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Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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102
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Posted - 2013.07.18 16:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Are you talking about that medal they gave everyone for winning the war?
You mean about the same time that Heth-hnolku was prematurely auctioning off development rights on a bunch of captured federal worlds?
Yes, I believe he's talking about that. That whole series of events should stand as a warning against foolish, premature triumphalism.
By anyone. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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102
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Posted - 2013.07.18 16:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:We will see who is blowing the horn of victory in short order.
Easy answer, soldier:
No one.
The Empyrean War has no victory condition. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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102
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Here is something that is always true. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The reason for that is they keep doing the same thing. The are poor because they don't have ambition and drive. Caldari lose because the run and hide. It's a predictable cycle that only the involved can break. Get used to it or get to changing it.
Soldier, as analogies go, this one is ... just....
Gods and spirits, how can you even form coherent sentences? |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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103
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Posted - 2013.07.19 01:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:I support personal responsibility on all things. I do well because I work hard, they are poor because they make poor decisions. There are plenty of ways to make ISK and most are almost handed to a pilot or merc if they just try.
Worthy to lead? Are they ordained by some all powerful omniscient god? Your government is just as corrupt as mine. We at least get to be free and enjoy a life that is not determined at birth. Born into harsh conditions? That is sad, so sad. I will cry an empty Quafe can full of tears for you when I start caring. Just like a fascist to bring up up bringing to justify tyranny.
Um.
Soldier, Caldari citizens are promoted on merit-- "corporate meritocracy," a concept your Federation shares in its private sector.
The main difference between a Federal corporation and a State megacorporation is that the megacorporation is more than a tool for concentrating wealth: it is also a social and political construct. In a very sketchy sort of way, it's what happens when you cross a Federal corporation with an Amarrian feudal domain.
The corporations are not owned by the government of the Caldari State; they are the government of the Caldari State. The result is peculiarly rigid in certain ways, but both more flexible and more durable than you seem to think-- and more sensible than selecting leaders via regularly-scheduled popularity contests. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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107
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Posted - 2013.07.19 02:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Yeah because having the government ran for power and money is better than a system that promotes individuals to better themselves and strive to be more. Either way you spin it, the Caldari mega corporations run the government or the government owns the corp, you get the same results. People with power holding the powerless under their thumb, oppressing opposition and out of touch with normal society is the name of the game and it's the one game you're people is good at.
Soldier ... gods and spirits. You give me a headache.
Caldari megacorporations do quite well at governing unless and until their leaders start thinking like Gallentean libertarians-- "I have what I have because I deserve it. I earned it all, and owe nothing to anyone else." That's the point at which they historically started abusing their workers-- and that's how we got Heth-hnolku: from the resulting revolt, the "Brothers of Freedom" incident a few years ago.
To be clear, the Templis Dragonaurs, of which Tibus Heth is both a member and a fine (awful) example, represent a dark but permanent underbelly of Caldari society, and its sentiments are not too far estranged from the Caldari vox populi.
Be careful what you wish for. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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110
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Posted - 2013.07.19 13:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Freedom is a way of life not a way of thinking.
An artificial distinction-- it is difficult to have one without the other.
Interestingly, the Caldari, also, often go on about "freedom." They just mean it in a more historically traditional manner: freedom of our peoples from foreign intervention.
Yours, specifically. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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126
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Posted - 2013.07.23 17:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Just letting you know it's wrong, not trying to win you over. I stood with the Caldari but they did me wrong and I have no need for them now.
That is an interestingly Caldari attitude, soldier. If you actually believe in individualism, it should not be possible for an entire nation to wrong you.
You also seem to suggest that your grudge against the State is personal rather than political, which seems to fly in the face of some of your rhetoric. Do you care to clarify? |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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130
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Posted - 2013.07.23 22:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:The Intaki supported the Caldari, fought for them and with them and we were treated like second class citizens. I am personally and politically disappointed with the State. The people allow these things to happen so I have no love for any of them any more.
Some Intaki fought for the State in the original Caldari/Gallente War. Some of these ended up joining Mordu's Legion. Others live in the State as a client state to the Caldari-- just like we Achura do.
For the record, soldier, anybody can become a full Caldari citizen by becoming culturally Caldari. The Caldari are highly protective of their culture; that's sort of the point of the State. The rest of us are welcome there so long as we're willing to govern ourselves and live apart.
If you're holding the State responsible for the actions of a few shameful, Dragonaur-inspired idiots who, I might point out, revolted against the State, you'll have little reason to argue if we hold the Gallente responsible for the actions of the U-Nats and similar fools.
Quote:"Federation forces in the Intaki system fell to the State Protectorate, ceding occupancy to the Caldari state. Unrest and violence broke out in places on the Intaki homeworld, divided between pro-Federation, pro-State and Intaki secessionist factions."
Yes, I remember. Quite unfortunate-- but how is this the fault of the Caldari? The Federation agreed to a CONCORD-mediated war that left Intaki in the war zone. You'll note it's not the Caldari rioting in the streets in this historical snippet. Neither, in fact, is it even all pro-State versus pro-Federal.
Quote:"As with all other Caldari-occupied systems, Intaki was barred from voting in the Gallente presidential elections."
Again, how precisely is a Federal action the State's fault? The Federation loses control of the Intaki system in a war, so you blame the people they were fighting? A bit partisan, are you not, soldier?
Quote:These are just two reasons, there are plenty more.
Please continue. And then perhaps we can trot out our own grievances, and we can see whether they match. The more you make us suffer for all the suffering we have caused you, the more reason you give us to make you suffer for all the suffering you have caused us.
There is always reason to fight, soldier. I suppose we'll get to see, eventually, whether pseudo-immortals like us still have any reason to want peace. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
130
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Posted - 2013.07.24 00:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:The Caldari government and the people who support them destroy innocent lives. They are murders and oppressors, they didn't need those territories and they didn't need to do it with force. We were happy living with our Caldari country men and we were peacefully going about our business we were stabbed in the back and forced to flee or fight. I will not be treated like that and they can go to hell!
What, you mean the Gallentean systems in the Emyprean War?
Something to get clear, soldier: the Caldari didn't particularly want that war. They wanted Caldari Prime, and, Tibus Heth being Tibus Heth, Tibus Heth took it on behalf of the State. It's arguably the most popular thing he ever did.
The Federation, noticing that it was in a bit of a bind on that front, what with the orbiting doomsday device (a situation that has resolved only recently), conceded that Caldari Prime was lost-- and declared war elsewhere in essentially the same breath.
We're not at war because the State wants to expand its domain over Intaki or any other frontier world, soldier. We're at war because the Federation couldn't stand losing the Caldari homeworld like that (that is, with hardly a shot fired) and insisted on making the State pay in blood. |
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