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Cosgar
ParagonX
2851
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Posted - 2013.07.19 08:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll let you in on a little secret: Every damn suit in this game is a slayer because it's a ****ing FPS! Logis just happen to be able to slay and carry more equipment while doing it.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
2852
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Posted - 2013.07.19 09:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Cosgar wrote:I'll let you in on a little secret: Every damn suit in this game is a slayer because it's a ****ing FPS! Logis just happen to be able to slay and carry more equipment while doing it.
But CCP is actively trying to change this. Quote:As mentioned above, these skill changes are largely to discourage assault-focused players from using the Logistics suit as their frontline choice. The question is: Is this a good design goal? Why or why not?
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:I'll let you in on a little secret: Every damn suit in this game is a slayer because it's a ****ing FPS! Logis just happen to be able to slay and carry more equipment while doing it.
Slay without having any real downsides compared to the actual slayer suit*
WTF do you want logis to do? Follow heavies around all battle with a repair tool out? Be a pack mule for the squad? Try to revive you when we're all surrounded by reds? Jesus, it's a FPS where we all run around with guns, there's no Geneva Convention. If someone shoots at me, I'm going to shoot back and pick up any dead blueberries on the way. Sidearm, no sidearm, less speed, more speed. A suit is just a suit, it's the player that uses the suit that defines it. If my squad is stocked up, nobody is bleeding out, or nobody needs reps, I'm going to bust a cap in someone's ass because what the hell else are you supposed to do in a game where you hold guns in a first person view? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2852
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Posted - 2013.07.19 09:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:WTF do you want logis to do? Follow heavies around all battle with a repair tool out? Be a pack mule for the squad? Try to revive you when we're all surrounded by reds? Jesus, it's a FPS where we all run around with guns, there's no Geneva Convention. If someone shoots at me, I'm going to shoot back and pick up any dead blueberries on the way. Sidearm, no sidearm, less speed, more speed. A suit is just a suit, it's the player that uses the suit that defines it. If my squad is stocked up, nobody is bleeding out, or nobody needs reps, I'm going to bust a cap in someone's ass because what the hell else are you supposed to do in a game where you hold guns in a first person view? I have a feeling you went logi because you know there is no point in being assault... I am NOT saying you shouldn't be able to engage someone in combat. I'm saying you SHOULD NOT BE AS EFFECTIVE AS THE GUY WITH THE SUIT DESIGNED TO DO JUST THAT!Simple! You give up some of the power to be extremely versatile! Give me a reason to go assault.
I went logi because I was bored with assault, and I usually gravitate towards healing/support classes. Oh, and this was back in Chromosome when there was only one logi suit, the exact same one that I'm using now that didn't change much outside of a shield nerf and a hacking bonus... |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2852
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 09:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:WTF do you want logis to do? Follow heavies around all battle with a repair tool out? Be a pack mule for the squad? Try to revive you when we're all surrounded by reds? Jesus, it's a FPS where we all run around with guns, there's no Geneva Convention. If someone shoots at me, I'm going to shoot back and pick up any dead blueberries on the way. Sidearm, no sidearm, less speed, more speed. A suit is just a suit, it's the player that uses the suit that defines it. If my squad is stocked up, nobody is bleeding out, or nobody needs reps, I'm going to bust a cap in someone's ass because what the hell else are you supposed to do in a game where you hold guns in a first person view? I have a feeling you went logi because you know there is no point in being assault... I am NOT saying you shouldn't be able to engage someone in combat. I'm saying you SHOULD NOT BE AS EFFECTIVE AS THE GUY WITH THE SUIT DESIGNED TO DO JUST THAT!Simple! You give up some of the power to be extremely versatile! Give me a reason to go assault. I went logi because I was bored with assault, and I usually gravitate towards healing/support classes. Oh, and this was back in Chromosome when there was only one logi suit, the exact same one that I'm using now that didn't change much outside of a shield nerf and a hacking bonus... I didn't pay much attention to logi suits in chromosome, I don't believe you had more module slots than assaults, did ya?
Always did from each suit tier. The only difference between now and then is that they got rid of the Type 2, B-Series, and VK1 which were faster at the cost of equipment slots, nerfed the shields, added a minor speed buff, and put the hacking bonus on a per level basis instead of what suit tier. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2852
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Posted - 2013.07.19 09:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Another Heavy SOB wrote:Cosgar wrote:
WTF do you want logis to do? Follow heavies around all battle with a repair tool out? Be a pack mule for the squad? Try to revive you when we're all surrounded by reds? Jesus, it's a FPS where we all run around with guns, there's no Geneva Convention. If someone shoots at me, I'm going to shoot back and pick up any dead blueberries on the way. Sidearm, no sidearm, less speed, more speed. A suit is just a suit, it's the player that uses the suit that defines it. If my squad is stocked up, nobody is bleeding out, or nobody needs reps, I'm going to bust a cap in someone's ass because what the hell else are you supposed to do in a game where you hold guns in a first person view?
And until they take away your light weapon slot you'll still be able to do exactly that! You just won't be doing it with more tank than ANY other Med suit. For fucks sake people you all act as if you've just been told they're removing your light weapon slot.
I'm a Minmatar logi, I never had more tank than any other suit. Hell, I hybrid tank with ~450HP and fast regen. Everyone is so obsessed with buffer tanking that nobody knows what the hell a shield regulator does. Also, if you noticed in the dev blog, only the CaLogi and ALogi are being changed. The shield recharge delay came out of left field, but it's kind of meh since I know what a shield regulator does. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2853
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Posted - 2013.07.19 09:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Another Heavy SOB wrote:Cosgar wrote:Another Heavy SOB wrote:Cosgar wrote:
WTF do you want logis to do? Follow heavies around all battle with a repair tool out? Be a pack mule for the squad? Try to revive you when we're all surrounded by reds? Jesus, it's a FPS where we all run around with guns, there's no Geneva Convention. If someone shoots at me, I'm going to shoot back and pick up any dead blueberries on the way. Sidearm, no sidearm, less speed, more speed. A suit is just a suit, it's the player that uses the suit that defines it. If my squad is stocked up, nobody is bleeding out, or nobody needs reps, I'm going to bust a cap in someone's ass because what the hell else are you supposed to do in a game where you hold guns in a first person view?
And until they take away your light weapon slot you'll still be able to do exactly that! You just won't be doing it with more tank than ANY other Med suit. For fucks sake people you all act as if you've just been told they're removing your light weapon slot. I'm a Minmatar logi, I never had more tank than any other suit. Hell, I hybrid tank with ~450HP and fast regen. Everyone is so obsessed with buffer tanking that nobody knows what the hell a shield regulator does. Also, if you noticed in the dev blog, only the CaLogi and ALogi are being changed. The shield recharge delay came out of left field, but it's kind of meh since I know what a shield regulator does. So if your chosen suit is already balanced and therefore not seeing any changes then why are you here bitching?
Because people think that none of the suits (excluding CaLogi) are balanced. Check my post history, I've been defending logibros since all this drama started. Last thing I wanted to do was log in one day to find out that all my fittings are invalid because I can only use sidearms because everyone thought yellow = OP and CCP decided to give the squeaky wheel the grease. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2854
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Posted - 2013.07.19 10:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
xAckie wrote:hackerzilla wrote:I think that the freedom to do as you wish with your dropsuit has been slightly robbed... If you want this outcome then there shouldnt be classes. to do what you want there should be a single frame and you skill into different types of slots and fill the frame with the slots you want - mix and match. Am ok with this but then we shoudlnt pretend there are classes in this game
Aside from heavy weapons, every suit in the game can use any weapon or any module as long as you skill into it and have the CPU/PG to fit it all. We already have the freedom to do what we wish with our dropsuits. The problem is that you have people trying to tell you how you should play or cry nerf when they think something is OP without being specific. Remember all those nerf all the logi topics when all this started? My number one question I always asked was how are all logis OP? Half of them couldn't answer because it was all about painting things with a broad yellow brush. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2854
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Posted - 2013.07.19 10:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Another Heavy SOB wrote:Quite an assumption you make there. Or have you read the minds of all invested in this game? I personally feel that with these changes Scout's are the only one's in dire need of attention. Other than that most frames/roles are pretty well balanced. I highly doubt you will EVER see logis restricted to sidearms only. So uhh don't get your panties all wadded up just yet 
I used to be a battleship pilot in EVE, I'm not taking any chances. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2854
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:Been throwing this idea around lately...
No damage mods on logis
Make equipment a requirement
Make equipment metal level = or > weapon meta level
This means no pro gun without pro equipment unless you completely sacrifice tank.
This makes logis high armored roles based on support just like the logi dropship, which has more life but less damage with turrets
(no damage mods or pro gun unless you sacrifice big tank)
Thoughts?
Fine, but come up with "limitations" for all the other suit classes so everything is even. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2862
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Posted - 2013.07.19 12:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Why is this a core assumption of balance? Let's look at other popular titles -
Planteside 2 - Medic has exclusive access to the best ARs
Battlefield - Medics oscillate from HMGs to ARs between games
MAG - Medic tool was mandatory for all competent fits
vs
TF2 - Medics can do nothing but heal (very tactical healing system in exchange)
So what does DUST gain by making logistics suits unattractive to slayers? What might it be losing? bf3 is a kids game...they gave the medic the best guns so people would want to play medic..that did not work...now every one plays the med class just to run around with an m16 or an aek....im not sure about ps2....now in mag you needed the med tool but it took up a lot of space...so alot of times you could not use the gun you wanted or you could not equip the amount of armor you wanted...i think dust should be the same way...a medics job is to repair and rearm his comrades.. taking down the enemy comes second..
Any self respecting logi already does this and runs support in their own way. For example, I use my speed and hacking bonus to run distraction while laying out uplinks, repair hives, and mines in strategic positions depending on the map while abusing the active scanner. I usually don't get any more than 10~15 kills and net 1200~1800 WP through simple field control. If there are more armor tankers or heavies, I might focus on repair tools and an injector while staying with my squad to keep them in the fight while laying covering fire. There's no wrong way to play logistics, but I think it's wrong that people think they should tell others how they should play. We already had this kind of elitism in EVE at one point, and hope it's something that doesn't translate to Dust. |
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