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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
581
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Posted - 2013.07.16 07:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
FIRST there will be another duplicate thread of this posted in feedback/suggestion before any of you go and say it..... I just want to hear what you guys think about this idea.
Recently the ability to "choose your side" in merc battles was made available, so in my mind this opens up the opportunity to.... well implement faction standings, and allow players to work towards something that isn't SP. So lets say you fight with the amar all the time. Win or lose your faction standing will go up a small margin all the way up to level 10 eventually. Obviously winning will give you a bigger boost then losing, as why would an empire admire you for constantly losing? In addition to faction standings you also earn faction specific "loyalty points" and "bonuses". As your faction standings go up, your faction bonuses increase, and the amount of loyalty points you make for that faction also increases.
Loyalty points can be used in the market to purchase faction specific weapon, suits and equipment. The higher your faction standing is, the higher level suits you'll be allowed to purchase. (assuming you have that faction's suit skills leveled up) For example, you might have a +10 standing with Amar, and you can purchase prototype Amar faction suits, HOWEVER because you don't have the "normal" racial suit skills upgraded you still wont be able to "use" the faction suit. To use the faction suit you, the player, will need level 5 in both the racial and basic suit operation skill, and the reason for this is because faction suits will have additional advantages over non-faction suits of the same tiers. For example these faction suits may have more CPU/PG, perhaps an extra high or low slot. Maybe there faster then the other suit variants, or perhaps they have some other benefit. They should also have a hefty isk price tagged along with the loyalty point cost. These suits should be the type of suits you pull out every once in a while just to have fun (or fight in serious corp matches).
Loyalty Bonuses go into how I think these matches should be run. If you select a merc contract for a faction, you are given a certain selection of fittings to use. In other words, you don't get to bring your own suits to the fight, the state provides you with clones that THEY made. As your standing for that nation goes up, you get to use better suits, or perhaps just get better bonuses using the already set suits. The standings could also allow you to get payed more upon completion of each battle, and also give you more SP (that partially does not count towards your cap).
CONCLUSION: This idea addresses the problem "noob" players have with getting proto-pub stomped all the time. If they don't like it, they can join a Faction battle and they will be on relatively even ground to any other player. This also gives players incentive to play outside of grinding for SP. Instead of SP grinding they would be Standings grinding, AND they would be rewarded for doing it. One thing to incentivize continual loyalty would be to have a slow "count down" effect on standings. For example, if a player doesn't play for a faction for more then 1 week, there standing will drop down by 1 point until it reaches zero.
So yeah..... does anyone have an opinion on this idea? like i said ill be putting this into the other, proper section too, i just want to see what the good and faithful community thinks. |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
583
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 08:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:Yes at the moment there is no "real" differance with FW except a different matchmaking... which commonally leads to full squads coming up against newbros.
FW needs an incentive, i dont think restricting the suits we can use through loyalty points is a good idea... a loyalty store where you can get faction mod's perhaps? or reduced faction suits...? tho i would say anything like that would have to wait for an open market.
Why would it have to wait for an Open market? How are sutis like that dependant on an open market in any way? Sure.... people who don't want to participate in FW would be dependant on a market if they wanted to circumvent the loyalty thing, but its not a necessity. AS for the "suit selection" i think this would be a good place to put those "regulated" matches people wanted in. You can even push it into the games lore by saying the "empires wanted you to wear their colors" or some other nonsense. If you want to fight people using your specialized gear, go do it in pub matches or corp matches. Having regulated gear in at-least one place would allow for those whom are less fortunate to play on "even" terms. Besides...... why would a caldari suit be fighting on the side of the gallente? That just doesn't make any sense...... (yeah yeah, clones whatever, im just sayin) |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
584
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 09:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:Marston VC wrote:ChromeBreaker wrote:Yes at the moment there is no "real" differance with FW except a different matchmaking... which commonally leads to full squads coming up against newbros.
FW needs an incentive, i dont think restricting the suits we can use through loyalty points is a good idea... a loyalty store where you can get faction mod's perhaps? or reduced faction suits...? tho i would say anything like that would have to wait for an open market. Why would it have to wait for an Open market? How are sutis like that dependant on an open market in any way? Sure.... people who don't want to participate in FW would be dependant on a market if they wanted to circumvent the loyalty thing, but its not a necessity. AS for the "suit selection" i think this would be a good place to put those "regulated" matches people wanted in. You can even push it into the games lore by saying the "empires wanted you to wear their colors" or some other nonsense. If you want to fight people using your specialized gear, go do it in pub matches or corp matches. Having regulated gear in at-least one place would allow for those whom are less fortunate to play on "even" terms. Besides...... why would a caldari suit be fighting on the side of the gallente? That just doesn't make any sense...... (yeah yeah, clones whatever, im just sayin) Il argue with you in a bit i need to go get some milk...
Lol, i need to get some sleep so i think ill pass out before you get back, but rest assured the debate will go on assuming you post something worth responding too  |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
591
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 16:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Standings are actually something we are looking at. We have a design rolling around for improvements to FW that involves them.
I am personally not a fan of loyalty points for a couple reasons; that doesn't mean they won't ever happen just a lot of discussion will have to happen first. They are another currency to keep track of, actually it would be 4 more currencies. It means we need equipment/weapons/dropsuits/whatever for all the races but they also need to be different so as to give reason to pick different faction but also balanced. There are lots of other reasons. That all being said there are also reasons for it, so down the road once we have a well set scheme for adding new items and player trading I can see us adding loyalty points.
Being given a certain selection of fittings will not happen. Our game is built on the idea of players consuming items. That and when you put all this time and effort into building custom fits, skilling into specific fits, and all that sort of stuff going into a more advanced game mode and being told you are limited to specific fits that you didn't create... that isn't so fun.
Good stuff though and thanks for sharing! :D
Right, i understand what you mean in regards to the extra currency and even the balancing issue. The reason i brought LP up is because, in my mind, it provides a more "reliable" means of obtaining items rather then hoping you get them via loot. However, after thinking about it..... There really isn't much a of a point to them. The faction items might as well just be sold for higher amounts of isk because its not the LP that unlocks the items for you, its your standing with that faction. So yeah..... LP, scrapped. Unless they could be used to get other, non isk items. Or Perhaps you can use LP like tags in eve and exchange them for isk? Not sure......
As far as balancing goes...... In my mind these "faction items" should only have a marginal performance increase for a premium price.
FOR EXAMPLE: A complex armor plate might cost 20k isk in the market, it provides 125 HP with a 30 CPU and 15 PG fitting requirement. The faction variant of this plate would cost 100k isk, but gives 135 HP with a 25 and 10 PG fitting requirement. This is an advantage, HOWEVER the cost of the plate makes it extremely risky to use. Because if someone is fitting a suit with all faction items the overall price of the suit should be well over 500k which is a huge amount to lose to something like a shotgunner/ sniper/ Lav ect.....
And as for the "limited fitting selection" Sure its not fun being restricted to one to three types of suits HOWEVER its equally as bad when the best suit you can run is a standard assault suit, when your surrounded by all these god squads rocking Proto/officer gear. This would be only one game mode, AND it wouldn't even have to be permanent if you guys come out with some sort of ulterior noob mode. I mean ive got 16M SP so this doesn't really bother/effect me. I just thought it was something nice to throw in considering that FW is something i view as a "starter" thing for newer players to get into. Kind of like..... getting used to the idea behind the game in a controlled environment. But yeah, i understand your point of view as well so..... mehhh I guess ill see how this all goes down the road. |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
591
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Thor McStrut wrote:
Here's a question for those presenting this design. If I grind to 5.0 standing with Caldari, and unlock some Navy level rail rifle, but choose to grind back my standing with Gallente by fighting for Minmatar, would/should I lose the ability to operate the Navy rail rifle once my standings dipped below 5.0 with Caldari?
Of course not, that wouldn't make any sense. If you could use it before you should always be able to use it. I see it is you gain standing with one of the empires and that standing gives you access to special stores with unique gear you pay for with ISK/AUR. If you however prefer to play in a Caldari dropsuit with a Gallente assault rifle you could simply work your way up in the standings for Caldari, stock up on loads and loads of the special Caldari dropsuit, then start working your way up in Gallente standings to buy the special assault rifles. You'd lose your access to purchase more of the special Caldari dropsuits, but you can still use the ones you already bought (provided you are skilled into them).
Yup, that's basically how i view it as. You should be able to fit whatever you want on whatever you want (so long as the requirements for PG/CPU are met) Having a +10 standing with a faction makes it so that you can finally purchase their faction specific items HOWEVER you need to have the skills for that race unlocked just like you would any other suit. AND you need to have level 5 in BOTH the racial AND basic skills. adding an additional 1M SP required to use said items. |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
591
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Razor Signal wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Standings are actually something we are looking at. We have a design rolling around for improvements to FW that involves them.
I am personally not a fan of loyalty points for a couple reasons; that doesn't mean they won't ever happen just a lot of discussion will have to happen first. They are another currency to keep track of, actually it would be 4 more currencies. It means we need equipment/weapons/dropsuits/whatever for all the races but they also need to be different so as to give reason to pick different faction but also balanced. There are lots of other reasons. That all being said there are also reasons for it, so down the road once we have a well set scheme for adding new items and player trading I can see us adding loyalty points.
Being given a certain selection of fittings will not happen. Our game is built on the idea of players consuming items. That and when you put all this time and effort into building custom fits, skilling into specific fits, and all that sort of stuff going into a more advanced game mode and being told you are limited to specific fits that you didn't create... that isn't so fun.
Good stuff though and thanks for sharing! :D Why would it have to be four specific currencies and not just a general currency; Faction Points? It could be one, universal currency used for whatever faction you want to focus on while your race would offer a racial bonus to your race's faction (toward points, 5-10%), assuming you fight on their side. Otherwise, you could use the currency to unlock whatever you like but you would only get to choose two different factions to use the points on. Once those factions are unlocked, there's no going back. Would make it so that loyalty Meant nothing as you could attain the points from fighting for anyone. Racial bonuses are badbecause it basically forces the player to fight for a faction they may not like to get the gear they want. THAT HOW IT WORKS. why don't people get that.... you aren't supposed to really be able to run Minmatar one day and then Amarr the next....it defeats the purpose of LOYALTY to your chosen faction.... Essentially I only even play dust for FW.... without a reason/ reward for being aligned to one faction and showing loyalty why do I even both. I love fighting for the Amarr..... but there is nothing more than my enthusiasm that is holding me to that....and some days I can't even find that enough to play this game.... Last thing I want to see is some Minmatar tool running around with a factionalised Amarrian laser rifle.... shows that that player was not only disloyal but only involved themselves in FW to get gear rather than even caring about the reasons for fighting.
How about this idea then. Under the rules stipulated in my original post, a player would lose 1 standing point every week they don't play for their faction HOWEVER if a player wants to get faction gear of every race, then what they could do instead is fight for..... well EVERY race. BUT theres a catch. As the amount of different races you fight for goes up, the rate at which your standings deteriorate ALSO goes up. So what this means is that, if you fight for all Four Races your standings will go down for all Four races 1 point EVERY DAY, instead of once every week. This means you "can" fight for all Four, but to maintain your standings you're standings with all four you've gotta work your ass off.
and it could even work a bit more dynamically then that too! Lets say you only want Amarr and Caldari gear, so you gain loyalty for both, and you lose your standings a bit quicker. However, the penalty for befriending both Amar and Caldari is less then befriending Amar and Minmatar simply because Caldari and Amar are less bitter towards each other in comparison to Minmatar and Amar. So in practice this means that, siding with Caldari and Amar will increase your standing deflation rate from once ever week to once every 5 days. Meanwhile if you did Minmatar and Amar the deflation rate will be Once every 3 days instead of 5. If you throw a third nation in it decreases to once every 2 days, with the fourth nation turning it into 1 point lost per day that you don't fight for your faction. ALSO KEEP IN MIND THAT, The 1 per day rate or any other rate will only be that fast as long as you have a standing with other nations. So if you get a +10 standing for Amar, but only +5 standings with the other three, your standings will deteriorate at 1 per day for 5 days until the only standing you have left is +5 with Amar which will then switch back to 1 point per week.
This idea in conclusion, would allow for players to fight for every faction if they chose..... it would just be FAR more difficult to pull it off because to maintain +10 standings with all four nations you would have to play a minimum of FOUR games per day, otherwise you'd lose the +10 and be unable to purchase anything from their stores..... Or at-least that's how i would do it. |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
591
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:True Adamance wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:I picture standings being like:
Fight a battle for the AMARR=
Standings shift:
Amarr +5
Minmatar -5
or
Amarr +5
Caldari +1
Minmatar -5
Gallente -1
If you decide to change factions somewhere down the road, you'd have to dig yourself out if you were going Minmatar from Amarr. This is appropriate for a system predicated on "Loyalty".
Standings unlock faction-related gear.
On the low end, basic armaments, like 100 Amarr standing = slightly improved militia variants (Royal Surplus Medium Frame, Royal Surplus Heavy Frame, Royal Surplus Scrambler pistol, etc.). These are priced in ISK.
Higher tiers unlock improved versions, and more expensive types of gear. STD guns/suits might be unlocked at the same time as faction militia vehicles. BPO items (priced in AUR) are also unlocked past the regular tier, so you might be at ADV level standing-wise before you can buy a special faction-variant of a STD dropsuit or weapon (similar to an Exile or Raven suit).
It's important that faction rewards actually be unique. The recruit assault rifle is a good example - it's actually different from the militia weapon it's copying (higher damage). Even minor improvements like that can be a good incentive. Standing is between 10.0 - 0.0 there is no reason to change it. Also standing should not be lost or accrued at a rapid rate. I said nothing about directly mirroring the EVE system, I was proposing a system for "Standings" - this is a word that exists exterior to EVE. Nothing I said suggested that we need some system existing on a 10.0 - 0 level. I was choosing arbitrary values that specifically (if you work on your reading comprehension, you can see where I refer to Amarr standing at 100. If we're gaining at a rate of +5 or whatever, the overall range might be a 1000 to -1000, with tiers for unlocks of varying types of gear being along the way. As for no reason to "change it" - it doesn't friggin exist in Dust, so there's nothing to change. The accrual I suggested wouldn't be particularly rapid. There's no reason to directly copy EVE either, as we're not getting most of what they get anyway. We didn't necessarily start playing this game to start "ground-EVE". A different system is fine.
I understand what your saying...... but..... i like EVE, i think its fun. I would like them to copy as much as they can from it because (aside from space combat) that stuff would make this game awesome! |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
591
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Allow pilots to pool ISK EVE side and mercs to pool ISK DUST side. If some pilots wanted to take a system easier they would add to the mercenary pool for the system they want control of and the pool of ISK would be divided up to battles. Mercs in DUST can see the ISK pool and decide to take the contract.
Mercs on the ground could pool ISK for pilots to plex EVE side. The pilots would see the pool of ISK and start the site and generate a battle. The pilots in system would receive a message telling the planet and district being fought over and request Orbital Support for ISK rewards. Send pilots a kill mail and ISK payment from the pooled mercenary ISK.
Allow players to pool ISK to encourage FW play. It would also open a small window for ISK transfers both ways and add more interactions between the games. We all talk about emergent game play and nothing creates content like money.
But that's just like giving money for money. Not to mention i don't see the reason either side would "pool" isk to the other. Theres no incentive to that. Its not like either side gets anything out of pooling isk..... so why bother doing it when you should still be able to play in the match to begin with? |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
591
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:No matter what the final system is... faction warfare should have unique rewards that you cannot get from playing in IB/PC in order to make the game mode worth playing.
I just hope you guys move away from the carebear IB system and make rewards based on performance... not time spent like it is in IB.
Whats IB? |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
591
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 17:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:No matter what the final system is... faction warfare should have unique rewards that you cannot get from playing in IB/PC in order to make the game mode worth playing.
I just hope you guys move away from the carebear IB system and make rewards based on performance... not time spent like it is in IB.
Instant battles? Cuz i mean..... you do get rewarded for playing better. If i do really well ill get 400k isk instead of 250k like normal. But i see what your saying. Don't worry, im pretty sure CCP will incentivize the hell out of FW. |
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Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
592
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 00:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Marston VC wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:No matter what the final system is... faction warfare should have unique rewards that you cannot get from playing in IB/PC in order to make the game mode worth playing.
I just hope you guys move away from the carebear IB system and make rewards based on performance... not time spent like it is in IB. Instant battles? Cuz i mean..... you do get rewarded for playing better. If i do really well ill get 400k isk instead of 250k like normal. But i see what your saying. Don't worry, im pretty sure CCP will incentivize the hell out of FW. I just mean, they need to work the system so that people aren't afk farming faction standings. and that running around derping in militia gear getting 150 WP in a match shouldn't get you far. FW should be for the proto pubstompers while IB is for the newbies trying to level up. and btw... for people like me.. isk is generally meaningless.
I viewed it as the other way around. The whole reason i proposed "set suit fittings" was to "even the playing field" for the noobs. You know..... throwing them a bone or two. I mean, FW should be a place for everyone in my opinion, Null sec PVP is where the "pros" go, not FW. And if your rocking a suit that costs 1M per fit I don't care how rich you are, you can only afford to lose those so often. Your right..... isk doesn't mean much at all right now (especially between veteran players like you or I) However, that's only because of the absence of something to spend all that money on. Theres nothing for us to buy that would actually dig into our wallets. Once CCP fills in that gap your Isk will mean a bit more to you. |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
592
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 00:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Marston VC wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Allow pilots to pool ISK EVE side and mercs to pool ISK DUST side. If some pilots wanted to take a system easier they would add to the mercenary pool for the system they want control of and the pool of ISK would be divided up to battles. Mercs in DUST can see the ISK pool and decide to take the contract.
Mercs on the ground could pool ISK for pilots to plex EVE side. The pilots would see the pool of ISK and start the site and generate a battle. The pilots in system would receive a message telling the planet and district being fought over and request Orbital Support for ISK rewards. Send pilots a kill mail and ISK payment from the pooled mercenary ISK.
Allow players to pool ISK to encourage FW play. It would also open a small window for ISK transfers both ways and add more interactions between the games. We all talk about emergent game play and nothing creates content like money. But that's just like giving money for money. Not to mention i don't see the reason either side would "pool" isk to the other. Theres no incentive to that. Its not like either side gets anything out of pooling isk..... so why bother doing it when you should still be able to play in the match to begin with? My team and I could put 2 M each up for an incentive for eve pilots to run a site. The pilots would get LP from EVE and ISK from DUST. The pilots in EVE would do the same type of thing if they want more control over a system. The payout from the battle would be better because the FW pilots would be adding ISK to the payout.
Again.... That's like giving isk for isk, only now you just magically create LP out of it. The system your trying to describe is fundamentally flawed in that your creating something out of nothing. FW, in my opinion, should be more for the standings and less for ISK. If you want ISK go find a PC corp and do good there. With a 2M pay out each match now..... PC is actually profitable to play these days. And 32M isk isn't much at all to an EVE pilot.... let alone a fleet of them. |
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