Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Thang Bausch
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 15:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
I can handle the many, many flaws of this game because it has some unique characteristics that have enticed me to play an online fps for the first time in my life. I hear everyone whinning about respecs and nerfing and op, but i don't think these are killing the game. a f2p game needs a large player base to survive. For all the arrogant, look down your nose at the 'noobs' talk on the forums, all the vet players need the noobs to stick with this game.
Many noobs are going to leave because of the poor fps mechanics, redundant maps and battle types, and lack of pve. I am not concerned about those who leave for the poor fps mechanics because this game will never be able to beat the fps big players. I've played a bit of CoD and Halo and Battlefield and the mechanics are leagues ahead, but I never wanted to play those games because they were hollow to me. As a product manager with 10 years experience, I can say Dust needs to focus on its differentiators (designing fittings, skill tree progression, eve universe, etc.) and mitigate the right weaknesses. Noobs like me don't care about respecs (one way or the other), and nerfing and op. And if enough noobs don't turn into vets, the player based will never grow to a viable level for this game to survive.
I've seen some great suggestions on other forumns (sadly not often on the official dust ones) for how to improve the redundant maps/battles, add some really interesting pve, and tie into the eve universe better for noobs and vets alike. These suggestions would be great for keeping noobs in the game like me that want something different but are not hard core gamers or hard core online fps players.
But the number one thing that needs to change to stop the noob churn is pub stomping. I have only been playing 2 months now and cannot explain how frustrating it is to go into battles that are brutally lop-sided where one team has no perm squads and militia to basic gear and the other team is one or more perm squads and full out proto gear. I don't even like it when I am 'lucky' enough to be on the proto gear team. I want a challenge not a slaughter regardless of who is doing the slaughtering.
I want two basic settings for the public instant battles: no proto gear and no perm squads. That's it. I just want to skim off the top 20 odd percent of pub stomping. There will still be lots of lop sided battles, but not much outright pub stomping. For those of you who say things like "a really good player can still survive on basic gear", a game can't be designed just for the top 5% of skilled players. I'm not amazing at this game and probably never will be. I've got a job, a family and friends, but I still like to play video games 5-15 hours a week, have money to spend, and for the first time I found an online fps that actually interests me.
Better maps, okay quality pve and better tie ins to the eve universe would be great, but the thing that will keep me playing after my current booster expires is those two basic filters for the public battles. These two settings will also stop me from advising my friends and co-workers to avoid this game. I tell those people this game has potential, but unless they want to spend most of their time being completely slaughtered in 45 to 0 ambushes for the first 300+ hours of game play they should keep away from this game. And it's that word of mouth from noobs like me that is going to kill this game. Not because some of the vets left do to respec, op, nerfing, etc. This game will die because the noob churn steadily lowers not because people are staying but because no one is giving the game a try anymore.
So to all you vets that genuinely care about this game: push ccp to mitigate the pub stomping problem asap or better yet: stop knowingly pub stomping. Without some action by ccp or you, this game WILL die.
|
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2197
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 15:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
You are getting at some deeper points. Ironically, DUST was strongest at being unique a year ago and has receded into a below average shooter. Combat arms may be less grinding FFS. |
Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
96
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 16:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Why does everybody make it look like Gear is the problem? I just played a few rounds with free militia gear again and guess what? Scored first place on the leaderboard. In my experience pub stomping ONLY happens when there's a good squad in the enemy team. Doesn't matter how they are equipped. And this is the case in EVERY team based shooter. But Dust has the unique fitting system and suddenly everybody thinks he can deny that he's just too bad and just say that the fitting system is the cause for all of this and that the enemy team has only won because they have better gear.
No. No that's not the reason they won. The reason they won is that they played like a team in a team based shooter. Shocking, isn't it? You will ALWAYS encounter this problem. The only thing to make this less severe is a match making which preferably teams up corp-squads against other corp-squads. |
jgreen 1tc
R.I.f.t
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 16:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
As a new player as well, I feel completely misled. I thought this game valued teamwork, strategy, and dedication. What it seems to promote however is paying for gear and skills (not uncommon for f2p games), mass attacking with little focus on defense (in skirmish mode), and finding broken tactics that wipe out any need for strategy other than "kill them so they can't do what they want." The war academy is nothing like what you experience once you "graduate" to pub stomping. There is often times no need to be a dedicated support player like I would like to be. People just throw down a ton of drop uplinks for everyone to use and then go about running people over in LAVs or slaughtering the other team with expensive gear as a team. I agree that it sucks to be a part of the winning team.
I just wish they would do something that would entice people to focus on defending instead of just all out attack. |
Thang Bausch
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 16:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:Why does everybody make it look like Gear is the problem? I just played a few rounds with free militia gear again and guess what? Scored first place on the leaderboard. In my experience pub stomping ONLY happens when there's a good squad in the enemy team. Doesn't matter how they are equipped. And this is the case in EVERY team based shooter. But Dust has the unique fitting system and suddenly everybody thinks he can deny that he's just too bad and just say that the fitting system is the cause for all of this and that the enemy team has only won because they have better gear.
No. No that's not the reason they won. The reason they won is that they played like a team in a team based shooter. Shocking, isn't it? You will ALWAYS encounter this problem. The only thing to make this less severe is a match making which preferably teams up corp-squads against other corp-squads.
I agree to some degree. The corp squad (what i called perm squad in my original post) filter is the most important. I have been tracking my pub battles when possible before the game starts to see which side has corp squads. if one team has one or more and the other has none, consistently the one side wins. The game is a team player game, but not everyone can always play with the same people. I personally enjoy seeing a random group of people find some rhythm in a match.
The gear still makes a difference though. i have gone head to head with some characters where I am hitting them most of the time and their shield barely budges. When the kill screen comes up, it's always proto gear. At the end of the day, if someone has full proto gear and 15+ million skill points, and I have basic gear and 2 million skill points, I would have to be an amazing player and they would have to be mediocre. I don't think there are many mediocre players with full proto gear.
I don't mind having my *** handed to me by someone who is more skilled, but adding lop-sided gear to the equation turns a lop sided match into a pub stomping. it's the pub stomping, not the losing, i want to stop in the game so i enjoy the game enough to keep playing and encourage my friends to play. |
Severance Pay
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
783
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 16:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
ME!!! I AM KILLING THIS GA!E!! AND MY MISSION IS ALMOST COMP?ETE!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAA! |
Ansiiis The Trustworthy
WE ARE LEGENDS
148
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 16:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles.
Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing.
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Just to clarify by skill level I don't mean skill points, I mean actual battle effectiveness. In practical terms this could be due to your gear, your skill points, the design of your fittings or choice of weapons, whether you are playing in a squad, whether you use voice comms, whether you are using your preferred input device, how good your internet connection is, your situational awareness of the battle field, how good you are at aiming etc etc.
The true test of good matchmaking will be if the prediction on how effective you and your team will be against another can adapt to a lot of these difficult to track variables. Right now we are experimenting with a few different ways of doing this and the simulations are looking promising so far.
To the point about scaling rewards, we actually do adjust the reward payout based on the gear used in battle. This doesn't vary that much at the moment because we have quite mixed battles but in theory if the matchmaking can produce higher tier battles then I would expect to see higher tier payouts. This is something we will probably have to review once the new system is in place.
|
Jayquan18
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
102
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 16:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
32 players is killing the game,they need to increase the amount. Also so is the non connection with EVE and Dust. |
Thor McStrut
Reckoners
65
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 16:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thang Bausch wrote:
I agree to some degree. The corp squad (what i called perm squad in my original post) filter is the most important. I have been tracking my pub battles when possible before the game starts to see which side has corp squads. if one team has one or more and the other has none, consistently the one side wins. The game is a team player game, but not everyone can always play with the same people. I personally enjoy seeing a random group of people find some rhythm in a match.
The gear still makes a difference though. i have gone head to head with some characters where I am hitting them most of the time and their shield barely budges. When the kill screen comes up, it's always proto gear. At the end of the day, if someone has full proto gear and 15+ million skill points, and I have basic gear and 2 million skill points, I would have to be an amazing player and they would have to be mediocre. I don't think there are many mediocre players with full proto gear.
I don't mind having my *** handed to me by someone who is more skilled, but adding lop-sided gear to the equation turns a lop sided match into a pub stomping. it's the pub stomping, not the losing, i want to stop in the game so i enjoy the game enough to keep playing and encourage my friends to play.
While Corp squads can be great, it is hardly the defining factor. I've joined a squad of what seemed like randoms, but they are actually very good, and mesh well together. I've been on teams of what looked like complete randoms vs a team made up primarily 2-3 corps. We still won, because our squads worked better together.
Gear does matter. It should. As an "MMO" (sort of) in-game skills and gear make a difference. As a FPS, real skill is a requirement. The players with real skill will naturally get to better gear quicker. That's the nature of the beast.
A matchmaking system will be beneficial, but the only way to improve yourself is to play with others, and improve your coordination and teamwork to achieve objectives. The Acadamy is a great example of this. As a noob, you play well, and have fun. But you're playing mostly with other noobs. Graduate, and now you are playing with Vets. Were you killed by that Freedom MD or Duvolle TAC? Yes, but you were probably also out played tactically.
It really can't be said enough. If you want to play better, squad up and play with the same people as much as possible! |
Thang Bausch
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 18:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles.
Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing. CCP Nullarbor wrote:Just to clarify by skill level I don't mean skill points, I mean actual battle effectiveness. In practical terms this could be due to your gear, your skill points, the design of your fittings or choice of weapons, whether you are playing in a squad, whether you use voice comms, whether you are using your preferred input device, how good your internet connection is, your situational awareness of the battle field, how good you are at aiming etc etc.
The true test of good matchmaking will be if the prediction on how effective you and your team will be against another can adapt to a lot of these difficult to track variables. Right now we are experimenting with a few different ways of doing this and the simulations are looking promising so far.
To the point about scaling rewards, we actually do adjust the reward payout based on the gear used in battle. This doesn't vary that much at the moment because we have quite mixed battles but in theory if the matchmaking can produce higher tier battles then I would expect to see higher tier payouts. This is something we will probably have to review once the new system is in place.
Sounds good to me. Would be nice if people could scale their match making with slider, so if i wanted to be thrown into a tougher match i could. I do learn things from playing with and against better players. just don't want to do it all the time.
|
|
THEAMAZING POTHEAD
Pure Innocence.
111
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 18:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Definitely think a no-squad mix of game modes option in instant battles would be best, but CCP is adamant on their stupid matchmaking solution. MOAR GAME MODES? HOW DEER YOU! |
Thang Bausch
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 18:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:Thang Bausch wrote:
I agree to some degree. The corp squad (what i called perm squad in my original post) filter is the most important. I have been tracking my pub battles when possible before the game starts to see which side has corp squads. if one team has one or more and the other has none, consistently the one side wins. The game is a team player game, but not everyone can always play with the same people. I personally enjoy seeing a random group of people find some rhythm in a match.
The gear still makes a difference though. i have gone head to head with some characters where I am hitting them most of the time and their shield barely budges. When the kill screen comes up, it's always proto gear. At the end of the day, if someone has full proto gear and 15+ million skill points, and I have basic gear and 2 million skill points, I would have to be an amazing player and they would have to be mediocre. I don't think there are many mediocre players with full proto gear.
I don't mind having my *** handed to me by someone who is more skilled, but adding lop-sided gear to the equation turns a lop sided match into a pub stomping. it's the pub stomping, not the losing, i want to stop in the game so i enjoy the game enough to keep playing and encourage my friends to play.
While Corp squads can be great, it is hardly the defining factor. I've joined a squad of what seemed like randoms, but they are actually very good, and mesh well together. I've been on teams of what looked like complete randoms vs a team made up primarily 2-3 corps. We still won, because our squads worked better together. Gear does matter. It should. As an "MMO" (sort of) in-game skills and gear make a difference. As a FPS, real skill is a requirement. The players with real skill will naturally get to better gear quicker. That's the nature of the beast. A matchmaking system will be beneficial, but the only way to improve yourself is to play with others, and improve your coordination and teamwork to achieve objectives. The Acadamy is a great example of this. As a noob, you play well, and have fun. But you're playing mostly with other noobs. Graduate, and now you are playing with Vets. Were you killed by that Freedom MD or Duvolle TAC? Yes, but you were probably also out played tactically. It really can't be said enough. If you want to play better, squad up and play with the same people as much as possible!
I think i am getting close to the point where i want to squad up so I can learn better tactics and play better. Need to choose the role I want to play first. Finding a squad will be tricky. My KDR is horrible. The first month of my two months of playing was a slaughter and I refused to AFK even when half my team was sitting in the MCC. i just went to starter fits to save the isk. Those battles i would have 0 kills and 10+ deaths. not shocking when you are playing against seasoned vets with only half a team. My kdr is starting to inch itself up because most non-pubstomping battles i am in the .5 to 4.0 range, but one month of better (not great, but better) playing is not enough to erase the first month of being noob meat.
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
3121
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 18:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
You want to know what's killing this game? A bunch of topics about what's killing this game. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1748
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 18:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
I would agree that one of the problems is a lack of strategy and tactics even in Skirmish.
There's no incentive to defend a point that isn't being attacked because you don't get any WP's for it. Everyone runs to the front line so they can shoot someone in the face to get their 50 WP.
If you spend an entire match defending an objective, but don't manage to get a kill you get zero reward. Contributing to the "win" means nothing because it's not measured. Skirmish is just a disguised TDM.
The only mode where winning matters is PC, and that's only for the one percent of players. |
Thang Bausch
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 18:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:You want to know what's killing this game? A bunch of topics about what's killing this game.
Too true. have to admit i do regret the drama queen topic title. Wrote that after a couple of hours of getting pub stomped most of the time. The last battle I went against a team that had two prototype fitted tanks and a bunch of infantry in prototype gear. They knew how to play the map so well. It was like a noob meat factory. i think the ambush finished with 47 to 0.
I will say for the record that i do like this game. Despite the frustration of being noob meat, no tutorial, and no PvE to get used to the basics of the game, i am still playing and I still think about fits and tactics when i'm not playing. In short, the game has caught my imagination enough to outweigh the frustration.
I just hope ccp fixes the noob experience so more people get hooked while improving the vet experience so vets stay and come back. I want this game to succeed and meet its potential. You're right that framing my criticism so drama negative is not helping the problem. Explaining why (with some suggestions for how) something needs to be improved hopefully will. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2057
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 19:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
It's all about communication. If you got a squad of randoms with comms vs a squad of randoms without comms, chances are, the guys with comms are going to hammer the other squad. Only takes a squad of people on comms for the team to start shaping up, despite the fact most blueberries are idiots, they do have the capacity to follow and learn, some will even mimic you and may survive for a while. |
GTA-V FTW
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 19:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
No respecs are killing this game.
I demand a respec! |
Thang Bausch
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 19:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:It's all about communication. If you got a squad of randoms with comms vs a squad of randoms without comms, chances are, the guys with comms are going to hammer the other squad. Only takes a squad of people on comms for the team to start shaping up, despite the fact most blueberries are idiots, they do have the capacity to follow and learn, some will even mimic you and may survive for a while.
That reminds me of the first couple of weeks I played. I focused a lot on always following the group (or in the absence of one, the closest person nearby). At least then I could drop a nanohive for a couple of people and get a few kill assists while seeing what other people did.
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
3128
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 19:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
GTA-V FTW wrote:No respecs are killing this game. I demand a respec! Like everyone getting a chance to screw up their skills is going to breathe life into the game. People need to stop using that argument. Power Creep is the real culprit right now. Everyone runs prototype and since PRO > ADV >STD the other two tiers are devalued, which eliminates incentive to use cheaper suits and leads to new players getting stomped into uninstalling once they get out of the academy. The suit tiers need to become incomparables that have more options instead of just being better. |
Duck Drahko
DUST University Ivy League
67
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 19:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:Why does everybody make it look like Gear is the problem? I just played a few rounds with free militia gear again and guess what? Scored first place on the leaderboard. In my experience pub stomping ONLY happens when there's a good squad in the enemy team. Doesn't matter how they are equipped. And this is the case in EVERY team based shooter. But Dust has the unique fitting system and suddenly everybody thinks he can deny that he's just too bad and just say that the fitting system is the cause for all of this and that the enemy team has only won because they have better gear.
No. No that's not the reason they won. The reason they won is that they played like a team in a team based shooter. Shocking, isn't it? You will ALWAYS encounter this problem. The only thing to make this less severe is a match making which preferably teams up corp-squads against other corp-squads.
I agree, the squads are a much bigger factor than proto gear in my view. But an experienced squad that is fully decked in proto gear (and they usually are) just escalates the issue.
Consider this: In any other competitive shooter, putting an experienced clan up against a bunch of random players would be considered a ridiculous idea. And that's with equal gear.
Right now Dust just isn't different enough from a normal shooter to make this idea any less ridiculous. PC yes, but not for instant battles.
While future updates might change this situation somehow, I really hope that we will see some kind of hotfix before that. Even if it's as simple as "no squads in Ambush OMS" or whatever... I am sure there is something that everyone could live with. |
|
Provolonee
Undefined Risk DARKSTAR ARMY
105
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 19:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
It's not really a "team" game. It's a squad game. We don't even share tac-net out side of your squad. Squad orders are also not visible to your team.
Just sharing those highlighted red dots with your "team" would go a long way to help people not in a top squad.
Making drop links usable by the team was a step in the right direction. We need to remember one thing about new players. They don't have squads, or corps, or buddy's yet. |
Thang Bausch
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 19:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Duck Drahko wrote:Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:Why does everybody make it look like Gear is the problem? I just played a few rounds with free militia gear again and guess what? Scored first place on the leaderboard. In my experience pub stomping ONLY happens when there's a good squad in the enemy team. Doesn't matter how they are equipped. And this is the case in EVERY team based shooter. But Dust has the unique fitting system and suddenly everybody thinks he can deny that he's just too bad and just say that the fitting system is the cause for all of this and that the enemy team has only won because they have better gear.
No. No that's not the reason they won. The reason they won is that they played like a team in a team based shooter. Shocking, isn't it? You will ALWAYS encounter this problem. The only thing to make this less severe is a match making which preferably teams up corp-squads against other corp-squads. I agree, the squads are a much bigger factor than proto gear in my view. But an experienced squad that is fully decked in proto gear (and they usually are) just escalates the issue. Consider this: In any other competitive shooter, putting an experienced clan up against a bunch of random players would be considered a ridiculous idea. And that's with equal gear. Right now Dust just isn't different enough from a normal shooter to make this idea any less ridiculous. PC yes, but not for instant battles. While future updates might change this situation somehow, I really hope that we will see some kind of hotfix before that. Even if it's as simple as "no squads in Ambush OMS" or whatever... I am sure there is something that everyone could live with.
That's why i suggested the two basic filters. it wouldn't necessarily solve the problem, but would hopefully be a relatively inexpensive stop gap or workaround until ccp can put together a more permanent solution.
|
GoD-NoVa
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
356
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 19:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Thang Bausch wrote:I can handle the many, many flaws of this game because it has some unique characteristics that have enticed me to play an online fps for the first time in my life. I hear everyone whinning about respecs and nerfing and op, but i don't think these are killing the game. a f2p game needs a large player base to survive. For all the arrogant, look down your nose at the 'noobs' talk on the forums, all the vet players need the noobs to stick with this game.
Many noobs are going to leave because of the poor fps mechanics, redundant maps and battle types, and lack of pve. I am not concerned about those who leave for the poor fps mechanics because this game will never be able to beat the fps big players. I've played a bit of CoD and Halo and Battlefield and the mechanics are leagues ahead, but I never wanted to play those games because they were hollow to me. As a product manager with 10 years experience, I can say Dust needs to focus on its differentiators (designing fittings, skill tree progression, eve universe, etc.) and mitigate the right weaknesses. Noobs like me don't care about respecs (one way or the other), and nerfing and op. And if enough noobs don't turn into vets, the player based will never grow to a viable level for this game to survive.
I've seen some great suggestions on other forumns (sadly not often on the official dust ones) for how to improve the redundant maps/battles, add some really interesting pve, and tie into the eve universe better for noobs and vets alike. These suggestions would be great for keeping noobs in the game like me that want something different but are not hard core gamers or hard core online fps players.
But the number one thing that needs to change to stop the noob churn is pub stomping. I have only been playing 2 months now and cannot explain how frustrating it is to go into battles that are brutally lop-sided where one team has no perm squads and militia to basic gear and the other team is one or more perm squads and full out proto gear. I don't even like it when I am 'lucky' enough to be on the proto gear team. I want a challenge not a slaughter regardless of who is doing the slaughtering.
I want two basic settings for the public instant battles: no proto gear and no perm squads. That's it. I just want to skim off the top 20 odd percent of pub stomping. There will still be lots of lop sided battles, but not much outright pub stomping. For those of you who say things like "a really good player can still survive on basic gear", a game can't be designed just for the top 5% of skilled players. I'm not amazing at this game and probably never will be. I've got a job, a family and friends, but I still like to play video games 5-15 hours a week, have money to spend, and for the first time I found an online fps that actually interests me.
Better maps, okay quality pve and better tie ins to the eve universe would be great, but the thing that will keep me playing after my current booster expires is those two basic filters for the public battles. These two settings will also stop me from advising my friends and co-workers to avoid this game. I tell those people this game has potential, but unless they want to spend most of their time being completely slaughtered in 45 to 0 ambushes for the first 300+ hours of game play they should keep away from this game. And it's that word of mouth from noobs like me that is going to kill this game. Not because some of the vets left do to respec, op, nerfing, etc. This game will die because the noob churn steadily lowers not because people are staying but because no one is giving the game a try anymore.
So to all you vets that genuinely care about this game: push ccp to mitigate the pub stomping problem asap or better yet: stop knowingly pub stomping. Without some action by ccp or you, this game WILL die.
lol dust WAS great when it first started closed beta. then slowly all the "NOOBS" joined the game and cried that this and that needed to change. NOW you all are paying for it. |
Thang Bausch
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 17:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
GoD-NoVa wrote:Thang Bausch wrote:I can handle the many, many flaws of this game because it has some unique characteristics that have enticed me to play an online fps for the first time in my life. I hear everyone whinning about respecs and nerfing and op, but i don't think these are killing the game. a f2p game needs a large player base to survive. For all the arrogant, look down your nose at the 'noobs' talk on the forums, all the vet players need the noobs to stick with this game.
Many noobs are going to leave because of the poor fps mechanics, redundant maps and battle types, and lack of pve. I am not concerned about those who leave for the poor fps mechanics because this game will never be able to beat the fps big players. I've played a bit of CoD and Halo and Battlefield and the mechanics are leagues ahead, but I never wanted to play those games because they were hollow to me. As a product manager with 10 years experience, I can say Dust needs to focus on its differentiators (designing fittings, skill tree progression, eve universe, etc.) and mitigate the right weaknesses. Noobs like me don't care about respecs (one way or the other), and nerfing and op. And if enough noobs don't turn into vets, the player based will never grow to a viable level for this game to survive.
I've seen some great suggestions on other forumns (sadly not often on the official dust ones) for how to improve the redundant maps/battles, add some really interesting pve, and tie into the eve universe better for noobs and vets alike. These suggestions would be great for keeping noobs in the game like me that want something different but are not hard core gamers or hard core online fps players.
But the number one thing that needs to change to stop the noob churn is pub stomping. I have only been playing 2 months now and cannot explain how frustrating it is to go into battles that are brutally lop-sided where one team has no perm squads and militia to basic gear and the other team is one or more perm squads and full out proto gear. I don't even like it when I am 'lucky' enough to be on the proto gear team. I want a challenge not a slaughter regardless of who is doing the slaughtering.
I want two basic settings for the public instant battles: no proto gear and no perm squads. That's it. I just want to skim off the top 20 odd percent of pub stomping. There will still be lots of lop sided battles, but not much outright pub stomping. For those of you who say things like "a really good player can still survive on basic gear", a game can't be designed just for the top 5% of skilled players. I'm not amazing at this game and probably never will be. I've got a job, a family and friends, but I still like to play video games 5-15 hours a week, have money to spend, and for the first time I found an online fps that actually interests me.
Better maps, okay quality pve and better tie ins to the eve universe would be great, but the thing that will keep me playing after my current booster expires is those two basic filters for the public battles. These two settings will also stop me from advising my friends and co-workers to avoid this game. I tell those people this game has potential, but unless they want to spend most of their time being completely slaughtered in 45 to 0 ambushes for the first 300+ hours of game play they should keep away from this game. And it's that word of mouth from noobs like me that is going to kill this game. Not because some of the vets left do to respec, op, nerfing, etc. This game will die because the noob churn steadily lowers not because people are staying but because no one is giving the game a try anymore.
So to all you vets that genuinely care about this game: push ccp to mitigate the pub stomping problem asap or better yet: stop knowingly pub stomping. Without some action by ccp or you, this game WILL die.
lol dust WAS great when it first started closed beta. then slowly all the "NOOBS" joined the game and cried that this and that needed to change. NOW you all are paying for it.
But was it a financially viable game when it started? I cannot say without seeing the financials, but I seriously doubt a f2p game would survive with only 4-6k of hardcore players playing it. If the vets want to keep the noobs and non-hardcore palyers out, then what are you willing to pay for that type of game? For example, would you pay 20 a month fee plus in game purchases to keep it designed for hardcore players only? If so, tell CCP that. In the end, CCP has to make money. They can do that by focusing only on the vets and making more money from the vets, or they can keep the vets happy while still encouraging noobs to become vets or at least regular players.
But they can't take the second option unless they understand what they need to do to keep the vets happy. With that in mind, what changes did 'noobs' ask for that ruined it for vets? Most of the complaints from vets I have seen recently are about respecs and OP/UP, or just unsupported Noob hating that reminds me of 2nd generation immigrants in the early colonial days hating the latest wave of immigrants for ruining everything and stealing their jobs. What is your analysis of the changes that were made that ruined the game? More importantly for the topic of this thread, how would match making ruin the experience for vets? I would think that keeping the noobs out of your battles so you only have to play against and with hardcore players would be a good thing for vets? or is pub stomping what vets enjoy about the game?
|
NIGGSWORM
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
22
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 17:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Thang Bausch wrote:Cosgar wrote:You want to know what's killing this game? A bunch of topics about what's killing this game. Too true. have to admit i do regret the drama queen topic title. Wrote that after a couple of hours of getting pub stomped most of the time. The last battle I went against a team that had two prototype fitted tanks and a bunch of infantry in prototype gear. They knew how to play the map so well. It was like a noob meat factory. i think the ambush finished with 47 to 0. I will say for the record that i do like this game. Despite the frustration of being noob meat, no tutorial, and no PvE to get used to the basics of the game, i am still playing and I still think about fits and tactics when i'm not playing. In short, the game has caught my imagination enough to outweigh the frustration. I just hope ccp fixes the noob experience so more people get hooked while improving the vet experience so vets stay and come back. I want this game to succeed and meet its potential. You're right that framing my criticism so drama negative is not helping the problem. Explaining why (with some suggestions for how) something needs to be improved hopefully will.
you just suck, the tanks would recall themselves if they saw NIGGSWORM (Ishykune Assault foregegun) RANDOM NAME |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1089
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 17:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Matchmaking is coming! Couldn't get here soon enough though! |
Bob Teller
Red Star. EoN.
46
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 18:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:Why does everybody make it look like Gear is the problem? I just played a few rounds with free militia gear again and guess what? Scored first place on the leaderboard. In my experience pub stomping ONLY happens when there's a good squad in the enemy team. Doesn't matter how they are equipped. And this is the case in EVERY team based shooter. But Dust has the unique fitting system and suddenly everybody thinks he can deny that he's just too bad and just say that the fitting system is the cause for all of this and that the enemy team has only won because they have better gear.
No. No that's not the reason they won. The reason they won is that they played like a team in a team based shooter. Shocking, isn't it? You will ALWAYS encounter this problem. The only thing to make this less severe is a match making which preferably teams up corp-squads against other corp-squads. Translate to:i have about 15m+sp,with all those core skills i'm sure i could finish first with militia gear if i tried.Most of the time i pubstomp with 5 of my protobears friends,the reason we own is not because of our proto gears and high sp,DONT EVER SAY THAT!!!!! |
THE TRAINSPOTTER
ROMANIA Renegades C0VEN
44
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 18:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
1.Made in China
2. Greed
3.Forum Whiners |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1289
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 18:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
The OP is right. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=95997 |
Powerh8er
DIOS EX. Top Men.
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 18:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
I dont mind pubstomping, because im making isk anyway in my protokiller militia suit. Other than that the thread is ok. |
|
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
367
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 18:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
jgreen 1tc wrote:As a new player as well, I feel completely misled. I thought this game valued teamwork, strategy, and dedication. What it seems to promote however is paying for gear and skills (not uncommon for f2p games), mass attacking with little focus on defense (in skirmish mode), and finding broken tactics that wipe out any need for strategy other than "kill them so they can't do what they want." The war academy is nothing like what you experience once you "graduate" to pub stomping. There is often times no need to be a dedicated support player like I would like to be. People just throw down a ton of drop uplinks for everyone to use and then go about running people over in LAVs or slaughtering the other team with expensive gear as a team. I agree that it sucks to be a part of the winning team.
I just wish they would do something that would entice people to focus on defending instead of just all out attack.
My experience has been the complete opposite. -teamwork and communication is highly rewarded -teamwork and communication can be found in pubs if you find a squad and use a microphone. This does not take long usually if you try. -Aur stuff saves you time and isk, very few things are only achievable by using aurum. -Boosters save you time, and speed up the grind. It takes the same number of games to cap out every week, but doing so gets you more -militia gear or half militia half basic gear does not automatically make you a liability in every game -you might die a bit more, but you can kill people just fine with suits under 15k isk -We have the ability to switch suits constantly. changing to something cheaper, changing your playstyle or goal in recognition the game will be a loss doesn't seem like a huge problem. -There are plenty of uses for dedicated support. It does require examining your teammates. -defense is very useful in skirmish and there are lots of ways to defend an objective |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |