| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Xender17
Intrepidus XI
EoN.
337
   |
Posted - 2013.07.17 06:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why don't they exist? Other than AV grenade its the only weapon completely incapable of killing infantry.(Also Laser Rifles) |
Syther Shadows
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
335
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 06:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
the thing is swarm lunches damage the first thing they impact
so ... if you where unlucky .... you would be OHKO by the swarm
and then ontop of that... there where multiple of them
even now swarms are still OHKO if you happen to be hit by them while they are "live"
just now you are mostly limited to vehicles |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
5039
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 06:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
YES! they were very very OP back in the Replication build. You could 1 shot kill basically anyone without needing any good accuracy.
If you want dumbfire, plasma cannon is what you're looking for, but they're very underpowered. There is also the forge gun, but only heavies can use them. |
Nguruthos IX
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
914
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 06:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
FG are |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2431
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 06:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:FG are
Quiet you, Dropship pilots have no say in this  |
CoD isAIDS
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 07:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:Why don't they exist? Other than AV grenade its the only weapon completely incapable of killing infantry.(Also Laser Rifles)
Because nearly entire teams would spam them at each other. Same thing with how the TARs were before they got nerfed.
It could've been one of the reasons we had to restart every 2 to 3 games, I don't know, but I'm certainly glad they were changed to what they were meant to be, AV weapons. |
CoD isAIDS
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 07:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:FG are
Forge guns aren't overpowered, because they require aim. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6215
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 07:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dumbfire protoswarm, point blank, into a murader HAV reactor = instant dead. Before the anti-infantry fix Swarms where like the long range shotgun. |
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
316
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 08:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Dumbfire protoswarm, point blank, into a murader HAV reactor = instant dead. Before the anti-infantry fix Swarms where like the long range shotgun.
it took several shots, that is not instant in my book. also as far as I remember, well equipped skilled up HAV could get over 15k ehp back then. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1696
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 08:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP made them into a pure lock on weapon cause stupid blueberrys tried to get kills with them (that was while the splash damage had beeing nerfed hard). So its not really overpowered and to use the dumbfire function effectively you had to shot a not moving tank or be really close to it otherwise you simply could dodge them due to their slow flight time. i still miss the zoom capability from swarms when pressing L1. And you could take out turret installations quite fast. |
|
|
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
738
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 08:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
THEY WERE EVIL! EVIL I SAY! |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
140
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 08:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Surely removing the ability to dumb-fire altogether was a bit heavy handed?
A more nuanced approach might have been something like:
1. Decrease splash damage (a vollet of rockets should not be able to insta kill a tanked player)
2. Reduce the size of the rockets to mitigate the chances of a direct hit against infantry (like an RPG in BF3)
3. Minimum arming distance on rockets, will not detonate until they've travelled 10m. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
728
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 08:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:Why don't they exist? Other than AV grenade its the only weapon completely incapable of killing infantry.(Also Laser Rifles)
Come here and say that about lasers again. I'm typically going 6 or 7-1 with more than 20 asissts. |
Syther Shadows
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
335
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 08:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote:FG are Quiet you, Dropship pilots have no say in this
how the hell do you even know all this stuff when your afk in the mcc ?
do you watch the map and read the names attached to the tags and laugh the whole game through XD ? |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
204
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 09:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Splash damage is already only 19 points of damage per rocket.
Is anyone going to make a fuss about 120 splash damage per volley at proto tier? |
2100 Angels
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
189
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 10:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ahhhh... dumbfire swarms. That makes me nostalgic. Those were the days! I used to get between 40 and 50 kills per match.. so much fun They were ridiculously over powered though. |
THE TRAINSPOTTER
ROMANIA Renegades
C0VEN
15
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 10:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:YES! they were very very OP back in the Replication build. You could 1 shot kill basically anyone without needing any good accuracy.
If you want dumbfire, plasma cannon is what you're looking for, but they're very underpowered. There is also the forge gun, but only heavies can use them.
please dont compare straight going projectiles with arch going projectiles lol
|
Nitrobeacon
Freek Coalition
26
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 11:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote:FG are Quiet you, Dropship pilots have no say in this
He's more of a HAV driver |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
693
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 11:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:Why don't they exist? Other than AV grenade its the only weapon completely incapable of killing infantry.(Also Laser Rifles)
Well, take out an AV grenade, then cook it. Then tell me if your statement is true. |
Musta Tornius
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 11:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Scout + bunny hopping + dumbfire swarm launcher == GG and good night. |
|
|
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
2539
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 12:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:YES! they were very very OP back in the Replication build. You could 1 shot kill basically anyone without needing any good accuracy.
If you want dumbfire, plasma cannon is what you're looking for, but they're very underpowered. There is also the forge gun, but only heavies can use them.
Remember the days of BAD FURRY? Man, I used to just laugh whenever I saw him in a match, because trying to take anything in the compound was pointless.
Dude 1 (Swarm Launcher) BAD FURRY
Dude 2 (Swarm Launcher) BAD FURRY
Dude 3 (Swarm Launcher) BAD FURRY
Dude 4 (Swarm Launcher) BAD FURRY
Dude 5 (Swarm Launcher) BAD FURRY
Dude 6 (Swarm Launcher) BAD FURRY
All in one shot. |
Kaughst
0uter.Heaven
EoN.
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 12:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dumb fire swarms were OP for only very briefly during the closed beta. I believe though that dumb fire on swarms persisted up until right before the E3 build or a little after it.
Basically dumbfire after it was nerfed, was useless, it could kill infantry if you got lucky and an enemy was standing right in the pathway of the missles but even if you started using it on tanks there was little point. You would hit one or two missiles at medium/close range and the rest of shots missed...due to the travel time of the missiles. Locking was all around more effective.. I can not imagine someone with proto swarms really relying on it.
You could compare it to the plasma cannon of today. It is hard to say which one is more effective. Dumb fire AV weapons have not historically worked in dust, that includes the AV grenade which did not have the magnetic effect at one time. Not unless you make them very fast in travel time or give them some type of lock on. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
589
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 16:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Dumbfire protoswarm, point blank, into a murader HAV reactor = instant dead. Before the anti-infantry fix Swarms where like the long range shotgun.
They weren't that good vs vehicles.
I recall the most broken thing was the anti-infantry use which was, honestly, terribly broken.
If things got nasty, you just could take a cheap basic swarm suit and go OHKing people as revenge.
(considering Heavy+HMG dominance of that time dumbfire swarms actually cured that thing a bit).
Swarms of today still suffer from the extreme nerf necessary that time, hence swarms don't even damage infantry standing next to tank being blasted.
Other thing was that because of same reason, the swarm skill bonuses were inert for good part of a year. |
THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD
76
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 17:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
RedRebelCork wrote:Surely removing the ability to dumb-fire altogether was a bit heavy handed?
A more nuanced approach might have been something like:
1. Decrease splash damage (a vollet of rockets should not be able to insta kill a tanked player)
2. Reduce the size of the rockets to mitigate the chances of a direct hit against infantry (like an RPG in BF3)
3. Minimum arming distance on rockets, will not detonate until they've travelled 10m.
We already have too many explosive anti infantry weapons |
Zero Harpuia
warravens
League of Infamy
610
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 18:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
If they were to be introduced they would NOT be OP because all the whining in this thread about Ye Olde OP Swarmer was addressed with removing it's splash. Why shouldn't have dumbfire? No reason beyond foolish shellshocked veterans afraid of something that was long ago neutered breeding. |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
553
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 19:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
maybe just a proto swarm with a .25 second lock-on but higher PG/CPU and ISK or something |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6219
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 19:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Also before the swarm fix as anti infantry
Swarms >>>>> Flaylock. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
2073
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 20:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Look up Eve Online A Future Vision. shows the original swarm launchers firing in a Heliix pattern thaf spun as they flew.
basically it was a six shot cylinder of death that had no friendly fire, so you could dish out 1,200damage per volley instantly without any risk at all.
This was before efficiency ratings where itdid less damage to shields or armor and it was before Dropships/Forge Guns came along.
Basically other than this, tanks were king as there were no other AV options. |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2447
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 21:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Syther Shadows wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote:FG are Quiet you, Dropship pilots have no say in this how the hell do you even know all this stuff when your afk in the mcc ? do you watch the map and read the names attached to the tags and laugh the whole game through XD ?
Every now and then a friend forces me out of the MCC  |
DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc
Dark Taboo
1558
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 22:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Also before the swarm fix as anti infantry
Swarms >>>>> Flaylock.
Flaylocks weren't around when dumbfire Swarm Launchers were around. |
|
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6224
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 23:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Also before the swarm fix as anti infantry
Swarms >>>>> Flaylock. Flaylocks weren't around when dumbfire Swarm Launchers were around.
Trust me on this, Swarms were able to one shot almost any infantry point blank by shooting their feet and became the 'noob' tube of the day and verses flaylocks and the rate of kills per loadout the swarm netted you more over the flaylock which almost requires a magazine load for each kill. |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
813
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 23:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:Why don't they exist? Other than AV grenade its the only weapon completely incapable of killing infantry.(Also Laser Rifles)
Yes, back in closed beta they required no skill to shotgun people with just one blast, it was absolutely disgusting and it was one of the few things that was nerfed very very quickly.
Some things were imba, and then there was the Direct Fire Jump-Spam swarmies, which makes your "flaylock" problem look like a cute waterpistol.
No one, absolutely no one (Besides Badfury) even dared try to defend direct-fire swarms, now that is saying something. |
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
306
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 23:06:00 -
[33] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Xender17 wrote:Why don't they exist? Other than AV grenade its the only weapon completely incapable of killing infantry.(Also Laser Rifles) Come here and say that about lasers again. I'm typically going 6 or 7-1 with more than 20 asissts.
I'm not sure, but i'm going to say this is a joke. +1 to you, good sir!  |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
144
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 06:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:RedRebelCork wrote:Surely removing the ability to dumb-fire altogether was a bit heavy handed?
A more nuanced approach might have been something like:
1. Decrease splash damage (a vollet of rockets should not be able to insta kill a tanked player)
2. Reduce the size of the rockets to mitigate the chances of a direct hit against infantry (like an RPG in BF3)
3. Minimum arming distance on rockets, will not detonate until they've travelled 10m. We already have too many explosive anti infantry weapons
Those are all dedicated anti-personnel weapons. The Swarm launcher suffers a complete inability to adapt to a situation where there are enemy infantry on the field. Clearly this was removed due to abuse, but the mechanic concept (that the swarm launcher could be used as a RPG style blind-fire weapon) was intended to be in the game from day one.
It's possible your bias is also being influenced from the FoTM. Flaylocks and fused locus grenades are both ruining gameplay and I suspect the devs will be taking steps to mitigate them. The Swarm Launcher is not/and I believe will not be given a "win button" blind-fire mode ever again. |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
213
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 07:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Also before the swarm fix as anti infantry
Swarms >>>>> Flaylock. Flaylocks weren't around when dumbfire Swarm Launchers were around. Trust me on this, Swarms were able to one shot almost any infantry point blank by shooting their feet and became the 'noob' tube of the day and verses flaylocks and the rate of kills per loadout the swarm netted you more over the flaylock which almost requires a magazine load for each kill.
Emphasis mine.
It's just not true anymore; if the swarm was dumb fire capable right now, it'd be vastly inferior to the flaylock on a damage per shot level, unless you get a direct hit with the swarm, in which case you'd bloody well deserve the kill (though a single direct hit still doesn't kill anything but a scout...).
Last I heard, you don't direct hit by aiming at the ground.
I think you're missing the point of this suggestion, we don't care that it used to be OP back before the splash was nerfed. No one is asking for a buff to swarm splash, we all know that was what made it OP. What people are asking for is a panic button for the only AV weapon (besides AV grenades) that can't defend itself when presented with infantry.
Hell, I'm not even a swarm user, but I see the merit in this suggestion. It's not unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination. |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |