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Posted - 2013.07.19 08:50:00 -
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Why is this a core assumption of balance? Let's look at other popular titles -
Planteside 2 - Medic has exclusive access to the best ARs
Battlefield - Medics oscillate from HMGs to ARs between games
MAG - Medic tool was mandatory for all competent fits
vs
TF2 - Medics can do nothing but heal (very tactical healing system in exchange)
So what does DUST gain by making logistics suits unattractive to slayers? What might it be losing? |
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Posted - 2013.07.19 08:53:00 -
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ChribbaX wrote:New Eden is harsh, that's why. It's a universe unlike no other.
Thank you for blindly defending CCP with no thought processes engaged. Your comment is appreciated. |
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Posted - 2013.07.19 08:58:00 -
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Panther Alpha wrote:I think the keyword is "LOGISTICS" .... they are not really medics. Repairing suits and reviving clones is just SOME of their skills.
What else do they do? Are they able to engage 100% of their time doing those activities? Are those activities fun? Skillful? Useful? Trying to get a slightly deeper discussion than labels going. |
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Posted - 2013.07.19 09:00:00 -
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Cosgar wrote:I'll let you in on a little secret: Every damn suit in this game is a slayer because it's a ****ing FPS! Logis just happen to be able to slay and carry more equipment while doing it.
But CCP is actively trying to change this.
Quote:As mentioned above, these skill changes are largely to discourage assault-focused players from using the Logistics suit as their frontline choice.
The question is: Is this a good design goal? Why or why not? |
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Posted - 2013.07.19 09:07:00 -
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Another Heavy SOB wrote:It's not that they shouldn't or are strictly prohibited from killing reds it's the fact that they shouldn't be the best choice for such a role. Otherwise what's the point of even having an Assault suit?
I could just compound your question by asking "What is the point of two separate suits in the first place?"
I am musing if having one class be "designated backpack" is really a fun design choice. Couldn't all classes simply have 2 or more equipment slots?
And 1 reply/2 minutes was a truly awful nerf  |
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Posted - 2013.07.19 09:10:00 -
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Cat Merc wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Cosgar wrote:I'll let you in on a little secret: Every damn suit in this game is a slayer because it's a ****ing FPS! Logis just happen to be able to slay and carry more equipment while doing it.
But CCP is actively trying to change this. Quote:As mentioned above, these skill changes are largely to discourage assault-focused players from using the Logistics suit as their frontline choice. The question is: Is this a good design goal? Why or why not? So what would be the point of being assault if Logi does the same only having more equipment slots... That makes 0 sense.
Is there enough gameplay in having an "equipment mule" to make the logistics a single focus suit? There is no reason for example the assaults couldn't absorb the still-birth commando trick of two light weapons and be different that way instead. |
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Posted - 2013.07.19 09:16:00 -
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Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:WTF do you want logis to do? Follow heavies around all battle with a repair tool out? Be a pack mule for the squad? Try to revive you when we're all surrounded by reds? Jesus, it's a FPS where we all run around with guns, there's no Geneva Convention. If someone shoots at me, I'm going to shoot back and pick up any dead blueberries on the way. Sidearm, no sidearm, less speed, more speed. A suit is just a suit, it's the player that uses the suit that defines it. If my squad is stocked up, nobody is bleeding out, or nobody needs reps, I'm going to bust a cap in someone's ass because what the hell else are you supposed to do in a game where you hold guns in a first person view? I have a feeling you went logi because you know there is no point in being assault... I am NOT saying you shouldn't be able to engage someone in combat. I'm saying you SHOULD NOT BE AS EFFECTIVE AS THE GUY WITH THE SUIT DESIGNED TO DO JUST THAT!Simple! You give up some of the power to be extremely versatile! Give me a reason to go assault.
I still feel there is no reason to go assault. Mediocre bonuses don't really make up for loss of slots, equipment, etc. I should probably clarify I don't think this nerf is a big deal, I am more interested in the assumptions that underline it and the direction they intend to take this game. |
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Posted - 2013.07.19 09:40:00 -
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BrownEye1129 wrote:Cry cry cry, Logibros shouldn't be on the front lines being killing machines plain and simple. You guys cry about balence and things being OP. When there is a step in the right direction your panties get all bunched up. Think about this for a second where is the balance if a logi suit can kill better than an assault and tank better than a heavy with the added advantage of equipment slots? You guys just to need to get over your "god-suit" being nerfed a tad bit. Learn to work with your teammates. Its only going to get worse for you "one man army" types. Can't wait for the flaylock nerf and all the people crying about a little balance. I for one am glad they are choosing to nerf the logis and am excited about the equipment bonuses that are coming. Dust is constantly going to be changing, demanding new tatics. It's only the people that can't evolve and adapt to change that cry so much about every little change. If you don't like change in a FPS there is a game for you COD.
The point of this thread flew over your head I'm afraid. The nerf was expected and ultimately unimportant to my core question "What is logistics supposed to do to be proactive?" Ammo, healing, even mines, are all on the reactive side. At least if they were also good combat suits they would have a role. Again, this change doesn't make them bad, the concern is it is just the beginning to make combat as painful as possible in these suits. |
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Posted - 2013.07.19 09:42:00 -
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Another Heavy SOB wrote:Cosgar wrote:
WTF do you want logis to do? Follow heavies around all battle with a repair tool out? Be a pack mule for the squad? Try to revive you when we're all surrounded by reds? Jesus, it's a FPS where we all run around with guns, there's no Geneva Convention. If someone shoots at me, I'm going to shoot back and pick up any dead blueberries on the way. Sidearm, no sidearm, less speed, more speed. A suit is just a suit, it's the player that uses the suit that defines it. If my squad is stocked up, nobody is bleeding out, or nobody needs reps, I'm going to bust a cap in someone's ass because what the hell else are you supposed to do in a game where you hold guns in a first person view?
And until they take away your light weapon slot you'll still be able to do exactly that! You just won't be doing it with more tank than ANY other Med suit. For fucks sake people you all act as if you've just been told they're removing your light weapon slot.
It would be a logical next move if people still use logis over assaults no? |
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Posted - 2013.07.19 10:29:00 -
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Another Heavy SOB wrote:zzZaXxx wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Cosgar wrote:I'll let you in on a little secret: Every damn suit in this game is a slayer because it's a ****ing FPS! Logis just happen to be able to slay and carry more equipment while doing it.
But CCP is actively trying to change this. Quote:As mentioned above, these skill changes are largely to discourage assault-focused players from using the Logistics suit as their frontline choice. The question is: Is this a good design goal? Why or why not? I kind of like the idea of the bonuses that they'll give to logis that will be for equipment. I'm wary of of my Cal logi getting a bonus to just drop uplinks because then it's like oh ok I guess I'm all about drop uplinks now. I didn't choose that AT ALL but no respecs so I guess that's my focus now, even though I had NO PART in it. More distinction between assault and logi is good but they have to remember that in an FPS killing red dots is more important and game changing than supporting teammates with equipment. So if they make logis equally effective at support as assaults are at combat, then logis are second fiddles, good at a less vital role. I've only been playing for about a month and I've been very positive in the forums but these guys need to get their **** together. Turning me into a bittervet already. Your noobness shows if you truly believe logistics are a secondary role. Find one corporation that doesn't consider logistics (true logis) as an absolutely essential role in a PC battle.
You'd be hard pressed to find even one pure support logi in PC by request, let alone in high demand.
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Posted - 2013.07.19 10:35:00 -
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Cat Merc wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:You'd be hard pressed to find even one pure support logi in PC by request, let alone in high demand.
No such thing as pure support. Got an assault rifle? You can be an assault, even if all you equipment is for support.
We agree. Perhaps I should have said it more directly. You will never be in high demand in PC for having "proto nanohives", etc. ... |
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Posted - 2013.07.19 13:22:00 -
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You spout so many blatant lies about PS2 that your opinion is worth less than nothing |
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