DUST Search - [Feedback] Sniper Rifles underpowered in planetary conquest.

Symbioticforks wrote:

Your comment about Thale's doing 1000 damage for a body shot was idiotic. With damage modules and maxed skill..

Thale's will hit for about 515. (using these regularly shouldn't be considered)
Charged will hit for about 466. (that's typically 2 shots to down a caldari logi)
Ishokune will hit for about 332. (that's typically 3 shots to down a caldari logi)
Tactical will hit for about 283. (that's typically 4 shots to down a caldari logi)

The number of shots I've given does not include when your target begins to flail around like an idiot even more than normal. Because hip firing with splash damage weapons and grenades isn't a thing. (or) Runs for cover to rapidly regenerate shields seeing as how your first shot will almost never fully deplete them ever. Headshots are unreliable and inconsistent. Way easier to obtain in pub matches simply because more people are standing still,moving in predictable patterns, and carelessly exposing themselves.

I generally feel a fully specced out sniper should be downing the average assault in 2 shots from an Ishokune and most definitely not 3. With a Charged 2 shots with no exception. The problem being that it's taking 3 shots way too often. And the Tactical no more than 3 shots. Why should it ever take 4 from a gun with 3 shots to a clip?

Anyway please don't confine snipers to a support role when individually they should be just as deadly as any assault or logistics for that matter from long range. Seeing as how they're not the ones running in capturing objectives they should at least have enough stopping power to hold them without having to fall back on officer gear.


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Bendtner92 Internal Error. League of Infamy 738	Posted - 2013.07.15 17:21:00 - [1] - Quote Headshots. Also support you're teammates when they're engaging the enemy. Doesn't matter whether you get the assist or kill as long as he dies. That you can't solo the entire team is a good thing. A sniper can cover a lot of areas at the same time, so I don't see why he should be able to 1-shot anyone, other than maybe Scouts? Unless you use the Thale's in which case you would also be able to 1-shot a lot of Logis and Assaults.
Bendtner92 Internal Error. League of Infamy 739	Posted - 2013.07.15 20:08:00 - [2] - Quote loumanchew wrote: Not just in PC. I have never seen a game where sniper rifles were so weak. Weak? 600+ damage with a headshot with the Ishukone is quite a lot to be honest. Especially with how easy sniping is overall.
Bendtner92 Internal Error. League of Infamy 741	Posted - 2013.07.15 23:39:00 - [3] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: Headshots. Also support your teammates when they're engaging the enemy. Doesn't matter whether you get the assist or kill as long as he dies. That you can't solo the entire team is a good thing. A sniper can cover a lot of areas at the same time, so I don't see why he should be able to 1-shot anyone, other than maybe Scouts? Unless you use the Thale's in which case you would also be able to 1-shot a lot of Logis and Assaults. That's what I'm saying Thales won't 1-shot a large portion of scouts even let alone the new and improved bread and butter caldari logi. Meaning the other rifles generally available are pretty underpowered. I'm not debating what it takes for a sniper to be effective outside a much needed damage increase or weapon available similar to Thale's on the market. That's funny since the Thale's does about 500 body damage and about 900 headshot damage, which is enough to 1-shot pretty much all Scouts, Logis and Assaults. The only way for a Logi or Assault to survive that headshot is to fully stack extenders and plates. The Ishukone is still deadly as it is with about 600 headshot damage as well.
Bendtner92 Internal Error. League of Infamy 743	Posted - 2013.07.17 07:29:00 - [4] - Quote Clyffton Donovan wrote: I agree with this. In PC it is, depending on the map, fairly hard to get a headshot. I don't think it should be a ton more power, but I do think that the damage spread between a NT511 and an Ishukone should be more than 10.5hp. Especially since the cost difference is 22k. A complex damage modifier does more for it and only cost 5,595 isk. Five complex damage mods (proto minmatar basic) only brings you up 28.25%, which on a Thale brings the damage to 455.67. Proficiency brings it up to 498.31 assuming your prof is lv5. A Proto Sentinel has 405 shields and armor for a total of 810. Add 4 Complex Armor Plates it brings the total up to 1270. With one Com. Shield Ext its 1336. Add in the shield and armor bonuses the best case in numbers for a sentinel with full skills is 1591.1. Now I know this is improbable and heavies are supposed to soak up damage, but this is a bit extreme. Fail post is fail. Five damage mods add 31.7% damage, so a Thale's with proficiency 5 and five damage mods does 538 damage (355 * 1,15 * 1,317). Using three damage mods instead of five doesn't drastically lower the damage (with three damage mods the damage is 516). A headshot with five damage mods does way more than 900 damage, which is just an incredibly stupid amount of damage. A Sentinel with 1500 HP have all the slots filled with extenders and plates. He'll have no local rep and he'll move slower than a snail. A sniper doesn't deserve to take him out in less than three bodyshots in that case. Just no way. 1500 HP is merely two headshots, get good at getting them.
Bendtner92 Internal Error. League of Infamy 743	Posted - 2013.07.17 11:19:00 - [5] - Quote George Moros wrote: The headshot argument is ridiculous. You can only get headshots on a distant moving target by sheer chance. Even if it's a heavy suit, you're usually talking about a 1 pixel margin of error in order to get a hit. The only reliable headshots a sniper can get are noobs (you won't find those in PC) and other snipers (which usually don't need a headshot to take down anyway). The problem is that sniper rifle damage doesn't scale proportionally with dropsuit tank as you move up through tiers/meta levels. That's the reason you can get 30-40 kills per match in some fights and maybe 2-3 kills and a couple of assists in others. Taking down a skilled proto assault player is next to impossible with a single clip of ammo, assuming the proto guy is at full health and not sleeping/answering the phone. And if you need to be fully specced in snipers, use a freakin' officer weapon and a full stack of complex damage mods to be somewhat effective sniper in top-level matches, it is a clear indication that something is wrong with game balance. Long post incoming as I fell there's several points to address. Also Tal-Rakken's post just below yours have some really great points in it as well. Headshots to hard: Well, I don't know really, maybe you're just not good enough? I don't mean to offend you, but of course some players are better than others, and it doesn't really seem like the best snipers in this game have the same problems as you. If you can't hit them from the redline (as it sounds like you're just sitting in the redline), maybe move up a little? Proto suits need too many shots to kill: The Ishukone does about 350 damage and about 600 headshot damage, which means that you can kill any non-heavy in 3 bodyshots no matter how many extenders and plates they have. Add in some headshots in that equation and you can kill them in 2 shots. Is that too many shots needed? Personally I don't think so, especially not with the way the maps are set up. Snipers can cover a lot of areas at the same time, so they should absolutely not be able to almost instant kill anyone (except for scouts to some degree). The snipers don't scale enough between the tiers: This part I can actually understand your concerns. It's not a problem for snipers only, but for weapons like the shotgun as well. The militia/standard shotgun is not that much worse than the proto one, so in a lot of cases you don't really have to use the proto one. However all weapons (except for only the laser rifle as far as I know) increases by 5% damage between each tier. Back in the closed beta they increased by 10%. This is something that I do find a little odd. It might be perfectly balanced for some weapons, but for weapons like the sniper and shotgun I can see it might be a problem. The militia/standard sniper is just fine, but I can see that the advanced and proto might could use a very slight buff. For them to get that CCP needs to go away from all weapons getting the same damage increase between the tiers. Need to be fully specced into snipers and use damage mods to be useful as sniper: I don't know why this would be a problem to be honest. Do you want to give the snipers a damage buff, so that when you DO have proficiency 5 and use a Thale's with five damage mods you do 1000 damage for bodyshots? It's exactly set up so that it's balanced when you're at the top level as well. Why would a sniper not use as many damage mods as possible (also by previous numbers the fourth and fifth damage mod don't add an insane amount of damage, so you can still just use three damage mods)?
Bendtner92 Internal Error. League of Infamy 747	Posted - 2013.07.17 15:47:00 - [6] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Your comment about Thale's doing 1000 damage for a body shot was idiotic. With damage modules and maxed skill.. Thale's will hit for about 515. (using these regularly shouldn't be considered) Charged will hit for about 466. (that's typically 2 shots to down a caldari logi) Ishokune will hit for about 332. (that's typically 3 shots to down a caldari logi) Tactical will hit for about 283. (that's typically 4 shots to down a caldari logi) The number of shots I've given does not include when your target begins to flail around like an idiot even more than normal. Because hip firing with splash damage weapons and grenades isn't a thing. (or) Runs for cover to rapidly regenerate shields seeing as how your first shot will almost never fully deplete them ever. Headshots are unreliable and inconsistent. Way easier to obtain in pub matches simply because more people are standing still,moving in predictable patterns, and carelessly exposing themselves. I generally feel a fully specced out sniper should be downing the average assault in 2 shots from an Ishokune and most definitely not 3. With a Charged 2 shots with no exception. The problem being that it's taking 3 shots way too often. And the Tactical no more than 3 shots. Why should it ever take 4 from a gun with 3 shots to a clip? Anyway please don't confine snipers to a support role when individually they should be just as deadly as any assault or logistics for that matter from long range. Seeing as how they're not the ones running in capturing objectives they should at least have enough stopping power to hold them without having to fall back on officer gear. My comment about the Thale's doing 1000 body damage was in response to the other guy saying that it's stupid the snipers only do insane amount of damage if you have proficiency 5 and are fully stacked on damage mods. I then responded asking him what would happen if they gave snipers a damage buff, to which the answer is that with proficiency 5 and stacked on damage mods a Thale's would be doing 1000 body damage. I'm fully aware of how much damage a Thale's can do now, I believe I even gave you those numbers earlier in the thread. Snipers ARE a support role. They're not supposed to roflstomp the other team. If you would actually give support fire to where your team are you would be getting a lot of assists and kills, instead of trying to solo the entire other team in places where none of your teammates are.