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Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
764
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Posted - 2013.07.23 00:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll just copy my responses here, since this is the new thread.
There are two major gripes with gear based matchmaking i have:
1. Allowing players to opt out from fighting superiorly equipped players defeats the purpose of tiered gear as no one will join proto matches unless he's capable of using proto himself (or is a sniper, or a mudertaxi). Why investing the cash when it doesn't net you more power relative to the other players? Just use your SP advantage to pubstomp in heavily bonused STD fits.
2. In principle i think that players should not have the ability to choose who they fight against. Picking an enemy you can take on and running away when outmatched needs to be an important "meta skill". Varying tiers of gear within a match mean that you have to pay attention to what the enemy fields and react accordingly, even if the best course of action is flight. |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
764
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 00:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Now that your second post mentions higher payouts let me reiterate my point one with this in mind.
So playing in tier 4 or 5 feels different than the lower tiers in what respct? Every one has better gear and everyone (good enough) gets enough ISK to run PRO all day long(more on that in the next paragraph). The relative power between all players is exactly the same. The game plays just as in tier 2 with just STD gear, maybe with a higher TTK due to a shifted dmg/eHP ratio. Going proto means exactly nothing as it forces you to play against equally strong (or stronger) proto fits, negating the purpose of PRO gear in the first place. All it does is even further raising the barrier of entry for higher tier matches as, with same or similar gear, passive skill bonuses are what makes the difference. It also reduces variety in higher tiers as only min-maxing yelds competitive results.
Also problematic is the fact that PRO was never intended to be your "lvl80" gear that you reach and then use regularly just because you can. It's the edge on the battlefield that you are willing to pay large sums of ISK for in battles where loosing is not an option. Note that your proposition negates this aspect aswell as joining higher tier matches makes running PRO outright mandatory.
The fact that so many people can affort running PRO day in day out is an issue by itself that should be adreesed. It's not supposed to be that way and your proposition would make PRO a throwaway commodity as long as you keep performing well in high tier pub matches. PRO should be special, not routine. |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
767
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Posted - 2013.07.23 01:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:I want to believe it mobius... but I can't.
My proto suit has a minimum of twice the EHP of a standard suit and my gun does 20% more damage + a slew of core skills.
There is a huge huge power gap between 16m with proto gear and 1m with standard gear. Not to mention im more familiar with the game mechanics too. We have to remember that, while the absolute difference especially between STD and PRO is huge, twice the eHP means about a second more fire for ARs and often no difference for weapons like FGs or SRs.
Most of the time when i manage to kill protos it's because i got a critical flank at which point i often wipe out half a squad of shiny stuff before they even get to react properly. It's the same the other way around. Any lone wolf that is not a speed tanked shotgunner will do jack to my vigilant STD/ADV squad even if he's running full on PRO gear. 300 more eHP might sound like much but in the end it's one flaylock hit, two MD hits or about .10 seconds of accurate AR fire until this difference is overcome.
I think Pubstomping is really more about the player behind that suit than the suit itself
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Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
768
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 01:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gogo O'Dell wrote:Balancing on player performace (WP, KDR, etc) will put logis, dedicated av, and dropship pilots all in the same games while ar's, snipers, and tankers will end up in the same games. doesnt work bc gear and role affects a player's performance. alos, putting tanks against proto av is not fair and without a buff, is stupid to do. unless you can find a better way to be fair to make protos, noobs, and tanks happy, don't only give reason why it is bad. True, but now that you pointed it out we can agree that this can be considered a general rule. The good thing about general rules is that we cant account for them statistcally inside of the matchmaking.
All you need to do is tro track where the K/D and WP came from and adjust their "elo rank"( or whatever CCP will call it) according to what we know about those discrepancies you mentioned. This is al lot of work but it is doable and judging by how long CCP is working on matchmaking and their statements on the forum i think they pay attention to this aswell.
And tanks are in a diffcult spot right now. But this is caused more by the V v. AV (sounds funny) disparity itself than by matchmaking in general. It's a balance issue first and foremost and thus should be handled as such (can't wait for these vehicle changes).
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Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
769
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 01:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
gbghg wrote:Personally I'm in favour of just scrapping the tiers entirely and balancing everything off the standard numbers, and then provide some real bonuses and downsides to the specialising's for each set of suits and vehicles, of course for that to work we would need the full complement of racial variants and the introduction of various features such as EWAR. I doubt it would ever happen but the game would probably be better for it, it would bring it more in line with EVE which went through something similar and came out the better for it. I don't expect it to happen but i agree. These tiers are poison for NPE and the game in general as all it does is make the next last tier irrelevant if you want to be competitive. It artificially inflates the inventory with "passing by" stuff that no one really wants to use and most can't even affort to use because they need to have constant high performance in their environment.
I can't fathom why CCP went with these stupid tiers in dust while they are right effin' now working hard on removing this braindead concept from EVE. |
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