DUST Search - Buff armor suits HP by 30%

Cosgar wrote:

Daxxis KANNAH wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

You're both right. Armor tankers should have a higher base HP and some degree of base armor regen, maybe 2/3/5HP/s for STD/ADV/Proto. But overall, they need something to make them a viable choice over shields without trying to simply emulate them. That's why resistance plating and armor related bonuses would make sense. Face it, shield tankers armor tank better than armor tankers.

Or maybe the armor suits get a built in hardener so you dont mess with weapon ratings but still have more defence against those weapons.

A Flaylock or MD would wreck a Minmatar or Caldari suit if the user fluxed them but if he did so to a Gallente or Amarr he would need to use more rounds.

Lol

- I guess its basically the same thing. Only realized as I wrote it.

But it would stop some of the QQ from just seeing a higher value and then wanting it the same way for shields.

Yeah, exactly. Everyone is so obsessed with buffer tanking that it's ridiculous. My go-to ADV logi has ~200/200 shield/armor with 25/17 HP regen and 0 movement penalty. I take a hit, look seriously wounded when I retreat, but by the time someone turns the corner to finish me off, I'm already at full HP with the business end of a breach MD in their face. Buffer tanking is highly overrated.


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BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 821	Posted - 2013.07.22 11:56:00 - [1] - Quote Armor suits need to have higher HP than Shield suits due to the fact that there will be more weapons to kill armor than to kill shields, and the fact that losing shields doesnt kill you is an advantage in of itself. When comparing a Caldari and a Gallente suit (easiest suits to compare) when both have the same module, or the same module focus, the Gallente should have 30% higher HP to compensate for the majority of guns, and all high damage guns, having a death warrant against him. The problem with giving armor more HP is how can it be applied, it could be through modules, base HP, or a bonus to modules, the truth is none of these will work by themselves and only a combination of 2 will work. Buffing modules by themselves is just a buff to everysuit so it makes no difference at all, except when a armor suit uses his extra slot for armor which currently only gives him about 70 higher HP with complex modules. Giving higher base HP is slightly negated when modules are applied although its the best single option, and buffing modules with a bonus would require losing a bonus or a SP sink. Also a good option would be giving all suits passive armor repair, thus freeing up 1 slot for the Armor suits and giving us higher base armor HP, around 150-250. Shield killers (Total of 9) Assault rifle Shotgun Plasma cannon Ion pistol Heavy weapon 110/90 Scrambler rifle Scrambler pistol Laser rifle Heavy weapon 120/80 Armor killers ( Total of 12) SMG HMG Combat rifle Precision rifle 95/110 Rail rifle Sniper rifle Forge Gun Magsec SMG Bolt pistol 90/110 Flaylock Mass driver Grenades 70/130 Did not include RE and flux because they both affect suits equally, flux grenades can be used in conjuction with MD, or flaylock to kill any suit. As you can see there are 1.3x more weapons to kill armor, 6 of these armor killers actually exploit armor lower speed, so they do more damage than what is said. These weapons are both the SMGs, the HMG, and all 3 explosive weapons.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 821	Posted - 2013.07.22 12:06:00 - [2] - Quote Chris F2112 wrote: A nerf to flaylocks will do much to help armor buffs. And grenades do make a bit imbalanced since most people use locus. The bonus to grenades needs to be evened out a bit for sure. Although evening out grenades is a really good option it would also remove counters to armor.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 821	Posted - 2013.07.22 12:12:00 - [3] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: I always thought it was silly to have the numbers between armor and shield so close together when armor doesn't get the same advantages as shields like fast regeneration and no speed penalty, as well as other factors like most weapons that dish out more damage to armor are splash damage making it hard to avoid while most weapons that dish out more damage to shields tend to overheat making it hard to shoot. All of this, yet when you look at the Gallente and Caldari suits it's perfectly flipped 120 armor 210 shield 210 armor 120 shield Even the armor modules do not give enough extra HP for all the inherent disadvantages of armor tanking. I was thinking something more like buffing the HP of all armor modules by 50%, but 30% may be enough. Buffing modules by 30% wont as well since any suit can equip armor modules and thus the buff is negated slightly.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 821	Posted - 2013.07.22 12:39:00 - [4] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I agree that armor needs a buff, but simply adding a larger buffer isn't going to be the best strategy in the long run. Shields can buffer, regen, and passive tank all at once, armor has to choose between regen and buffer tanking, sacrificing one for the other. Armor needs more tanking options like energized plating. This is why armor needs passive armor repair, that way repair modules are a choice not a requirement. Energized playing is good but would only work in the high slots.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 823	Posted - 2013.07.22 15:40:00 - [5] - Quote RuckingFetard wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Cosgar wrote: I agree that armor needs a buff, but simply adding a larger buffer isn't going to be the best strategy in the long run. Shields can buffer, regen, and passive tank all at once, armor has to choose between regen and buffer tanking, sacrificing one for the other. Armor needs more tanking options like energized plating. This is why armor needs passive armor repair, that way repair modules are a choice not a requirement. Energized playing is good but would only work in the high slots. Disagree armor should be different from shields and NOT some wannabe shield half-brid. Which is why even I propose higher base armor stats on the armor tanking suits A passive armor repair not higher than 5 is no where near what shield gets for free. It just allows for more freedom when building your suit, having no armor repair forces us to lose a slot in order to survive shield doesn't even need regulators and rechargers those are just the cherry on top. Even 5 HP/s is nowhere near enough, at 5 HP/s it takes 1 minute 40 seconds to heal a decently tanked suit, and even then most armor suits can't even get 500 armor. On the other hand a decently shield tanked suit takes 26 seconds to recharge the same amount of HP and doesn't even require a module to do so!
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 823	Posted - 2013.07.22 18:04:00 - [6] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: This would give my proto fit 1088 armor, I approve of this message. Also, forge gun isn't anti armor, it's anti shield. Most of that HP will be chewed through by a well placed locus I am going by the list CCP gave earlier this month.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 824	Posted - 2013.07.22 18:15:00 - [7] - Quote Mintqueer wrote: Nerf their base shields by 30% and their movement speed by 30% Armor suits?
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 828	Posted - 2013.07.22 18:25:00 - [8] - Quote Also just tested it and forge guns do 90% damage to shields and 110% to armor, was very hard to test could only do it with splash damage. Although a tanked shield suit can easily survive 1 forge gun shot, not so much for an armor suit.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 828	Posted - 2013.07.22 18:27:00 - [9] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Is this true on the weapons? Why wouldnt a Sniper and Rail Rifle clean up shield tankers? Just asking as I havent seen any numbers According to CCP and efficiency ratings in game it is true.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 830	Posted - 2013.07.22 19:08:00 - [10] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Cosgar wrote: You're both right. Armor tankers should have a higher base HP and some degree of base armor regen, maybe 2/3/5HP/s for STD/ADV/Proto. But overall, they need something to make them a viable choice over shields without trying to simply emulate them. That's why resistance plating and armor related bonuses would make sense. Face it, shield tankers armor tank better than armor tankers. Or maybe the armor suits get a built in hardener so you dont mess with weapon ratings but still have more defence against those weapons. A Flaylock or MD would wreck a Minmatar or Caldari suit if the user fluxed them but if he did so to a Gallente or Amarr he would need to use more rounds. - I guess its basically the same thing. Only realized as I wrote it. But it would stop some of the QQ from just seeing a higher value and then wanting it the same way for shields. Yeah, exactly. Everyone is so obsessed with buffer tanking that it's ridiculous. My go-to ADV logi has ~200/200 shield/armor with 25/17 HP regen and 0 movement penalty. I take a hit, look seriously wounded when I retreat, but by the time someone turns the corner to finish me off, I'm already at full HP with the business end of a breach MD in their face. Buffer tanking is highly overrated. I bet flaylocks have parties with you.

BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 833	Posted - 2013.07.23 02:04:00 - [11] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Note my idea is not regen but % reduction of damage done - Gallente / Amarr armour better than others. That way Shield tankers could never benefit from this which is what I keep hearing as a major complaint. They cant make it too strong though because then Gallente maybe Amarr have to lose a high slot Yes buffing plates or adding new plates benefits everyone, with the exception of shield modules which are useless for armor tanks.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 838	Posted - 2013.07.23 11:36:00 - [12] - Quote Bump.