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Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 11:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you dont believe me see the information for yourself http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Flaylock_Pistol The standard flaylock pistol does 218 on contact and 195 on splash. Average standard drop suit medium runs under 200 hp for most of its shielding and armor. The reload time is 3 seconds which is the same speed as the standard scrambler pistol. Total wtf there. so 218 damage is a kill to anyone not using shield extenders or not using caldari uniforms. and if shields are down instant kill on contact or damn near death by splash if not kill. guarantee. common tactics is flux than flaylock or Mass with flaylock to drain shielding to one hit kill or splash damage two hit kill regardless of being a heavy or not. I TESTED this check it out for yourself. Oh and your kills that require two shots are probably splash damage because contact shots are very hard to do, but the occasion arises when its more than one hit, why because they are using extenders.
But for those who want to see real proof check out this guys youtube video of the flaylock. Pay attention how his aim is literally off the target by massive amount in close quarters. Long distance shots not so bad but usually spamming the shots and technically he is compensating for bullet drop but the drop is not that big anyone could do that (Tell me when you watch this video; how many times do you see him aim down his sights vs hip fire aiming). pay attention to the 2 shot kills that are done by splash damage or these guys health are already low vs the one hit kill. And those that do survive two hits probably have shield extenders. Oh and he gets 60points a kill because of the command ring on him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-45RspYrxw
My SOLUTION: just nerf the damage on Shielding. Keep the damage rate if your shields are down because if your rocking the caldari your solid but running gallente your in trouble. Balance right there by simply counter picking. |
Bettie Boop 2100190003
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
48
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 11:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yet another..
Trol lol lol lol lol... |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 11:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bettie Boop 2100190003 wrote:Yet another..
Trol lol lol lol lol...
Hey man how do you think people got the XBOX ONE to change its policies. Trolling. Or in other words complaining about flaws. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3247
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 11:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
No... Just.... Just no... I hope CCP takes your ability to post a balance suggestion forever. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
2000
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 11:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
So essentially, you're suggesting that the flaylock be awful against shields but remain OP against armour?
In a game where the proto caldari logi reigns supreme, this is not a good suggestion. |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 11:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:No... Just.... Just no... I hope CCP takes your ability to post a balance suggestion forever. how would you balance it than? because the video shows clearly the guy does not use the iron sights a single time and its a sidearm which are designed to be a backup weapon. he is using it like a primary. I'm a Marine and no soldier uses sidearm like that. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3247
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 11:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Minor Treat wrote:Cat Merc wrote:No... Just.... Just no... I hope CCP takes your ability to post a balance suggestion forever. how would you balance it than? because the video shows clearly the guy does not use the iron sights a single time and its a sidearm which are designed to be a backup weapon. he is using it like a primary. I'm a Marine and no soldier uses sidearm like that. Reduce the splash radius to 1.5m for all versions and reduce the fire rate. |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 11:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Minor Treat wrote:Cat Merc wrote:No... Just.... Just no... I hope CCP takes your ability to post a balance suggestion forever. how would you balance it than? because the video shows clearly the guy does not use the iron sights a single time and its a sidearm which are designed to be a backup weapon. he is using it like a primary. I'm a Marine and no soldier uses sidearm like that. Reduce the splash radius to 1.5m for all versions and reduce the fire rate. You got a point there about the Caldari Logistics. Yeah i agree but its understanded that it is too strong than. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
2003
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 11:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Minor Treat wrote:Cat Merc wrote:No... Just.... Just no... I hope CCP takes your ability to post a balance suggestion forever. how would you balance it than? because the video shows clearly the guy does not use the iron sights a single time and its a sidearm which are designed to be a backup weapon. he is using it like a primary. I'm a Marine and no soldier uses sidearm like that. Drop the splash radius/splash damage so you actually need to aim more. |
Arc-08
Horizons' Edge Orion Empire
20
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 13:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
i just think make the rate of fire less, and/or make it a 2 shot clip, 1 for breach, that way even missing one shot makes you have to reload, and maybe a smaller reload time, like actually making them put the little rockets into the gun then closing off the ammo section.
(i'm not good with guns so i'm sure there are actuall names for ammo section :P ) |
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Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
196
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 14:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
The SMG is a sidearm too right - that can kill enemies in a clip or less. Same with the Pistol. Both even have higher than Proto level variants - You guys need to drop that part of your argument.
This has been discussed to death and as Cat says (streamline radius and RoF), that is probably the best.
If they are still too deadly then you scale back splash damage. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Minor Treat wrote:If you dont believe me see the information for yourself http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Flaylock_PistolThe standard flaylock pistol does 218 on contact and 195 on splash. Average standard drop suit medium runs under 200 hp for most of its shielding and armor. The reload time is 3 seconds which is the same speed as the standard scrambler pistol. Total wtf there. so 218 damage is a kill to anyone not using shield extenders or not using caldari uniforms. and if shields are down instant kill on contact or damn near death by splash if not kill. guarantee. common tactics is flux than flaylock or Mass with flaylock to drain shielding to one hit kill or splash damage two hit kill regardless of being a heavy or not. I TESTED this check it out for yourself. Oh and your kills that require two shots are probably splash damage because contact shots are very hard to do, but the occasion arises when its more than one hit, why because they are using extenders. But for those who want to see real proof check out this guys youtube video of the flaylock. Pay attention how his aim is literally off the target by massive amount in close quarters. Long distance shots not so bad but usually spamming the shots and technically he is compensating for bullet drop but the drop is not that big anyone could do that (Tell me when you watch this video; how many times do you see him aim down his sights vs hip fire aiming). pay attention to the 2 shot kills that are done by splash damage or these guys health are already low vs the one hit kill. And those that do survive two hits probably have shield extenders. Oh and he gets 60points a kill because of the command ring on him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-45RspYrxwMy SOLUTION: just nerf the damage on Shielding. Keep the damage rate if your shields are down because if your rocking the caldari your solid but running gallente your in trouble. Balance right there by simply counter picking. if you skilled into gallente, well guess what there is some worth while grinding into caldari too for those gallante fellows who want to get an edge against those flaylocks. keep massive damage against armor but very little to shielding. This way the weapon still have value against heavies and gallente but strong shield guys will have the advantage if the enemy is spamming flaylock shots. This way kills with the flaylock are more intentional has more strategic value in combat. RE-Edited sections. Most people say that the best way to nerf it is to drop splash radius and firing rate. Im fine with that too. But its commonly complained that it is so strong for a side arm way to strong.
What you are seeing when Fundies is flaylocking people is the same thing you would see with a Mass Driver. They have never been this effective or easy to aim though. This gun deserves a light touch with the nerf hammer, bleeding off some direct damage and a small amount of splash radius OR splash damage not both. Also rewatch that video, it is a collection of clips pieced together to make one song worth of kill footage. It isn't a full match of him running around and owning everyone so what you need to do if you want proof is ask Fundies nicely to record a pub match of flaylock fun in which he owns everyone and dies few times.
The flaylock is not the only weapon with explosive damage and I would say it is explosive damage that needs a look at not the weapon itself. We do not have resistance plating like we do in Eve and can't just fit a module to deal with it. Perhaps some resistance plating could help, or reflective plating to reflect splash damage and laser fire. |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Minor Treat wrote:If you dont believe me see the information for yourself http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Flaylock_PistolThe standard flaylock pistol does 218 on contact and 195 on splash. Average standard drop suit medium runs under 200 hp for most of its shielding and armor. The reload time is 3 seconds which is the same speed as the standard scrambler pistol. Total wtf there. so 218 damage is a kill to anyone not using shield extenders or not using caldari uniforms. and if shields are down instant kill on contact or damn near death by splash if not kill. guarantee. common tactics is flux than flaylock or Mass with flaylock to drain shielding to one hit kill or splash damage two hit kill regardless of being a heavy or not. I TESTED this check it out for yourself. Oh and your kills that require two shots are probably splash damage because contact shots are very hard to do, but the occasion arises when its more than one hit, why because they are using extenders. But for those who want to see real proof check out this guys youtube video of the flaylock. Pay attention how his aim is literally off the target by massive amount in close quarters. Long distance shots not so bad but usually spamming the shots and technically he is compensating for bullet drop but the drop is not that big anyone could do that (Tell me when you watch this video; how many times do you see him aim down his sights vs hip fire aiming). pay attention to the 2 shot kills that are done by splash damage or these guys health are already low vs the one hit kill. And those that do survive two hits probably have shield extenders. Oh and he gets 60points a kill because of the command ring on him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-45RspYrxwMy SOLUTION: just nerf the damage on Shielding. Keep the damage rate if your shields are down because if your rocking the caldari your solid but running gallente your in trouble. Balance right there by simply counter picking. if you skilled into gallente, well guess what there is some worth while grinding into caldari too for those gallante fellows who want to get an edge against those flaylocks. keep massive damage against armor but very little to shielding. This way the weapon still have value against heavies and gallente but strong shield guys will have the advantage if the enemy is spamming flaylock shots. This way kills with the flaylock are more intentional has more strategic value in combat. RE-Edited sections. Most people say that the best way to nerf it is to drop splash radius and firing rate. Im fine with that too. But its commonly complained that it is so strong for a side arm way to strong. What you are seeing when Fundies is flaylocking people is the same thing you would see with a Mass Driver. They have never been this effective or easy to aim though. This gun deserves a light touch with the nerf hammer, bleeding off some direct damage and a small amount of splash radius OR splash damage not both. Also rewatch that video, it is a collection of clips pieced together to make one song worth of kill footage. It isn't a full match of him running around and owning everyone so what you need to do if you want proof is ask Fundies nicely to record a pub match of flaylock fun in which he owns everyone and dies few times. The flaylock is not the only weapon with explosive damage and I would say it is explosive damage that needs a look at not the weapon itself. We do not have resistance plating like we do in Eve and can't just fit a module to deal with it. Perhaps some resistance plating could help, or reflective plating to reflect splash damage and laser fire. thats an interesting idea. And yes this isnt a full match but it wasn't suppose to be because i just wanted people to see the aiming aspect of the flaylock of how off people are when aiming the weapon. Showing a whole match not only takes too long but its difficult to hone in each situation of firefights. This montage shows individual firefights which helps the viewers get a good look at the control aspect. For example you can clearly see he is spamming shots by noticing he shots at least one or two extra times in certain firefights. |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Daxxis KANNAH wrote:The SMG is a sidearm too right - that can kill enemies in a clip or less. Same with the Pistol. Both even have higher than Proto level variants - You guys need to drop that part of your argument.
This has been discussed to death and as Cat says (streamline radius and RoF), that is probably the best.
If they are still too deadly then you scale back splash damage. Yes it is a sidearm but the different between this weapons is the accuracy of the firefights. The smg requires burst shots if in harsh mid close distance fights at times. The pistol has headshot bonus. BUT nobody has rocked those sidearms as primary. Clip size doesn't mean anything if reload time is quick and effective damage with an accuracy of by a whole meter. 1 meter blast radius is huge compare to dead on firing from bullets. |
Phantom Vaxer
The Generals EoN.
30
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well the direct damage vs splash damage is so small you really don't get penalized for not making a direct hit. |
Burntface man112
Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Minor Treat wrote:If you dont believe me see the information for yourself http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Flaylock_PistolThe standard flaylock pistol does 218 on contact and 195 on splash. Average standard drop suit medium runs under 200 hp for most of its shielding and armor. The reload time is 3 seconds which is the same speed as the standard scrambler pistol. Total wtf there. so 218 damage is a kill to anyone not using shield extenders or not using caldari uniforms. and if shields are down instant kill on contact or damn near death by splash if not kill. guarantee. common tactics is flux than flaylock or Mass with flaylock to drain shielding to one hit kill or splash damage two hit kill regardless of being a heavy or not. I TESTED this check it out for yourself. Oh and your kills that require two shots are probably splash damage because contact shots are very hard to do, but the occasion arises when its more than one hit, why because they are using extenders. But for those who want to see real proof check out this guys youtube video of the flaylock. Pay attention how his aim is literally off the target by massive amount in close quarters. Long distance shots not so bad but usually spamming the shots and technically he is compensating for bullet drop but the drop is not that big anyone could do that (Tell me when you watch this video; how many times do you see him aim down his sights vs hip fire aiming). pay attention to the 2 shot kills that are done by splash damage or these guys health are already low vs the one hit kill. And those that do survive two hits probably have shield extenders. Oh and he gets 60points a kill because of the command ring on him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-45RspYrxwMy SOLUTION: just nerf the damage on Shielding. Keep the damage rate if your shields are down because if your rocking the caldari your solid but running gallente your in trouble. Balance right there by simply counter picking. if you skilled into gallente, well guess what there is some worth while grinding into caldari too for those gallante fellows who want to get an edge against those flaylocks. keep massive damage against armor but very little to shielding. This way the weapon still have value against heavies and gallente but strong shield guys will have the advantage if the enemy is spamming flaylock shots. This way kills with the flaylock are more intentional has more strategic value in combat. RE-Edited sections. Most people say that the best way to nerf it is to drop splash radius and firing rate. Im fine with that too. But its commonly complained that it is so strong for a side arm way to strong. This ******* weapon is so Dumb, I see it alot where a whole team running Core Flaylock and i get them to there last drop of health and they turn around hop and spam that stupid ass handgun. I hope they nerf it till it dies. Look at this video! he aint even aiming, His is off his aim! there is not precision to splash damage. And Anyone who defends this weapon know they can't shot to say their life so they want their spam garbage. I swear i might quit DUST 514 if flaylocks keep running in Groups with a powerhouse sidearm
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bacon blaster
BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate
72
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 19:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Look, guys, I've been in fights with guys using flaylocks. Simple fact is, if he wants to kill you, he will. You can't out run it, you can't get away, you're generally dead before you find out about it.
You get off the first shot? Unless your a sniper at range, or a bloody tank, too bad. He wins.
The gun is a little bit op. It needs some serious nerfing to it's splash damage, or else there is no point in using other guns. |
BuTtHuRtPEepZ
Raging Pack of Homos
51
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 19:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Flaylock only seems OP bc the MD sucks. But i WILL admit that the kills flaylock gets are faster than the other sidearms. IMO,
1. swap the blast radius of MD and FL 2. do not change contact dmg 3. do not change splash dmg 4. reduce rate of fire 5. reduce ammo reserve size |
Dj grammer
Red Star Jr. EoN.
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 19:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
If anything I do have suggestions:
1.) Decrease the splash radius to make the gun feel like it is a secondary weapon or at least reduce the splash damage on the pistol
2.) How about increasing the reload time? This guns reloads faster than the Mass Driver (MD). How about you shoot one missile and then having to reload right after that?
3.) Decrease clip size. Instead of 3 rounds, give them two rounds to fire thus forcing them to reload more often making it not the ideal weapon of choice in CQC
4.) Decrease the rate of fire. People can shoot all three of their bullets in less than 10 seconds
5.) make it to where people cannot fit on 2 of the same class secondary weapons. Meaning you can put on a SMG and a flaylock but you cannot put on 2 flaylocks |
Dj grammer
Red Star Jr. EoN.
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 19:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Burntface man112 wrote:Minor Treat wrote:If you dont believe me see the information for yourself http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Flaylock_PistolThe standard flaylock pistol does 218 on contact and 195 on splash. Average standard drop suit medium runs under 200 hp for most of its shielding and armor. The reload time is 3 seconds which is the same speed as the standard scrambler pistol. Total wtf there. so 218 damage is a kill to anyone not using shield extenders or not using caldari uniforms. and if shields are down instant kill on contact or damn near death by splash if not kill. guarantee. common tactics is flux than flaylock or Mass with flaylock to drain shielding to one hit kill or splash damage two hit kill regardless of being a heavy or not. I TESTED this check it out for yourself. Oh and your kills that require two shots are probably splash damage because contact shots are very hard to do, but the occasion arises when its more than one hit, why because they are using extenders. But for those who want to see real proof check out this guys youtube video of the flaylock. Pay attention how his aim is literally off the target by massive amount in close quarters. Long distance shots not so bad but usually spamming the shots and technically he is compensating for bullet drop but the drop is not that big anyone could do that (Tell me when you watch this video; how many times do you see him aim down his sights vs hip fire aiming). pay attention to the 2 shot kills that are done by splash damage or these guys health are already low vs the one hit kill. And those that do survive two hits probably have shield extenders. Oh and he gets 60points a kill because of the command ring on him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-45RspYrxwMy SOLUTION: just nerf the damage on Shielding. Keep the damage rate if your shields are down because if your rocking the caldari your solid but running gallente your in trouble. Balance right there by simply counter picking. if you skilled into gallente, well guess what there is some worth while grinding into caldari too for those gallante fellows who want to get an edge against those flaylocks. keep massive damage against armor but very little to shielding. This way the weapon still have value against heavies and gallente but strong shield guys will have the advantage if the enemy is spamming flaylock shots. This way kills with the flaylock are more intentional has more strategic value in combat. RE-Edited sections. Most people say that the best way to nerf it is to drop splash radius and firing rate. Im fine with that too. But its commonly complained that it is so strong for a side arm way to strong. This ******* weapon is so Dumb, I see it alot where a whole team running Core Flaylock and i get them to there last drop of health and they turn around hop and spam that stupid ass handgun. I hope they nerf it till it dies. Look at this video! he aint even aiming, His is off his aim! there is not precision to splash damage. And Anyone who defends this weapon know they can't shot to say their life so they want their spam garbage. I swear i might quit DUST 514 if flaylocks keep running in Groups with a powerhouse sidearm
Dude not only that video proves how broken the weapon is, look how accurate the weapon is. I also find it stupid that it does 20% more to armour and that is due to the 10% weapon buff CCP put on each weapon. |
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