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KalOfTheRathi
Talon Strike Force LTD
Covert Intervention
544
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Posted - 2013.07.19 11:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP is the driving force behind this game. Recognize that whenever the EVE Skill Tree gets modified the players affected are returned their ISK and SP.
For the Caldari Logi Suit hammering they just received returning the SP that has since been invalided should be the default method for the future. Reset SP for all those affected. Every single time. No more mistakes.
Please, just make it a standard policy so I can quit trying to talk people out of quitting your game.  |
Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster
74
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Posted - 2013.07.19 12:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
What is this "hammering" you are talking about? |
Wojciak
Soldiers Of One Network
Orion Empire
55
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Posted - 2013.07.19 12:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:CCP is the driving force behind this game. Recognize that whenever the EVE Skill Tree gets modified the players affected are returned their ISK and SP. For the Caldari Logi Suit hammering they just received returning the SP that has since been invalided should be the default method for the future. Reset SP for all those affected. Every single time. No more mistakes. Please, just make it a standard policy so I can quit trying to talk people out of quitting your game.
I would say no, at least for now. When the "finished" skill tree is out then they can if they want. they should reserve all the sp refunding for when all the racial variants are out. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2861
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Posted - 2013.07.19 12:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:What is this "hammering" you are talking about?
^
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KalOfTheRathi
Talon Strike Force LTD
Covert Intervention
544
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Posted - 2013.07.19 12:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
They do this now for EVE players. They should do it every single time they adjust the tree, regardless of how much they adjust it.
The logistics suit require ~2M more SP to skill to Proto. Now the suit is less useful and the Assault might actually be a better choice. However, with 2M SP now wasted, and it only coming in at a dribble during normal weeks, it is the right thing to do.
This is not about the Logi/Assault feature swap. This is simply about making the default behavior correct. Much like they do in EVE. It's not like they can buy AUR and fix the problem. CCP/Shanghai caused both the original balance issue and has now caused the SP to be wasted.
It is time they started doing the right thing first.
Then their forums don't have to burn with the results to their latest patches. |
KalOfTheRathi
Talon Strike Force LTD
Covert Intervention
544
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Posted - 2013.07.19 12:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sorry, the hammering is they are swapping the attributes for Caldari Assault and Logistic suits.
The problem is the Logi Proto cost ~2M more, last I checked, and now the suit is not as useful to those that just followed what CCP/Shanghai designed (hmm, couldn't think of another word that wouldn't get me banned).
Check dev blogs. |
Soraya Xel
New Eden's Most Wanted
Top Men.
145
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Posted - 2013.07.19 12:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Actually, CCP only returns skill points when the skill you've skilled into is REMOVED. They do NOT offer full respecs when they add new skills to the tree. |
Wojciak
Soldiers Of One Network
Orion Empire
55
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Posted - 2013.07.19 12:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:They do this now for EVE players. They should do it every single time they adjust the tree, regardless of how much they adjust it.
The logistics suit require ~2M more SP to skill to Proto. Now the suit is less useful and the Assault might actually be a better choice. However, with 2M SP now wasted, and it only coming in at a dribble during normal weeks, it is the right thing to do.
This is not about the Logi/Assault feature swap. This is simply about making the default behavior correct. Much like they do in EVE. It's not like they can buy AUR and fix the problem. CCP/Shanghai caused both the original balance issue and has now caused the SP to be wasted.
It is time they started doing the right thing first.
Then their forums don't have to burn with the results to their latest patches.
They knew it was a OP suite, they should be forced to live with it, not for ever but until winter. CCP should not reward people for picking what is OP, i did not see you post this for the Tac Ar nerf. WE all knew that this was comming in one way or another and everyone who used sp to get the Caldari Logi should have prepared for what was coming. Now if you have a Proto C Logi play as a logi. |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
115
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Posted - 2013.07.19 12:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
You know for what you are asking, right? It's like CCP would do re adjust sp in EVE every single time when they made some changes to skill tree, with they are not doing. Every single time CCP is making changes to ship we - EVE pilots - have to life with that. Whatever they do, It is always wanted by community, and here in Dust many people was complaining about Logistic suit tanking ability. I also think it's a problem, several times I couldn't break Logibro tank with me full-proto alfa-sniper(after second shoot they shield comes back and they are healed by some other dude).
I skill up HAV on this char not to fit on it 6 remote armor repairs, and drive around map pretending that I'm actually helping people. Every single sign on sky was telling me that HAV is machine meant to kill, starting from unmounted turrets, through the description, and ending on HAV name by itself. Whoever skilled Logibro he did not done it to be Assault, if he did, then he made mistake - why would people that make mistake was rewarded for them, I don't understand it.
I think CCP will give us another re-adjust skill points when new racial stuff will came out - vehicle or dropsuits. Argument that some part of game is less useful than other is walid - I'm driving MLT/STR HAV in world full of MLT/STR/ADV/PRO/RAR AV I have total reason to cry on forums for skill re-adjust, yet I'm not doing this. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
339
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Posted - 2013.07.19 14:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:CCP is the driving force behind this game. Recognize that whenever the EVE Skill Tree gets modified the players affected are returned their ISK and SP. For the Caldari Logi Suit hammering they just received returning the SP that has since been invalided should be the default method for the future. Reset SP for all those affected. Every single time. No more mistakes. Please, just make it a standard policy so I can quit trying to talk people out of quitting your game.
Except this is wrong. The skills weren't changed. The suits were. Ships in EVE are rebalanced all the time. Skills are still never refunded. They also aren't refunded if you train level 5 and then the pre-requisite for whatever you wanted it for is then lowered. The only time I have ever had skillpoints refunded is when skills were removed entirely from the game.
So get your facts straight. |
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Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
183
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Posted - 2013.07.19 14:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:CCP is the driving force behind this game. Recognize that whenever the EVE Skill Tree gets modified the players affected are returned their ISK and SP. For the Caldari Logi Suit hammering they just received returning the SP that has since been invalided should be the default method for the future. Reset SP for all those affected. Every single time. No more mistakes. Please, just make it a standard policy so I can quit trying to talk people out of quitting your game.
This is false. EVE only ever gives SP refunds when a skill is removed from the game such as the learning skills or some of the older social skills. It does not give refunds for nerfs/changes to items. |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
746
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Posted - 2013.07.19 14:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP changed the way Doomsday Devices work. A weapon that can only be fitted on Titans that was formerly able to Pretty much pop every small ship on grid with the press of a button.
Properly flying a Titan requires several years of skill training, an immense amount of recources and the dedication of several dozen players for multiple weeks for the production alone.
The changes made it so that the DD is a single target weapon that some targets even can survive. A fundamental change to a ship that costs the equivalent of $4.000 for the hull alone.
No respecs where issued. Ever. |
Poonmunch
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc.
Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
122
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Posted - 2013.07.19 14:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:CCP is the driving force behind this game. Recognize that whenever the EVE Skill Tree gets modified the players affected are returned their ISK and SP.
This wasn't a skill tree modification.
It was an equipment modification (well, a dropsuit modification).
Munch
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Damus Trifarn
The Yellow Lantern Corps
2
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Posted - 2013.07.19 14:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
There's no reason to have a respec if you were presented with a multitude of options and chose one and now regret it. We knew that changes were coming and if you skilled into it thinking that they'd stay the same then you have to live with that just like we have to live with the decisions we made when we decided to invest into different skills. The only time where I would justify a respec is when racial variants come out for classes, especially the Heavies. They have 3 different suits, but they're all Amarr. If I want to be a Heavy and am given no choice as far as racial suits then there's a problem. On the other hand, however, if I spec into that suit still I accept the risk that I may not be refunded SP when the other suits come out and I'll have to live with it. I accepted that risk when I put SP into the into Amarr Heavy, and I'll live with the decision I made if that's what I'm stuck with. Not that it's a bad decision (I am pretty good as a Heavy and like my current build), but I still take all the risks that come with it. I'd like a respec if Heavy racial variants come out and respecs for other mercs when racial variants come to other things that don't have it like HAVs and the like, but I'll live with it if they don't. |
KalOfTheRathi
Talon Strike Force LTD
Covert Intervention
547
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 23:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Damus Trifarn wrote: -- snip yada yada yada -- Did you read my post? Cause it is kinda of hard to tell.
If there is no change in the skill tree and you spend them in the wrong place, tough. I clicked on a lvl 4 skill by accident and got nothing as a reward. My mistake and now I am much more careful using the interface.
The problem I am talking about is my EVE friends are surprised that a CCP game doesn't already support what I requested. Which, to restate in hopes you will understand me this time, is if the Skill Tree Is Changed out from underneath a player then, like in EVE, the ISK and the SP are refunded automatically for the player to spend as they now see fit.
I have no problems with the Caldari Logi issue as my alt only has lvl 1 in both Caldari Assault and Logistics. He mostly runs Heavy so no big deal. To those that read the descriptions and trusted CCP/Shanghai they spent potentially millions of SP on skills that no longer do the function described when they spent the SP. Now they are mad. Who would have guessed? Not CCP/Shanghai apparently.
Just make it standard policy, like it is in EVE and it will quiet much of the QQ on the forums and in game about getting Kittened Over Again by CCP/Shanghai. Not all make the distinction as they spread their dislike for CCP in general. Which is why I always specify what the actual problem center is in my references. I don't have a problem with CCP. Their policies are what I would like CCP/Shanghai to use.
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Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
110
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Posted - 2013.07.19 23:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:CCP is the driving force behind this game. Recognize that whenever the EVE Skill Tree gets modified the players affected are returned their ISK and SP. For the Caldari Logi Suit hammering they just received returning the SP that has since been invalided should be the default method for the future. Reset SP for all those affected. Every single time. No more mistakes. Please, just make it a standard policy so I can quit trying to talk people out of quitting your game.
I assure you, Eve players do not get skills restored when a particular FOTM item gets nerfed, even if there is a skill attached to it (and there always is). They get skills restored when the skill tree's structure gets tinkered with. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1230
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Posted - 2013.07.20 00:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Actually, CCP only returns skill points when the skill you've skilled into is REMOVED. They do NOT offer full respecs when they add new skills to the tree.
Yes. The OP's entire premise is wrong. |
Demon Buddah
The Phoenix Federation
26
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Posted - 2013.07.20 00:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
If people trained into the Caldari suit to use as an Assault. Sucks for them. If you don't plan on being a logi, don't train into that role, even if it's just the suit. If you want to be a Assault, train Assault, not Logi. They deserve what's coming to them. They don't deserve a reset, if CCP has given EVE players a reset, it's because something BIG was updated. But that's it. Here's what I see all the time when people complained about the Caldari logis "Adapt or die" so adapt or die. |
Arx Ardashir
Imperium Aeternum
135
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Posted - 2013.07.20 01:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Actually, CCP only returns skill points when the skill you've skilled into is REMOVED. They do NOT offer full respecs when they add new skills to the tree. Yes. The OP's entire premise is wrong.
You notice how is reply halfway down the page doesn't address this issue at all, edspite being raised by almost everyone who replied? |
Casius Hakoke
Fenrir's Wolves
RUST415
180
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Posted - 2013.07.20 01:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:CCP is the driving force behind this game. Recognize that whenever the EVE Skill Tree gets modified the players affected are returned their ISK and SP. For the Caldari Logi Suit hammering they just received returning the SP that has since been invalided should be the default method for the future. Reset SP for all those affected. Every single time. No more mistakes. Please, just make it a standard policy so I can quit trying to talk people out of quitting your game.
Actually in my experience the only time that CCP has refunded SP for changes to skills is when they completely remove a skill, like the learning skills. But when they change what a skill does they do not give you your sp or isk back.
Edit: Guess I was late to the party on pointing this out. |
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