|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
dday3six
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
109
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 00:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Signed.
|
dday3six
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
118
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 16:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote:i never once used cal logi and i want a respec. this game gets boring if you dont change it up once in a while. i used to play this game for like 5 hours day, just loved it, but now its just not as fun as it used to be. my sp is all over the place (mass drivers, ADS, Caldari basic frame ck.0, forge guns, hmgs, scrambler rifles, scouts, etc.) because i got bored of using the same scrambler rifle every match. the grind takes months to get just a one thing to proto, and people are bound to get bored using the same gear they are stuck with.
That's excatly the point, CCP wants the grind to be long and boring. They want the grind to push players into buying AUR gear. Which wouldn't overly be an issue if gameplay was stronger and featured more content, but as we all know that's not the case. |
dday3six
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
161
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 00:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Karl Koekwaus wrote:Hell no.
Respecs go against the very being of the EVE universe, which is 'your actions have consequences'.
If you want to pew pew a bit in a game without this, I think Battlefield or COD are both catering to your playstyle. You can change all the weapons all the time in them.
Also, stuff gets balanced all the time. Deal with it and play what you like to play instead of what is the fotm build. This way you won't rage on some internet forums when some numbers get fiddled with for the good of the game.
How is a person suppose to interpret the consequences of their actions, if they don't have all the variables, and even further if those variables are subject to continual, radical changes.
With the example of the CalLogi, it was very obvious that suit's bonus would either be lessened or outright changed, but the CPU decrease come out of left field surprising several people. What if in 1.4's infantry rebalance all suits got a decrease in CPU and PG? How could players have planned for that?
Now I agree that if respecs were offered too often it would throw out consequence. I advocate 1 respec a year with 1 addition AUR respec available in the same time frame. So 2 a year if a players is willing/able to pay for the second. Personally I feel this is a fair comprise because it allows for respecs, but also gives them consequence as they are not readily available. |
dday3six
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
169
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 20:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Visala Telephia wrote:dday3six wrote:Karl Koekwaus wrote:Hell no.
Respecs go against the very being of the EVE universe, which is 'your actions have consequences'.
If you want to pew pew a bit in a game without this, I think Battlefield or COD are both catering to your playstyle. You can change all the weapons all the time in them.
Also, stuff gets balanced all the time. Deal with it and play what you like to play instead of what is the fotm build. This way you won't rage on some internet forums when some numbers get fiddled with for the good of the game. How is a person suppose to interpret the consequences of their actions, if they don't have all the variables, and even further if those variables are subject to continual, radical changes. With the example of the CalLogi, it was very obvious that suit's bonus would either be lessened or outright changed, but the CPU decrease come out of left field surprising several people. What if in 1.4's infantry rebalance all suits got a decrease in CPU and PG? How could players have planned for that? Now I agree that if respecs were offered too often it would throw out consequence. I advocate 1 respec a year with 1 addition AUR respec available in the same time frame. So 2 a year if a players is willing/able to pay for the second. Personally I feel this is a fair comprise because it allows for respecs, but also gives them consequence as they are not readily available. This too is part of EVE was the point the person you replied to was trying to make. Each expansion of EVE sees rebalances to various ship types, introduction of new game mechanics or ships and many other things. Suddenly, if something doesn't work anymore, players figure out what does work, or how to adapt their old strategies to new mechanics or ship types. If this means taking a new skill line, so be it. In EVE, one of the most important things to train isn't a specific ship class. Its core skills. And the same holds true in DUST. Train all of your dropsuit upgrade skills that confer passive bonuses first, then go focusing on getting into proto suits. You'll find it much less painful when you can fit a lot more to a weaker suit. Ultimately, its just a matter of accepting reality, putting on your best smile, and finding enjoyment even in the midst of confusion. I really am sorry for everyone who specced into terrible things or things that were nerfed, and I feel that what we need isn't a respec. We need PvE. Something to do to experiment without as high a risk of loss and to gain the SP that is vital to do things in PvP. Just like in EVE. Additionally, DUST needs EVE's actual skill system. EVE uses attributes to determine the training speed of a skill, and these attributes can be enhanced with implants, for faster training. The major thing is that... each skill uses two attributes to determine how fast it trains. A primary and a secondary. And... EVE players get a remap of their attributes each year, so that they can quickly shift their training focus into new skill types. New players get three remaps to start. If DUST had the same skill system, the passive training would feel meaningful enough that people might just be willing to turn the game off for a week, or to just casually play while they speedgrind through the SP via passive training for whatever their focus is.
EVE has much more to do than Dust. Dust is a simply lobby shooter currently, PVP's not merely a central focus, it's the only focus, and it's highly unlikely even in the future players will be able to only be an Industrialist in Dust. So while it's true that Dust could greatly benefit from PVE, it's also important to note that gameplay is always going to be more limited in scope with Dust in comparison to EVE. So a one size fits all approach of what works for EVE must therefore work for Dust is haphazard.
The biggest problem is that Dust is a free to play business model, and while EVE Online is sort of a hybrid between subscription and cash items, the majority of it's revenue comes from sub fees. This is the most glaring issue with trying to change the skilltree and character progession of Dust, because it's designed to maximize revenue gain from cash items. So while EVE does have a good progress system, the same system cannot transfer as well to Dust.
While I agree that core upgrades are important, you're talking about nearly a year's worth of SP, if you trained all skills which have passive bonuses to 5. It's much better for a player to take what they need for the fit/s they wish to run. |
dday3six
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
169
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 01:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Karl Koekwaus wrote:The consequences of some choices ingame of your are unknown, as are they of most things. (would we have won this match if didn't focus on the tank? etc. etc.) If you want to know everything or even most things in advance, playing a multiplayer game is a really bad choice. Playing a game set in the EVE universe is an even worse choice. Since both thrive on people making choices without knowing everything and dealing with the consequences of those actions taken.
I'm not referring to general gameplay, and bringing it up is distractionary straw man at it's finest. What I am talking about is the consequences of character progression. Dust requires players to map out their drospsuit fit months in advance in order to make sure they're able to fit what they want. My point is summed up as; Either you're gambling or you're stat planning, forcing both is asinine. Beyond that I'm not sure what multiplayer games you talking about, most offer a much better expierence for what they are marketed as than Dust does.
Karl Koekwaus wrote:That is why you need to learn to focus less on what is best and more on what do I find fun to play with, so you don't go haywire when something happens with your suit. The caldari logi suit is still very much a logi suit. Following the skill what you find fun to play a CPU or PG decrease wouldn't matter, maybe you'll have to switch out a mod for for another one and switch some PG or/and CPU mods, the way you play the suit however wouldn't change. A logi suit would still be a logi suit, even if you have a bit less tank on it.
I think the problem with people wanting respecs is that they don't realize that the road to your goal is the goal and you'll have to enjoy that. instead they want Proto fotm builds for every patch something gets changed and they see another fotm build instead of enjoying the role they like to play.
So what if being effective and the "best" is what is fun for a player? You do understand that Dust was and still is marketed as a competitive shooter in which you can play as you want. Proto gear is the high end, and required for PC. Fun and effective/best doesn't have to be at odds, and for some it's not. Are you going to tell the players lured to Dust for competitive gaming expierence Dust is a bad choice for them too? You know frankly I see "Dust isn't the game for you", or some derivative being told to several players. So who is it for? And furthermore how is that exclusionary outlook actually healthy for the game.
Karl Koekwaus wrote:The only nice idea for respecs I've seen was in the Feedback and Ideas subsection, which had Respecs as reverse training. So every match instead of gaining SP, you transferred SP from a skill to general SP pool again, ready to spend it on another skill.
The idea you talking about is an interesting one, and CCP has said they are looking into it. (link #42Posted: 2013.07.04 06:54) However the only way it's going to work is if players aren't force to lose all but 300K SP from the skill in question, at that point most would just start another character. |
dday3six
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
169
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 05:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
RA Drahcir wrote:I really hope for the best of this game, I think respecs will help, no one would quit for respecs, but plenty will for the absence of them.
Respec for AUR? Sure. Cooldown? Ok. For ISK? Farm for it.
I've actually had some players threaten to quit Dust and even Eve if respecs allowed in Dust. That or they threatened to riot in Eve. |
|
|
|