DUST Search - Does Diversity Matter?

Buster Friently wrote:

Jaqen Morghalis wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

Every game mechanic should have its own strengths, weaknesses, and respective niche on the battlefield that they excel at to counter eachother. If one thing overpowers everything else, what's to point of having variety outside of novelty?

Diversity.

Imagine a hypothetical battle between two equally-skilled squads, both employing teamwork to optimize the strengths of their respective weapons (snipers providing cover fire, etc.).

Now imagine that one squad is using nothing but ARs, and the other using a mix of weapons. Which squad do you think would come out on top?

ARs DON'T overpower everything on the field. A sniper rifle is still a better alternative for long-distance support, for example.

However, that's not to say that Diversity means all weapons are used equally, either. It just means that all weapons have a place and a purpose, and, right now, most of them do.

This is all good, hypothetically. The reality doesn't support this, at least in pub matches. Even in PC data, the AR is only outused by the HMG, interestingly.


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Jaqen Morghalis Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 146	Posted - 2013.07.17 21:28:00 - [1] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Compiles 4 skirmish games worth of "data" Implies that CCP don't know **** 'bout their own data, through suggesting that 4 games worth of data counters well over a years worth of gameplay data Cla..... Others also collected data. The combined kills for pub matches is 850. I agree that CCP has the real data, but they don't seem to want to present it, so I, and others, collected what we could. I think these data are a decent cross section of pub matches. You are free to collect your own set and compare. If you do, please post the results. There's no need for CCP to present the real data. I'm sure they're just as capable (if not moreso) of mathing the numbers together as well as any of us are, and probably more accurately, and (I would hope) with less bias. Besides, most of the other weapons are "niche" weapons, that excell in very specific circumstances or for a specific purpose, while the AR is more of a "general-use" weapon. It only stands to reason that you'd see proportionately more of them on the battlefield. It's generally always been this way for most fps games.
Jaqen Morghalis Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 147	Posted - 2013.07.17 21:42:00 - [2] - Quote Also remember that two of the four basic starter fits come stocked with an unlimited supply of free ARs, while the other two are the Sniper and AV fits The fact that anyone running a free suit to save ISK is probably using an AR is bound to significantly skew your data in it's favor.
Jaqen Morghalis Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 150	Posted - 2013.07.17 22:07:00 - [3] - Quote Also, many of the other weapons need to be specifically and intentionally bought and/or specced into. A player needs to go looking for them in the Marketplace, ensure they meet any SP requirements, and apply them to a custom Dropsuit, in order to use them. The AR is handed to ALL new players, the moment they set foot into Battle Academy. It's no surprise (to me) that the majority (at least of newer) players in pub matches would be more familiar and comfortable with, and therefor more likely to use, an AR over any of the other weapons.
Jaqen Morghalis Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 151	Posted - 2013.07.17 22:29:00 - [4] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Every game mechanic should have its own strengths, weaknesses, and respective niche on the battlefield that they excel at to counter eachother. If one thing overpowers everything else, what's to point of having variety outside of novelty? Diversity. Imagine a hypothetical battle between two equally-skilled squads, both employing teamwork to optimize the strengths of their respective weapons (snipers providing cover fire, etc.). Now imagine that one squad is using nothing but ARs, and the other using a mix of weapons. Which squad do you think would come out on top? ARs DON'T overpower everything on the field. A sniper rifle is still a better alternative for long-distance support, for example. However, that's not to say that Diversity means all weapons are used equally, either. It just means that all weapons have a place and a purpose, and, right now, most of them do.
Jaqen Morghalis Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 152	Posted - 2013.07.17 22:52:00 - [5] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Jaqen Morghalis wrote: Cosgar wrote: Every game mechanic should have its own strengths, weaknesses, and respective niche on the battlefield that they excel at to counter eachother. If one thing overpowers everything else, what's to point of having variety outside of novelty? Diversity. Imagine a hypothetical battle between two equally-skilled squads, both employing teamwork to optimize the strengths of their respective weapons (snipers providing cover fire, etc.). Now imagine that one squad is using nothing but ARs, and the other using a mix of weapons. Which squad do you think would come out on top? ARs DON'T overpower everything on the field. A sniper rifle is still a better alternative for long-distance support, for example. However, that's not to say that Diversity means all weapons are used equally, either. It just means that all weapons have a place and a purpose, and, right now, most of them do. This is all good, hypothetically. The reality doesn't support this, at least in pub matches. Even in PC data, the AR is only outused by the HMG, interestingly. I think you missed the part about diversity not meaning all weapons are used equally. Just because it is used more, doesn't make any of the other weapons useless. Despite the fact that the AR might be predominantly used, that doesn't necessarily mean there can be no diversity. Even a squad comprised of two ARs, a Mass Driver, an HMG, a Shotgun, and a Sniper displays depth and diversity, even though there are more ARs than any other weapon.
Jaqen Morghalis Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 152	Posted - 2013.07.17 22:55:00 - [6] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Jaqen Morghalis wrote: Cosgar wrote: Every game mechanic should have its own strengths, weaknesses, and respective niche on the battlefield that they excel at to counter eachother. If one thing overpowers everything else, what's to point of having variety outside of novelty? Diversity. Imagine a hypothetical battle between two equally-skilled squads, both employing teamwork to optimize the strengths of their respective weapons (snipers providing cover fire, etc.). Now imagine that one squad is using nothing but ARs, and the other using a mix of weapons. Which squad do you think would come out on top? ARs DON'T overpower everything on the field. A sniper rifle is still a better alternative for long-distance support, for example. However, that's not to say that Diversity means all weapons are used equally, either. It just means that all weapons have a place and a purpose, and, right now, most of them do. Most doesn't cut it when 1 or 2 weapons are more effective that the 10 others by comparison. More effective at what, sniping? CQC? AV?
Jaqen Morghalis Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 152	Posted - 2013.07.17 23:05:00 - [7] - Quote Promethius Franklin wrote: Buster Friently wrote: This is all good, hypothetically. The reality doesn't support this, at least in pub matches. Even in PC data, the AR is only outused by the HMG, interestingly. But I'm only asking if this matters, not why it's the case that AR usage is so out of the norm. I'd say no, it doesn't. Remembering that other weapons excel situationally yet tend to suffer greatly outside of specialty and considering how frequently a frontliner may find themselves outside of that specialty, it's fair for a general purpose weapon to find a home in the hands of a large portion of the player base. I believe it DOES matter, in that (in spite of what you see in pub matches, or which weapon is most used) a more diverse team, working together and playing to their strengths, will have an advantage over one that is not diverse, if only because they would be better equipped to deal with a wider variety if situations (sniping in open terrain, CQ weapons in CQC, for example), and respond more effectively against a wider variety of enemy tactics. The "general purpose" AR squad can still be effective, and might win some battles, but the more diverse team is more likely to win the war, IMO.