanks cost a lot. Skill wise and isk wise. So they dominate. There is no effective infantry counter to them except AV - Swarms, Forge, AV nades. The point I'm making is that while counters exist, they are not effective unless used in a group or on a less-well fit tank. Uber Proto tanks (and I'm going to keep calling them that because you @$$holes know exactly what I mean when I say proto tank and you're just nitpicking because you have no argument) can only be taken down with a coordinated effort. it just seems to me that tankers aren't so opposed to the supposed OPness of AV suits as they are to the fact tht those suits exist in the first place. It just seems as though those people expect - since they paid a lot for their tanks, that there should be no counters - well listen up. There are counters. But those counters require compromise in and of themselves. That's why I emphasize again: Tanks are fine. I'm not saying HTFU, because if tweaks are necessary they should be made. But stop this nonsense where you're all crying because your win button got broke by a team of dedicated AV players.