DUST Search - The BUG that will become a nerf

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

Quote:

[BUG] Vehicle armor reps repair 3x what they should https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90289&find=unread
Status: A defect on this has been reported and a fix planned for in a future update.

So according to CCP all armor reppers have been working at x3 the rep rate and this is a bug

Take the top armor rep - 414 x5 = 2070 repped in 15seconds

Basic swarms do 120% damage against armor which turns out to be 1584 per volley not including any damage mods on, so 2 volleys wipes out the rep completely plus add in the ability to lock on fairly quickly and the missiles which bend around cover on a regular basis

Likewise AV nades, packed AV 1200damage base but its explosive so add another 20% on top which makes its 1440 per nade so 3 is 4320 and they never miss and are quickly thrown and the damage is instant

Even basic FG 80% damage is just under 1k damage which is more than the rep rate

The rep rate is 414 per 3 seconds which is very slow while the AV damage can cause 3times that at a basic level within a second

The general fit for the madrugar not including turrets or high slots just for the tank is 1 PG extender, 2 Caraspace armor hardners, Best heavy rep and the 180poly plate which gives with max skills a tank of 6753 i think and around 50% resistances

Even with both resistances on the basic AV weapons are able to still do more damage than the rep can recover

Really the rep should stay as it is and for shield boosters increase that by 2x the rep rate and up its passive recharge

This seems to be the final straw for many pilots

CCP is killing off vehicles

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Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 696	Posted - 2013.07.21 14:34:00 - [1] - Quote Quote: [BUG] Vehicle armor reps repair 3x what they should https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90289&find=unread Status: A defect on this has been reported and a fix planned for in a future update. So according to CCP all armor reppers have been working at x3 the rep rate and this is a bug But the problem here is that 'bug' has been in since the game 1st started, everyone assumed that this is how the armor repper works No one ever complained about it (maybe apart from shield tankers) but it was assumed that it repped more because armor doesnt regen and majority of AV hurts armor more and to an extent even small arms fire and normal grenades cause damage to armor Over the builds vehicles got nerfed around 4 builds straight while on the otherhand AV got buffed 4 builds straight while still having access to adv/proto AV and vehicle pilots having to make do with basic vehicles and its varients and as of late even losing the most advanced tanks while skills have been removed or even stealth changed without any notice This 'bug fix' could be the killing blow for the last vehicles which are able to stand upto current levels of AV Take the top armor rep - 414 x5 = 2070 repped in 15seconds Now lets look at AV Basic swarms do 120% damage against armor which turns out to be 1584 per volley not including any damage mods on, so 2 volleys wipes out the rep completely plus add in the ability to lock on fairly quickly and the missiles which bend around cover on a regular basis Likewise AV nades, packed AV 1200damage base but its explosive so add another 20% on top which makes its 1440 per nade so 3 is 4320 and they never miss and are quickly thrown and the damage is instant Even basic FG 80% damage is just under 1k damage which is more than the rep rate The rep rate is 414 per 3 seconds which is very slow while the AV damage can cause 3times that at a basic level within a second By the time the rep is done the tank has took more damage than the rep can repair and thensome more damage on top The general fit for the madrugar not including turrets or high slots just for the tank is 1 PG extender, 2 Caraspace armor hardners, Best heavy rep and the 180poly plate which gives with max skills a tank of 6753 i think and around 50% resistances Even with both resistances on the basic AV weapons are able to still do more damage than the rep can recover The 3x rep we currently have lets us be able to move in and actively tank damage from AV for 15seconds, its useful for coming out a tank battle alive or backing up infantry where hard hitting AV nades are but more importantly it gives us a chance to survive and run away from adv/proto AV which can dish out 6k damage in 2 volleys or 3 nades Add in mulitiple basic AV and the tank will be dead alot quicker than it is now that is if one doesnt do the job because if the change comes all basic AV at a standard level has the power to deal more damage than the rep can handle The days of asking tanks to back up infantry are gone, armor used to be good at it but not with this change, maybe shield can take over but even adv/proto AV which damage armor more still hurts shield and hits hard while the FG just rips it in half In PC matches maybe tanks will fight other tanks but essentially no need to use a tank when you can have an assault guy who also has a proto swarm to swap out to or carrys AV nades What can CCP do? if its a bug they will want to fix it but it basically kills off all vehicles or the ones remaining If they go on and do fix it will we get better reppers for both shield and armor since they stop at lvl3 and same with other mods which stop at lvl3? Is ther going to be a new tank with better resistances or will we get the pilot suit with the place holder skills or 50% cooldown on mods? I think they will change the rep but then we still have to wait to 1.4 for the supposed vehicle patch which means a month n half with gimped vehicles I havnt even touched on dropships mainly because they are bad to begin with and the rep change just makes it worse for armor Really the rep should stay as it is and for shield boosters increase that by 2x the rep rate and up its passive recharge Vehicle pilots have been able to adapt with skill removal and changes, changes to the vehicle and reduction of PG, lack of a lock button or kick button, FG doing more damage than vehicle mounted railguns, reduction of resistances, changes of mods, increase of turret prices, invisible swarms and corner bending missiles, AV seeking nades, loss of vehicles like the surya/sagaris and the introduction of the milita enforcers and much more This seems to be the final straw for many pilots CCP is killing off vehicles
Xero The Mishima Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 219	Posted - 2013.07.21 14:36:00 - [2] - Quote Mine has been working just fine. 5armor a second.
Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 235	Posted - 2013.07.21 14:47:00 - [3] - Quote good post, I have to agree I got a few armor tankers in my clan / squad daily and its also logical the way it is, make it stronger then the shields (see post for the why, don`t want to sound like a broken record here).
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 848	Posted - 2013.07.21 14:51:00 - [4] - Quote They won't be able to balance AV until they make these changes. Don't forget that what you have at the moment is also not the end-game for tankers. You currently have no proto tanks. Although I think it's ridiculous you don't, you still have to factor that into your view of current tanking.
Duck Drahko DUST University Ivy League 41	Posted - 2013.07.21 15:18:00 - [5] - Quote Well, I was about to post a really grumpy reply, but that probably wouldn't be fair to you. I've just been a bit annoyed already by the community's illogical reaction to this simple one-liner, when I saw another of these threads pop up. A bug is a bug, and it needs to be fixed. Full stop. There is no maybe, no what-ifs, a bug is always going to be fixed. Whether that means that the description will be changed to match the functionality, or the functionality to match the description, or a combination of both, it doesn't matter. Saying "it's going to be fixed" is NOT saying anything about the nature of the fix. Second, "future update" means 1.4 earliest, since 1.3 is already frozen. This means that it will happen in conjunction with the general vehicle balancing pass. So there's no "month and a half with gimped vehicles" on the horizon. There is going to be time to judge the eventual solution, but the time is not now. And it does not matter what CCP has done in the past or whether you think they can be trusted with a simple bug fix, none of that is relevant to this. Ok maybe this was still a bit grumpy.
Jaqen Morghalis Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 193	Posted - 2013.07.21 15:23:00 - [6] - Quote Duck Drahko wrote: Well, I was about to post a really grumpy reply, but that probably wouldn't be fair to you. I've just been a bit annoyed already by the community's illogical reaction to this simple one-liner, when I saw another of these threads pop up. A bug is a bug, and it needs to be fixed. Full stop. There is no maybe, no what-ifs, a bug is always going to be fixed. Whether that means that the description will be changed to match the functionality, or the functionality to match the description, or a combination of both, it doesn't matter. Saying "it's going to be fixed" is NOT saying anything about the nature of the fix. Second, "future update" means 1.4 earliest, since 1.3 is already frozen. This means that it will happen in conjunction with the general vehicle balancing pass. So there's no "month and a half with gimped vehicles" on the horizon. There is going to be time to judge the eventual solution, but the time is not now. And it does not matter what CCP has done in the past or whether you think they can be trusted with a simple bug fix, none of that is relevant to this. Ok maybe this was still a bit grumpy. No, that was just about perfect.
Grimmiers 0uter.Heaven EoN. 229	Posted - 2013.07.21 15:33:00 - [7] - Quote Well apparently 1.4 is going to change up vehicles a bit, so we'll have to wait till then to see how everyone matches up.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 697	Posted - 2013.07.21 15:56:00 - [8] - Quote Duck Drahko wrote: Well, I was about to post a really grumpy reply, but that probably wouldn't be fair to you. I've just been a bit annoyed already by the community's illogical reaction to this simple one-liner, when I saw another of these threads pop up. A bug is a bug, and it needs to be fixed. Full stop. There is no maybe, no what-ifs, a bug is always going to be fixed. Whether that means that the description will be changed to match the functionality, or the functionality to match the description, or a combination of both, it doesn't matter. Saying "it's going to be fixed" is NOT saying anything about the nature of the fix. Second, "future update" means 1.4 earliest, since 1.3 is already frozen. This means that it will happen in conjunction with the general vehicle balancing pass. So there's no "month and a half with gimped vehicles" on the horizon. There is going to be time to judge the eventual solution, but the time is not now. And it does not matter what CCP has done in the past or whether you think they can be trusted with a simple bug fix, none of that is relevant to this. Ok maybe this was still a bit grumpy. A bug is a bug Its been this way from the beginning of the game for well over a year and now its only just discovered? The fixing of the bug will decimate the remaining vehicles, dropshisp are not used and now tanks are looking to be made obsolete All that is left is the LLAV This is AR514 and it always has been I have nearly 19mil in SP and i could specced out into proto logi/assault/weapon and mods and even AV i bet and i would be able to take on any problem in any match If the repper gets 'fixed' then AV needs to be cut down simple as because basic AV is enough to make the repper useless and has enough to whack it with ease The armor tank will become like the shield version, rarely used and if it is all forms of popular AV like the av nades and swarms will cripple it before it gets out of the redline
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 699	Posted - 2013.07.21 16:41:00 - [9] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: Well apparently 1.4 is going to change up vehicles a bit, so we'll have to wait till then to see how everyone matches up. Well currently the tread with vehicles is to change them for the worse
TunRa The Vanguardians 11	Posted - 2013.07.21 17:11:00 - [10] - Quote Xero The Mishima wrote: Mine has been working just fine. 5armor a second. If you're reffering to dropsuit rep mod then you're in the wrong post.

Blammmo Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 152	Posted - 2013.07.21 17:16:00 - [11] - Quote Time to put the madruger in the garage and start driving my logi LAV again A tankers gotta do what a tankers gotta do
Pvt Numnutz BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 85	Posted - 2013.07.21 17:34:00 - [12] - Quote Well maybe if people used logistics lav's for what they were meant to be used for then tanks would be more useful? Just saying
CoD isAIDS Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2013.07.21 18:44:00 - [13] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: They won't be able to balance AV until they make these changes. Don't forget that what you have at the moment is also not the end-game for tankers. You currently have no proto tanks. Although I think it's ridiculous you don't, you still have to factor that into your view of current tanking. So if they decide to touch AV at all after nerf-hammering tanks, AV is going to get the nerf hammer as well, big time. If CCP is intelligent... LOL AV will require thinking, maybe.
CoD isAIDS Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2013.07.21 19:01:00 - [14] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Well maybe if people used logistics lav's for what they were meant to be used for then tanks would be more useful? Just saying Have you tried using the remote modules on them?
Nitrobeacon Freek Coalition 33	Posted - 2013.07.21 19:21:00 - [15] - Quote You say that (This 'bug fix' could be the killing blow for the last vehicles which are able to stand upto current levels of AV). So basically what you are saying is that HAVs had the ability to withstand AV firepower, then why did you keep supporting HAV buffs when it was able to have a fair strength against AV like you say in that quotation.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 956	Posted - 2013.07.21 20:09:00 - [16] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Quote: [BUG] Vehicle armor reps repair 3x what they should https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=90289&find=unread Status: A defect on this has been reported and a fix planned for in a future update. So according to CCP all armor reppers have been working at x3 the rep rate and this is a bug Take the top armor rep - 414 x5 = 2070 repped in 15seconds Basic swarms do 120% damage against armor which turns out to be 1584 per volley not including any damage mods on, so 2 volleys wipes out the rep completely plus add in the ability to lock on fairly quickly and the missiles which bend around cover on a regular basis Likewise AV nades, packed AV 1200damage base but its explosive so add another 20% on top which makes its 1440 per nade so 3 is 4320 and they never miss and are quickly thrown and the damage is instant Even basic FG 80% damage is just under 1k damage which is more than the rep rate The rep rate is 414 per 3 seconds which is very slow while the AV damage can cause 3times that at a basic level within a second The general fit for the madrugar not including turrets or high slots just for the tank is 1 PG extender, 2 Caraspace armor hardners, Best heavy rep and the 180poly plate which gives with max skills a tank of 6753 i think and around 50% resistances Even with both resistances on the basic AV weapons are able to still do more damage than the rep can recover Really the rep should stay as it is and for shield boosters increase that by 2x the rep rate and up its passive recharge This seems to be the final straw for many pilots CCP is killing off vehicles ok first yes the math on reps are right. second your math on resistance is wrong( for 2 with 10% skill) its 42% with 3 its 50% third you math for av is wrong, even for proto SL. the repper repairs more then a (single) proto SL volley when factoring in 2 resistance mod and 5 damage mods w/ max skills on the SL. this puts them on par shield booster vs proto SL. i have been thinking about this for a while and this puts armor and shields closer but further unbalances AV and vehicles.
Pvt Numnutz BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 89	Posted - 2013.07.21 20:37:00 - [17] - Quote CoD isAIDS wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Well maybe if people used logistics lav's for what they were meant to be used for then tanks would be more useful? Just saying Have you tried using the remote modules on them? Yes, infact I've been in a squad with two tankers and a logi lav that was doing its job and it was amazing to see how survivable the team was. That's why I laugh at people who only use it as a murder taxi. They don't even know what its used for.
Gogo O'Dell Psygod9 RISE of LEGION 2	Posted - 2013.07.21 20:41:00 - [18] - Quote Just give up. THe ARs wanted the AV to OHK us and now they do. I left. ALl the greats left. You should, too, and let the av run around without any tanks or dropships to kill. then the ars will nerf the forges bc theyre good at killing them. just let it happen. we cant fight it, anymore
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 704	Posted - 2013.07.22 09:30:00 - [19] - Quote Gogo O'Dell wrote: Just give up. THe ARs wanted the AV to OHK us and now they do. I left. ALl the greats left. You should, too, and let the av run around without any tanks or dropships to kill. then the ars will nerf the forges bc theyre good at killing them. just let it happen. we cant fight it, anymore I dont want to give up I want to tank I dont want to tryhard with an AR its too easy, i dont want to go AV because its too easy Lately ive been playing BF3 just so i can tank, the tanks are still **** in that game but have a 3man crew or at least 2 and your good to go but the same thing happened in BF3 Infantry cried and vehicles became next to useless half the time, RPG can OHD you
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3359	Posted - 2013.07.22 10:58:00 - [20] - Quote So when the majority of infantry players are fine with armour tanks, they're getting nerfed? And while shield tanks are very obviously in need of major buffs to even stand up to a casual attempt at AV, they get nothing? Looks like LLAVs are still the way to go.



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