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hooc order
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
700
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Posted - 2013.07.18 00:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
And how everyone got it wrong.
Almost every review of the game and the discussion about the ending always focuses on Joel's lie to Elie....and in fact many reviews even try to portray Joel as a villain because of it.
What is often missed is Ellie's lie.
At the end she says her and her friend were bitten and they decided to go crazy together...like a modern age teen age suicide pact.
What she doesn't tell him but is obvious is that she had to kill her friend once her friend turned. What else could have happened of not that.
The reason she left that out is because she wanted Joel to admit that he would not let her die to save all of humanity.
You see Ellie is not "The Last of Us" she is what is next. Not only is she immune to what killed everyone but she knows nothing of what the world was like before its collapse. She has no problem with dead bodies and killing to survive. She had no problem killing the leader of cannibals when he tried to kill her...at least no moral problem with it. In fact pretty early in the game Ellie looks on at a pile of burnt corpses and Joel says "You don't need to be looking at that" And Ellie point blank replies "I have seen worse"
Ellie is not part of our world. She has a different morality and a different view of what needs to be done. Joel on the other hand is like us. He grew up in the soft moral world where you do not have to kill or be killed. He is "The Last of Us"
The lie he told Ellie was not to benefit her (though he may of thought it was) but it was to benefit his view of the world. ie little girls like Ellie need to be protected from harsh realities.
Of course Ellie is no little girl. She was born and lives in the world after its collapse and the morel dilemmas which plague Joel (and us as the players) are nothing to her. The harsh world to her is like the ocean is to a fish.
Joel is a survivor....Ellie is just living. |
Aqua-Regia
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
270
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Posted - 2013.07.18 00:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
errrrr.................... is this the Dust forum? |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
700
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Posted - 2013.07.18 00:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aqua-Regia wrote:errrrr.................... is this the Dust forum?
Shut up you...i use my PS3 account to log in =P |
Alucard Fang
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
251
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Posted - 2013.07.18 00:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
hooc order wrote:Aqua-Regia wrote:errrrr.................... is this the Dust forum? Shut up you...i use my PS3 account to log in =P Everyone does. This is the wrong board. Go to http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/The-Last-of-Us-General/bd-p/24815
Or at least post in the locker room on this board. |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
700
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 01:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
This is all a metaphor meant to show the differences between vets and post uprising players in Dust.
Vets are like Joel. Still struggling with the collapse of Dust. |
itsmellslikefish
DIOS X. II Top Men.
134
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Posted - 2013.07.18 01:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quick, edit something dust related into this brillient post before it gets moved! Uhh Ellis was an amar, and uh something. |
GTA-V FTW
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.07.18 01:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Damn WTF happen to *Spoiler Alert*
Now I don't need to finish the game!
Well finish it again I should say. |
KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
134
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Posted - 2013.07.18 01:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lol |
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CCP Mintchip
C C P C C P Alliance
714
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Posted - 2013.07.18 01:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
I moved this to the locker room. CCP Mintchip // Twitter - @CCP_Mintchip Dust 514 Community Rep |
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines
72
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Posted - 2013.07.18 01:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
So I guess for her, when shes older getting freaky with zombies is an inevitability? |
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DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo
1562
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Posted - 2013.07.18 01:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
How do you know Ellie had to kill her? She could have run away. At the beginning of the game she wasn't really that good at fighting normal people, not to mention infected. Remember when that black kid (Pardon my French... African American, if the U.S still exists then) get's infected and attacks her? She would have been killed had he not been shot.
Maybe a lie, maybe not. Game never proves it, to my knowledge, so I am going to say Bible Study on this. |
GTA-V FTW
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2013.07.18 01:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:So I guess for her, when shes older getting freaky with zombies is an inevitability?
Do zombies grow old?
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DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo
1562
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Posted - 2013.07.18 01:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
GTA-V FTW wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:So I guess for her, when shes older getting freaky with zombies is an inevitability? Do zombies grow old? They lose their vision and get a beer belly lol |
jin foxdale
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
34
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Posted - 2013.07.18 02:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Reading between the lines of that ending, I reckon Ellie grows up, meets a nice fella, gets married, and becomes pregnant - hurrah! Grampy Joel is justified in his decisions and lies! Ellie gives birth to twins, one - a strapping boy, the other - a proper freak. One gimpy arm, blind, zombiefied eyes, drool, the lot. But the freak is also immune to the infection, so the Fireflies want to harvest its brain and cure the infection - only Ellie doesn't want this and goes on a shivving and shooting marathon to protect it. Expect "The Last of Them" to hit ps4 in a couple of years. |
Dhaal Goro
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.07.18 05:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
jin foxdale wrote:Reading between the lines of that ending, I reckon Ellie grows up, meets a nice fella, gets married, and becomes pregnant - hurrah! Grampy Joel is justified in his decisions and lies! Ellie gives birth to twins, one - a strapping boy, the other - a proper freak. One gimpy arm, blind, zombiefied eyes, drool, the lot. But the freak is also immune to the infection, so the Fireflies want to harvest its brain and cure the infection - only Ellie doesn't want this and goes on a shivving and shooting marathon to protect it. Expect "The Last of Them" to hit ps4 in a couple of years.
LOL |
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
308
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 06:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
No, that is not obvious. It's probably not even correct.
Why did she HAVE to have been the one to kill her? Did she not have fully serviceable legs? Did her best friend have on a damage resistant vest that only attacks from Ellie could penetrate?
She was still a kid. "I've seen worse." Yeah, probably have. Seeing bodies and knowing that it is kill or be killed is one thing. Actually doing it yourself is another entirely. She didn't even kill a human until that first guy that had Joel pinned in that puddle.
That's what it really is though. Traveling with Joel forced her to adapt and see, well, a whoooole lot of things she probably wouldn't normally have. Well, if her combat dialogue is anything to go by anyway. You make it sound like she grew up on the streets and had to make life or death decisions every day. She grew up in MULTIPLE QUARANTINE ZONES. It's that experience gained with Joel that allows her to perform so well when forced to.
She didn't have any problems with killing David because by that point she had already gotten her first kill and the moral dizziness that accompanied it out of the way a loooong time ago (some odd months), saw Joel do what he does for longer than that, and if she didn't they were going to kill her AND the closest thing to a friend/father/family member she had. Course, i'm sure the fact that he was taunting her all throughout that last bit and was about to have forced coitus (I had no idea gRAPE was censored. Made that look a bit more crass than I had intended) with her had something to do with it.
That lie at the end wasn't to protect her from harsh realities. Ellie actually agreed to have the surgery. Joel, Ellie being the daughter to her that she is, had a problem with this. There's a whole lot wrapped into that bit. It didn't really benefit his world view either, just him. Selfish, yeah, but it is what it is. He didn't want to give her up. He found his thing "to fight for". |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
363
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 08:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zombies will be pass+¬ next year... yaaawn... I wonder what will be en vogue then? Nice OP |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
704
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 09:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote:No, that is not obvious. It's probably not even correct.
Why did she HAVE to have been the one to kill her? Did she not have fully serviceable legs? Did her best friend have on a damage resistant vest that only attacks from Ellie could penetrate?
She was still a kid. "I've seen worse." Yeah, probably have. Seeing bodies and knowing that it is kill or be killed is one thing. Actually doing it yourself is another entirely. She didn't even kill a human until that first guy that had Joel pinned in that puddle.
That's what it really is though. Traveling with Joel forced her to adapt and see, well, a whoooole lot of things she probably wouldn't normally have. Well, if her combat dialogue is anything to go by anyway. You make it sound like she grew up on the streets and had to make life or death decisions every day. She grew up in MULTIPLE QUARANTINE ZONES. It's that experience gained with Joel that allows her to perform so well when forced to.
She didn't have any problems with killing David because by that point she had already gotten her first kill and the moral dizziness that accompanied it out of the way a loooong time ago (some odd months), saw Joel do what he does for longer than that, and if she didn't they were going to kill her AND the closest thing to a friend/father/family member she had. Course, i'm sure the fact that he was taunting her all throughout that last bit and was about to have forced coitus (I had no idea gRAPE was censored. Made that look a bit more crass than I had intended) with her had something to do with it.
That lie at the end wasn't to protect her from harsh realities. Ellie actually agreed to have the surgery. Joel, Ellie being the daughter to her that she is, had a problem with this. There's a whole lot wrapped into that bit. It didn't really benefit his world view either, just him. Selfish, yeah, but it is what it is. He didn't want to give her up. He found his thing "to fight for".
She seems pretty confident with killing when this happens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH4FNXaMiyk
She does say she is feeling sick...but that disappears pretty quick....in fact her biggest concern is getting credit for the kill and getting credit for saving Joel. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1438
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 10:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
The ending was pure ****
Tho the really bad AI made the entire game horrible to play, the crap story on top of it and badly written ending just made it worse |
DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo
1564
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 12:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:The ending was pure ****
Tho the really bad AI made the entire game horrible to play, the crap story on top of it and badly written ending just made it worse I can see your gripe against AI (though, if you turn up the difficulty level it is a bit better). The story was far from horrible, I mean it was practically a movie that became a videogame first, you are entitled to your opinion though.
How can you say the ending was bad? Even if you didn't like the story you can still say that the ending was rational enough.
Did you not like playing as a teenage girl? Or what? |
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1439
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 14:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:The ending was pure ****
Tho the really bad AI made the entire game horrible to play, the crap story on top of it and badly written ending just made it worse I can see your gripe against AI (though, if you turn up the difficulty level it is a bit better). The story was far from horrible, I mean it was practically a movie that became a videogame first, you are entitled to your opinion though. How can you say the ending was bad? Even if you didn't like the story you can still say that the ending was rational enough. Did you not like playing as a teenage girl? Or what?
If it was a film chances are ppl would have looked at it differently
Some will say joel was completely selfish, lost his original daughter and thought ellie could fill the hole so hes ****** all the survivors left over and making all them sacrifices for nothing so i played the game not to save humanity or whats left of it
The true ending what normally everyone would predict is that they take ellie to the end and she makes the choice to sacrifice herself for the greater good and joel has to live with it or ends up dying to protect ellie so humanity as a whole can be saved - think of Children of Men where the man has to help transport a women and in the end he dies she lives and we dont know what happened after, we assume they found a cure and humanity can reproduce
But the scientists in TLOU are bumbling retards so its make the player think what would be the point in ellie getting chopped up if they are useless and cannot make a vaccine anyways so balls to it il kill em all take her for myself and **** off
Either way joel got emotinal and attached to the package and let his feelings get in the way a bit like transporter 1 except saving chinese ppl he possibly ****** over the survivors
I just didnt like the ending, i suppose it was a **** you and im a survivor bs and il do what i can to survive but it makes him no different to the ppl he killed
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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
2694
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 16:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:The ending was pure ****
Tho the really bad AI made the entire game horrible to play, the crap story on top of it and badly written ending just made it worse How was the story crap? Do you actually believe that and can back it up with evidence, or are you just saying that because you do to like how the story turned out? Edit: ah just saw your post. |
DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo
1567
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 00:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:The ending was pure ****
Tho the really bad AI made the entire game horrible to play, the crap story on top of it and badly written ending just made it worse I can see your gripe against AI (though, if you turn up the difficulty level it is a bit better). The story was far from horrible, I mean it was practically a movie that became a videogame first, you are entitled to your opinion though. How can you say the ending was bad? Even if you didn't like the story you can still say that the ending was rational enough. Did you not like playing as a teenage girl? Or what? If it was a film chances are ppl would have looked at it differently Some will say joel was completely selfish, lost his original daughter and thought ellie could fill the hole so hes ****** all the survivors left over and making all them sacrifices for nothing so i played the game not to save humanity or whats left of it The true ending what normally everyone would predict is that they take ellie to the end and she makes the choice to sacrifice herself for the greater good and joel has to live with it or ends up dying to protect ellie so humanity as a whole can be saved - think of Children of Men where the man has to help transport a women and in the end he dies she lives and we dont know what happened after, we assume they found a cure and humanity can reproduce But the scientists in TLOU are bumbling retards so its make the player think what would be the point in ellie getting chopped up if they are useless and cannot make a vaccine anyways so balls to it il kill em all take her for myself and **** off Either way joel got emotinal and attached to the package and let his feelings get in the way a bit like transporter 1 except saving chinese ppl he possibly ****** over the survivors I just didnt like the ending, i suppose it was a **** you and im a survivor bs and il do what i can to survive but it makes him no different to the ppl he killed You do know, that one of the voice recorders that one of the Scientists left, said that their had been others like her, people that were immune. That all of those experiments were a fail. Though the scientist says this in a weird 'does not want to acknowledge' kind of voice, saying that this is another shot. Or something like that.
Either way it means two things:
The Title "The Last of Us" is referring not to all humans, just immune people. Might just be a coincidence, though.
Or more likely
They had chopped up and killed other immune people and gotten nowhere, if they killed Ellie would it have really helped? Joel probably didn't explain this to her because he didn't want her to think that their was a slim hope of her death actually finding a cure, still a lie though a bit more reasonable. Also, he could truly believe their is no way to find a cure and only makes tells the lie that the Fireflies had stopped looking for a cure.
Personally I rather have that over the expected; Joel dies fighting a thousand zombies just attack the Fireflies' HQ at that point in time for no reason. He tells her to save humanity while he is dying and she does... Not a bad ending just in my opinion the one the dev's decided to go with was A LOT better. Plus, it leaves the series open for a sequel :D |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1441
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 09:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:The ending was pure ****
Tho the really bad AI made the entire game horrible to play, the crap story on top of it and badly written ending just made it worse I can see your gripe against AI (though, if you turn up the difficulty level it is a bit better). The story was far from horrible, I mean it was practically a movie that became a videogame first, you are entitled to your opinion though. How can you say the ending was bad? Even if you didn't like the story you can still say that the ending was rational enough. Did you not like playing as a teenage girl? Or what? If it was a film chances are ppl would have looked at it differently Some will say joel was completely selfish, lost his original daughter and thought ellie could fill the hole so hes ****** all the survivors left over and making all them sacrifices for nothing so i played the game not to save humanity or whats left of it The true ending what normally everyone would predict is that they take ellie to the end and she makes the choice to sacrifice herself for the greater good and joel has to live with it or ends up dying to protect ellie so humanity as a whole can be saved - think of Children of Men where the man has to help transport a women and in the end he dies she lives and we dont know what happened after, we assume they found a cure and humanity can reproduce But the scientists in TLOU are bumbling retards so its make the player think what would be the point in ellie getting chopped up if they are useless and cannot make a vaccine anyways so balls to it il kill em all take her for myself and **** off Either way joel got emotinal and attached to the package and let his feelings get in the way a bit like transporter 1 except saving chinese ppl he possibly ****** over the survivors I just didnt like the ending, i suppose it was a **** you and im a survivor bs and il do what i can to survive but it makes him no different to the ppl he killed You do know, that one of the voice recorders that one of the Scientists left, said that their had been others like her, people that were immune. That all of those experiments were a fail. Though the scientist says this in a weird 'does not want to acknowledge' kind of voice, saying that this is another shot. Or something like that. Either way it means two things: The Title " The Last of Us" is referring not to all humans, just immune people. Might just be a coincidence, though. Or more likely They had chopped up and killed other immune people and gotten nowhere, if they killed Ellie would it have really helped? Joel probably didn't explain this to her because he didn't want her to think that their was a slim hope of her death actually finding a cure, still a lie though a bit more reasonable. Also, he could truly believe their is no way to find a cure and only makes tells the lie that the Fireflies had stopped looking for a cure. Personally I rather have that over the expected; Joel dies fighting a thousand zombies just attack the Fireflies' HQ at that point in time for no reason. He tells her to save humanity while he is dying and she does... Not a bad ending just in my opinion the one the dev's decided to go with was A LOT better. Plus, it leaves the series open for a sequel :D
The fireflies i think were made to be ******* useless from the get go because it fits with the ending so you the player doesnt feel bad if you just decide to waste the lot of them because they are idiots after all
I would have chosen the expected ending, but instead of joel fighting anyone it would have to be ellie making to choice to go under the knife while joel cant do anything and just has to watch or whatever so its out of the players control, maybe even have a heavy rain scene with dialogue where the player can choose phrases or whatever to maybe change ellies mind but the fireflies would have to be remade so they are not idiots and from that you can have either 2 endings, joel on his own feeling guilt for the rest of his days with no vaccine or a vaccines and joel maybe feeling like he did something right and the sacrifices were for somehting after all
There is the main problem
The 'zombies' tbh were bad, its overdone with the zombie genre in general and nothing seems to be good anymore but yet studios will just churn out sequels
What is this sequel going to be? joel and ellie survive again?
How about instead of adding on tacky MP they extended and fleshed out the original story and fixed the damn broken AI, you trying to be sneky but ellie runs around like a headless chicken
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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
2698
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 17:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
@snake
Really? I respect your views and all, but do you really want the same old Hollywood ending churned out at you again? TLoU took a different path than most games take, they deserve to e commended for that alone. And isn't the Mark of a good story one that's makes you think and discuss it?
And since I havent played the game I don't know a lot of the details, but wouldn't you expect the fireflies to be in bad shape given what's happened? The world went to hell, the cream of the crop so to speak of the worlds intellectuals would have taken significant losses in the years of chaos and the majority of those that survived would I've been nabbed by the military. Their poor state could be interpreted as simply the reflection of what a guerrilla force in a post apocalyptic world would be like.
Also might it not possible for Ellie to pass her immunity on to her children? It's not like not sending Ellie under the knife doomed the world |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1442
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 18:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
gbghg wrote:@snake
Really? I respect your views and all, but do you really want the same old Hollywood ending churned out at you again? TLoU took a different path than most games take, they deserve to e commended for that alone. And isn't the Mark of a good story one that's makes you think and discuss it?
And since I havent played the game I don't know a lot of the details, but wouldn't you expect the fireflies to be in bad shape given what's happened? The world went to hell, the cream of the crop so to speak of the worlds intellectuals would have taken significant losses in the years of chaos and the majority of those that survived would I've been nabbed by the military. Their poor state could be interpreted as simply the reflection of what a guerrilla force in a post apocalyptic world would be like.
Also might it not possible for Ellie to pass her immunity on to her children? It's not like not sending Ellie under the knife doomed the world
lolno
It was crap, hyped up how it was going to be different
AI was shoddy at best and completely was half arsed and ruined the immersive aspect of it, ellie was crap AI so 'to fix it' they basically made ellie invisible to all enemys so then why the **** was she in it? could have easily made her into the companion cube and you carry it about and you just sneak about getting parcel to the end, jobs a good en
Also it was basically zombies aswell, evetything end of world is zombies or some kind of zombies but now its more or less the 'infected' which is a buzzword for zombies which is the same thing anyways
Tacked on MP doesnt help either, should have stuck to SP and really fleshed out the story more
Hype machine thats all it was and it was a let down
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DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo
1575
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 21:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:gbghg wrote:@snake
Really? I respect your views and all, but do you really want the same old Hollywood ending churned out at you again? TLoU took a different path than most games take, they deserve to e commended for that alone. And isn't the Mark of a good story one that's makes you think and discuss it?
And since I havent played the game I don't know a lot of the details, but wouldn't you expect the fireflies to be in bad shape given what's happened? The world went to hell, the cream of the crop so to speak of the worlds intellectuals would have taken significant losses in the years of chaos and the majority of those that survived would I've been nabbed by the military. Their poor state could be interpreted as simply the reflection of what a guerrilla force in a post apocalyptic world would be like.
Also might it not possible for Ellie to pass her immunity on to her children? It's not like not sending Ellie under the knife doomed the world lolno It was crap, hyped up how it was going to be different AI was shoddy at best and completely was half arsed and ruined the immersive aspect of it, ellie was crap AI so 'to fix it' they basically made ellie invisible to all enemys so then why the **** was she in it? could have easily made her into the companion cube and you carry it about and you just sneak about getting parcel to the end, jobs a good en Also it was basically zombies aswell, evetything end of world is zombies or some kind of zombies but now its more or less the 'infected' which is a buzzword for zombies which is the same thing anyways Tacked on MP doesnt help either, should have stuck to SP and really fleshed out the story more Hype machine thats all it was and it was a let down
I was completely different in my original feel of the game. I first thought it was going to be a stereotypical zombie game and was not cysed at all... I came away as a big fan.
Yes the A.I of Ellie was not the best it could have been, though, it was not game breaking. To be honest it only really showed up if you tried very risky dashes. I agree though it is immersive breaking.
I also agree that only doing Single player would have been better. Though, you have to understand, just about every game out there has MP, not having MP now is like not having a cellphone in the first world; it may have been fine a decade ago, but it is odd now.
Not a let down, if anything, it delivered way more than it promised. A very rare and risky thing to do in today's gaming industry. I have nothing but mad respect for NaughtyDog.
Can't wait for a sequel, prequel or spinoff. |
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