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Sylwester Dziewiecki
BetaMax. CRONOS.
116
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Posted - 2013.07.21 15:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Vickers S Grunt wrote:Recently i acquired the ability to seriously hurt tanks buy skilling in to the proto swarm launcher and have finally been able to start making tanks explode on a regular basis .
I tried all the levels of swarm launcher from milita to proto and i can tell u that until u reach proto your efforts are mostly wasted unless the tank is failfit or just dumb.
Now it is possible for me to solo most tanks if i have a firing solution for long enough with the proto swarms .
Tankers will tell u that one AV should not be able to kill a similar level tank alone but i am calling bullshit on this why should i not be able to take out a tank if i am skilled and fitted in to it ?
Lets look at some of the arguments:
The tank takes millions more skill points than the AV = false Yes while the single weapon takes less than the whole tank this is not the complete picture after all my swarm launcher is not going to fire its self. I need maximum core and fitting skills to ensure i can fit the best weapon for the job i need suit skills to give me the hit points to make it to that perfect firing angle as well as proto sidearm so give me a better chance of getting threw any infantry standing in my way .
I have 17 million skill points and all of those except the few million in other light weapons can be directly of use fighting tanks .
Next argument
Tanks cost millions of isk each they should be able to survive multiple battles and mow down infantry = false Tanks cost a lot of isk true but the benefits from being surrounded buy a metal boxes are large . For a start only a small percentage of infantry can hurt u from range. It might seem to u like every other guy is rocking av but take it from a infantryman there are still a lot more AR's out there than forge guns and swarms and of those guys even less have bothered to train for proto av . Tanks murder regular infantry and are invulnerable to non specialized weapons with the ability to generate staggering amounts of war points and a GTFO ability that most grunts can only dream of .
Now these tanks are not just evaporating at the mere sight of my proto swarm with 2x complex damage mods some are even able to fully tank my damage for a limited time and any good tank will take at least 5-8 volleys .
So how much more damage should a tank be able to take ? if i am using proto with 2x complex how much more would it take a militia guy ? 10 volleys 15 ? 20 ! Yeh yeh i hear u say " but that's militia gear against advanced tank " Ok so it should take 4-5 mags of directs hits from a militia AR to down a protobear ??? after all his gear might be 10 times more expensive than the militia guy ( just like a top tank might be 10 times more expensive than my proto AV fit ).In dust u pay a lot to go up in levels for little gain for example a gek costs 7 or 8 times more than a standard for only 5% more damage .Tanks just follow this trend
Arguments like this about the level of gear belong in games like WOW yes being higher level should give u a advantage but it should not make u invulnerable to lower levels ( It never did in eve ).
Take into consideration that we do not have ADV, PRO and RAR HAV in game yet, and vehicle are meant to be destroy be squad, not a ssingle guy with proto stuff, and that we(Armor HAV) have currentlly buged AR with repair 3x more HP. Tanks are not fine. |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
BetaMax. CRONOS.
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 17:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Skyhound Solbrave wrote:Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Take into consideration that we do not have ADV, PRO and RAR HAV in game yet, and vehicle are meant to be destroy be squad, not a ssingle guy with proto stuff, and that we(Armor HAV) have currentlly buged AR with repair 3x more HP. Tanks are not fine. You see, it should NOT take a whole squad to take down one guy in a tank. It just isn't fair that one person should be able to steamroll a team just because he paid more for it. It's more reasonable for one fully equipped and specced AVer to take down one fully equipped and specced Tanker. Your argument is invalid. One guy in tank is not able to steamroll a team. Solo-Militia-Swarm will not kill Madruger, Whole team of Militia Swarms will kill it for sure, that's why Madruger require team to work with him, scout him, counter-snipe rooftops FGunners, inform him about hostile movement, other vehicle on battle - Madruger Pilot can not do that all by himself - thats why he need team and team needs him. You telling me that one infantry guy should be able to kill that Madruger with infantry weapon, and you dare to call it ballance? Separate your filling from sense of this sentence. |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
BetaMax. CRONOS.
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 17:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:The only thing I'm understanding from avers is they feel they shouldn't have to use teamwork but a tank should have to, more sp more isk yet you think it needs teamwork and av shouldn't...lameee, ccp if you read this is there plans for naval combat? They can't even get ground vehicles to work, they've still got aerial vehicles to sort and you want stuff on the water? Out! I don't like your tone, I know but I was jw hell maybe they'll surprise us, doubt it though I'm around for some time(here and on eve). From reading other topics I can tell you that 'water' is not planned for now, core mechanics and racial variants of stuff are. CCP want to make water, a good looking water and everything that is connect to it but they don't resources to do so(for now). Not extinguishing your enthusiasm I also have to tell that a year from today everything can change. |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
BetaMax. CRONOS.
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 22:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Skyhound Solbrave wrote:Wait a minute so if one tank spawns, almost half the team has to ignore the objective to take it down? Two tanks mean the whole team has to devote themselves to AV? Three tanks.... That's not even counting the other 85% of the tank using team that still get to use their normal fits to defend the tank Who forbids you to have tanks in your team in case when enemy will try to deploy their, or use dropsuits with AV grenades/mines on it when it's comes to very important match?
Skyhound Solbrave wrote:Is that what you pilots call balance? Sorry, but I played the.build when tanks were op. I would really like to avoid that time. That had to be different game, because I don't remember this OP build, I'm glad you are playing Dust with us all now :). In fact I remember the time when Sagaris required 7 shoots from proto AFG with full dmg fit, and for some reason people was calling them 'OP' while I was solo-killing them for most of the time, and I had a lot of fun with this.
Skyhound Solbrave wrote:Pilots need to chill and wait for ADV and Pro tanks. Even with the tanks we have now; one that is properly fitted with a proper support team (gunners + bodyguards to take out AV) can be incredibly deadly. It seems like Tankers just want to solo pubstomps. Solo-Proto SL is killing Madruger with proto tank if his AR in on cooldown in 2-3 waves - Bodyguards/Gunners may kill Swarmer but not Swarms Heads coming to HAV, there is not fancy smoke screen, missile detection system, counter-missile-defense, or system that jamm they tracking systems. If HAV is hit on the top of turret, detections goes crazy, and you have no idea from with direction you just get hitted. So for most of the time instead of running away from the dangerous enemy you rushing right into him. What's worse sometimes Swarms and Forge projectile are invisible - no visual effects that you can see are apply to them( except those on your tank - we can see explosion on 3th person camera, but we cannot tell what are the source of it "is it grenade or swarms?" running through your head). If we get hitted by something like that, team is our eye's, and it's because different weapons have different draw distance and our weapons(pilots) can not see whole map.
Tankers don't want to solo pubstomps, they want to be balance with enemy, they want to be able to see them same as they can see HAV. They want eventually die but after heavy fighting that required planning, teamwork, cooperation. They want engagement on their terms equality as everyone else, not on terms of guy who is invisible because game is buged.
STD HAV die after 2-3 voles of PRO SL - fine I can live with it, but give me PRO HAV that will last longer, and bring balance to the game, or give me modules/mechanics that will protect me against that PRO SL - thats what essentially decent pilot want. |
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