DUST Search - Suggestion: Threat Levels for Players in Matchmaking [THIS IS FOR ALL OF YOU PLA...

Reno Pechieu wrote:

Landari Zeta wrote:

Well, the biggest problem with that idea Reno is the one I already stated. Even people with prototype weapons often mix and match with other gear, so getting thrown into a high tier game because you only have one prototype weapon is almost unfair. The whole point on this isn't to get rid of people with good gear, its to keep them and everyone else together based on their overall skillpoints.

Skillpoints are the things that dictate the ability to use high level gear in the first place, so I guess you could say my system inadvertently separates people by gear anyways.

Well, you explained it a bit better now.
It wouldnGÇÖt be automatic; people should choose if they want a high, low or null-sec battles.
And as you see, while playing a low-sec you can still use advance gear, and you can continue playing low-sec until you feel ready to start fighting against people with both advance and proto gear in null-sec.

Also, how would the SP system work?
Based on how much SP total you have? Okey, sucks if youGÇÖre like me and bought some skills you didnGÇÖt need at the start. No take backsies I recon.
On how high the highest skill? This can easy lead to abuse, as people will mini-max to get the best possible gear without moving up in the bracket just so they can get easy kills.
Based on how much SP invested total? Again, people are going to mini-max it as hard as they can.

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Landari Zeta Exit Wound Heavy Industries 20	Posted - 2013.07.15 04:14:00 - [1] - Quote Introduction to the Problem Unfortunately, the new player experience for DUST is one of the worst in the industry and its causing your game to bleed players every day. This is something I dearly want to see stop. The player base might seem "healthy" for the time being but I want to see new people try DUST 514 and love it and want to stay. I would rather not see DUST 514 be one of those games with a niche community of only people who played it for a long time. CCP envisioned a game with hundreds of thousands of constant players. That won't happen if your new players keep getting eaten alive during their first experience. "Please Landari, people get ripped apart in any new FPS these days. This isn't unusual." Yes this is unusual. It is one thing to 'break' into a new game by playing it if you know its going to be fun. Its another thing entirely if you are trying out a game you saw online because it looked interesting. For example, I am speaking of those people who heard about DUST 514 through a magazine, website, or a friend and thought it was cool so they gave it a try. In their first game they end up 0/10 by the ever dreadful 80GJ Neutron Blaster and instantly declare, "Sht game, I'm out," and never come back. Now I'm not talking about impulsive rage quitters, but people who simply have ineffective skills and gear to deal with veterans. "But Landari, new guys have Militia Swarm Launchers and Forge Guns! Anybody with 'real' skill shouldn't worry about who they are up against! Powerful Militia Weapons are already far too accessible!"* No, shut up and listen. This game is not a normal FPS. It is not new player friendly. CCP knows it, veterans know it, and I sure as hell know it. Even game journalists everywhere know it and they aren't afraid to spread the bad word. My solution would also help alleviate the Militia Weapon crisis. The Solution The Threat Level System It may sound lame but hear me out. It would organize players not by wealth or K:D ratio, but by Skillpoints. By implementing Skillpoints into DUST 514 you have created a system you can use to separate your players by total accumulated Skillpoints for public matches. I know several players who quit simply because getting rolled by a Marauder while waving around your Militia Gear on a fresh character is very frustrating. Ask me how I know. "How do you know Landari?" Well that's easy. I was one of the new guys who was massacred. Me, a friend of mine, and everyone else who has DUST 514 uninstalled. The only reason I bother posting this is so that there is the faintest hope for a bright future. "Oh you are just another noob crying about overpowered guns! Hey mods, delete this thread please!" No, shut up you piece of sht and listen. "Okay, how do you plan on getting people to stay Landari? Take away all the strong guns?"* Weapon balance is a different topic already well expressed by the community. I need not say more. "Okay, I'll listen. Instead of using Skillpoints why not use my K:D ratio? Wouldn't that make more sense? What about those people who dump Skillpoints into Logistics and other non-lethal skills? Are they doomed to be killed by pros?" Regarding your K:D ratio, no, it won't. I bet you are one of those newbie slayers who camp corners with Mass Drivers. K:D is not a reliable gauge for skill. Maybe there can be an Efficiency Level alongside the Threat Level System for people who want to advertise their killing power to large corporations, but it sure as hell should not be used as a variable in matchmaking. Also, people who choose to specialize in something like Logistics should still be placed in higher brackets. The reason being they still provide substantial team support with their high level skills and gear and would have a similar effect as a Logistics ship does in EVE: they make strong things unkillable. "Well okay, get on with your point then." In some lobby based games, a system similar to my Threat Level System is already in place and has been used with much success. In these games they are called Tiers or Ranks. A 500k SP rookie would be placed in a bracket with other rookies in a "low threat" bracket. People of 5m-8m SP for example could be placed in a "moderate threat" bracket and so forth. The truly high Skillpoint and heavily equipped players would be thrown into a "high threat" match (come on, imagine being officially labeled a High Threat Mercenary; everyone wins). "But Landari, Wargaming and Gaijin has sht matchmaking, I've played their games!"* No, the matchmaking isn't bad. You simply want to be the most powerful person in the game and you're not, therefore you are upset. A team comprised of a bunch of low skill players will mostly be shooting at each other with Militia Assault Rifles and those who are smarter will be killing others with stronger Militia Gear and Vehicles from the Market. My point being is that it is a safe place for new players to have a little fun and experiment before getting thrown to the wolves. Conclusion So basically my proposed system will keep new, veteran, and experienced players all in their own separate matchmaking queues based on their total Skillpoints and maybe a few other unknown variables. New players will use their Militia Gear against each other and prototype weapon users will have a true clash of titans in their own high tier bracket. This of course was written for public matches and not for private or corporate conflicts. This will be a large step in the direction it takes to keep new players engaged and entertained with DUST 514.
Landari Zeta Exit Wound Heavy Industries 20	Posted - 2013.07.15 06:45:00 - [2] - Quote Additional "Questions" welcome.
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 197	Posted - 2013.07.15 07:55:00 - [3] - Quote While I agree that new players may be ineffective I find the lack of skill points is not at all the problem. Yes they have no specialized gear and probably have no idea how to fit a dropsuit or that there is a market that they can buy gear from, but me and several other Hellstorm members have tried out the new player experience in Militia fits and have found that with the base level gear and 500,000 skill points you too can annihilate the other team provided you form a squad and use basic tactics that squads work with if they have any fps skill at all. How do you propose corps recruit fresh talent if the only pool they have to draw from are the 10-20mil SP players that they are already playing with? The mix of SP levels on the battlefield allows us to draw in new players who have some skill and show good attitude when they join our squads and have comms to discuss what is going on. What you seem to be proposing is that people lose that option of running with a fresh recruit straight out of the academy, which already does put fresh rookies in with fresh rookies. This has already been suggested and CCP has responded with the battle academy. The real problem is the lack of communication that someone who has just installed the game has. Voice comms should be active by default and in the battle academy the squads should fill automatically as people join the battle so that the few more experienced in the ways of Dust can chat with them and explain "we are going to X point on the map to shoot people coming from Y". This is the problem. Not the lack of SP divisions. Many people play a game for months before they understand how to best play for good results. Many will also only pick up the controller and be naturals. The only way to both help the ones who need it and to find the ones who don't is to be able to mingle in the Pub matches. It is also not just the new people who get ripped apart. Many of the matches I play in put me in matches where my squad are the only ones that actually use their comms or have any desire to work with me. Often the teams are unbalanced due to the varying skill levels and it makes for very one sided battles on a regular basis. Your proposal would fix this issue but I don't believe it would solve the other issue, the new player experience. It can be hard if you don't understand the value of a good corp or the positive effect that being able to talk with your team mates can have on the game. This is why there are NPC corps which are automatic, voice comms should also be automatic.
Sarducar Kahn xCosmic Voidx The Superpowers 4	Posted - 2013.07.15 12:03:00 - [4] - Quote I am a pilot (poor me) so I am running0sp militia fits, players in the academy probably have better fits than me but with a good squad I can get 10-15/0-5 and without one I can go 5-9/2-4. We need communication, skill is there or it isn't buy communication needs to be actively worked on, the problem is that there is nobody in the academy to promote this, unless some pros take one fore the team and take an alt or two back to train up the noobs.
ALPHA DECRIPTER M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 63	Posted - 2013.07.15 12:40:00 - [5] - Quote wow all 3 posts are constructive... didn't actually see that coming The OP has a good idea but doesn't help the players that are naturally good. No honorable person would want to be stuck with a bunch of poor players unless they too are not that good (yet). Draco kinda took the words right off of my keyboard so really don't have much else to type. I suppose the best way to sum up how I feel is by typing: What Sarducar and Draco wrote: (you both make really good points ^_^)
Reno Pechieu Algintal Core Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2013.07.15 12:47:00 - [6] - Quote While IGÇÖm unsure how much perks (the effects you gain by investing in skills) changes your char, my main impression is that gear has the final word in the matter. So one way could be to have three different matchups with different restrictions and rewards. High sec; Militia and Standard gear only. (This could replace the Academy.) Low sec; Standard and Advance gear only. Null sec; Advance and Prototype gear only.
Sarducar Kahn xCosmic Voidx The Superpowers 6	Posted - 2013.07.15 13:06:00 - [7] - Quote Reno Pechieu wrote: While IGÇÖm unsure how much perks (the effects you gain by investing in skills) changes your char, my main impression is that gear has the final word in the matter. So one way could be to have three different matchups with different restrictions and rewards. High sec; Militia and Standard gear only. (This could replace the Academy.) Low sec; Standard and Advance gear only. Null sec; Advance and Prototype gear only. Vehicles will need tons of work before they can fit into that, and we know how long that will take (well we don't but was can guess)
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 330	Posted - 2013.07.15 13:34:00 - [8] - Quote Reno Pechieu wrote: High sec; Militia and Standard gear only. (This could replace the Academy.) Low sec; Standard and Advance gear only. Null sec; Advance and Prototype gear only. No, ** off. Gear-based matchmaking is the worst** idea, and CCP has already shot it down. They're already working on a matchmaking system anyway, which is probably some combination of hidden ELO ratings, skill points, and other measures of skill. Also, OP. I get killed by militia grenades and militia ARs plenty in fits costing upward of 40k, generally because someone has achieved a tactical advantage over me by my mistake or their own luck. The real problem is that new players aren't using voice comms, aren't joining squads, and are still learning to play the game. Also, people continually point towards SP and gear, because rookies see the proto suit and the proto weapon, and they're neglecting the other disadvantages newer players have, such as not knowing how to correctly fit a suit and use the right modules. This is also something remedied when new players engage socially with teammates and corpmates. Dust is probably the only fps where I can say I regularly use voice comms more often than not, even when playing with total strangers. If you come into the game thinking it'll be another console FPS where communication is a secondary consideration, you'll lose badly.
Landari Zeta Exit Wound Heavy Industries 21	Posted - 2013.07.15 19:37:00 - [9] - Quote Yes, you all have valid points. However. Raw talent does have a lot to do with people doing well, but I am trying to think from a general organizational point of view. You there are very few, if not zero, ways to organize players based on their "raw skill" alone. For example, look at League of Legends. Everyone is placed in a bracket based on their overall rating, not by overall skill. People who play the game religiously and break their backs to get to their current rating are skilled players who deserve to be there. but there are also people who casually get lucky and make their way alongside the aforementioned player. That system has worked magnificently so far despite the occasional noob crying about it. A similar system could be considered for DUST 514 based on Skillpoints. Its not a solid or definitive measure of skill by any means, but it would work well enough to where we would have a higher ratio of people who belong there to people who AFK farm SP, if anyone understands what I mean. There will be some people who get into the, lets say, 5m-8m bracket by power grinding SP who would have acquired skill in the process while there will be some people who passive SP farm up to the 5m-8m bracket, but there wouldn't be as many of those as there would be of active SP players. Yes, and while communication and squad play is critical to success in DUST 514, we have to face the fact that for the foreseeable future public matches will be littered with "lone wolves" who just want to hop in and play. For those of you who want to squad up, maybe it should place your squad in a bracket with the highest SP member of your team instead of a middle ground.
Landari Zeta Exit Wound Heavy Industries 21	Posted - 2013.07.15 19:41:00 - [10] - Quote Hell, even if CCP is developing a new matchmaking system I think they should give this a look over. Maybe even create an entirely different playlist for my system for people who want to play with their own skill group. They can keep the current public playlist while also incorporating another using this system. Squad players would be happy as well as newbies who don't know the front end of the gun from the back.

Landari Zeta Exit Wound Heavy Industries 22	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:25:00 - [11] - Quote Shameless self-bump.
Reno Pechieu Algintal Core Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:39:00 - [12] - Quote Oso Peresoso wrote: Reno Pechieu wrote: High sec; Militia and Standard gear only. (This could replace the Academy.) Low sec; Standard and Advance gear only. Null sec; Advance and Prototype gear only. No, ** off. Gear-based matchmaking is the worst** idea, and CCP has already shot it down. They're already working on a matchmaking system anyway, which is probably some combination of hidden ELO ratings, skill points, and other measures of skill. Also, OP. I get killed by militia grenades and militia ARs plenty in fits costing upward of 40k, generally because someone has achieved a tactical advantage over me by my mistake or their own luck. The real problem is that new players aren't using voice comms, aren't joining squads, and are still learning to play the game. Also, people continually point towards SP and gear, because rookies see the proto suit and the proto weapon, and they're neglecting the other disadvantages newer players have, such as not knowing how to correctly fit a suit and use the right modules. This is also something remedied when new players engage socially with teammates and corpmates. Dust is probably the only fps where I can say I regularly use voice comms more often than not, even when playing with total strangers. If you come into the game thinking it'll be another console FPS where communication is a secondary consideration, you'll lose badly. CanGÇÖt say I see the problem, this solution would also prevent people from going free gear the second things get hard (In Low and Null-sec battles) And if they have other plans, they better hurry. And as stated before, demanding everyone to sequel a event just to have some GÇ£funGÇ¥ isnGÇÖt fun, some folks just want to be able to jump in, enjoy a shooter in a setting they think is cool and log off. I got Voice, but that doesnGÇÖt magical result in every random group having Voice as well. And so far, what I have seen affect gameplay most, is the use of Advance or Proto gear versus Militia or Standard gear.
Landari Zeta Exit Wound Heavy Industries 22	Posted - 2013.07.15 22:58:00 - [13] - Quote Well, the biggest problem with that idea Reno is the one I already stated. Even people with prototype weapons often mix and match with other gear, so getting thrown into a high tier game because you only have one prototype weapon is almost unfair. The whole point on this isn't to get rid of people with good gear, its to keep them and everyone else together based on their overall skillpoints. Skillpoints are the things that dictate the ability to use high level gear in the first place, so I guess you could say my system inadvertently separates people by gear anyways.
Reno Pechieu Algintal Core Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.07.15 23:39:00 - [14] - Quote Landari Zeta wrote: Well, the biggest problem with that idea Reno is the one I already stated. Even people with prototype weapons often mix and match with other gear, so getting thrown into a high tier game because you only have one prototype weapon is almost unfair. The whole point on this isn't to get rid of people with good gear, its to keep them and everyone else together based on their overall skillpoints. Skillpoints are the things that dictate the ability to use high level gear in the first place, so I guess you could say my system inadvertently separates people by gear anyways. Well, you explained it a bit better now. It wouldnGÇÖt be automatic; people should choose if they want a high, low or null-sec battles. And as you see, while playing a low-sec you can still use advance gear, and you can continue playing low-sec until you feel ready to start fighting against people with both advance and proto gear in null-sec. Also, how would the SP system work? Based on how much SP total you have? Okey, sucks if youGÇÖre like me and bought some skills you didnGÇÖt need at the start. No take backsies I recon. On how high the highest skill? This can easy lead to abuse, as people will mini-max to get the best possible gear without moving up in the bracket just so they can get easy kills. Based on how much SP invested total? Again, people are going to mini-max it as hard as they can.
Landari Zeta Exit Wound Heavy Industries 22	Posted - 2013.07.16 00:05:00 - [15] - Quote Reno Pechieu wrote: Landari Zeta wrote: Well, the biggest problem with that idea Reno is the one I already stated. Even people with prototype weapons often mix and match with other gear, so getting thrown into a high tier game because you only have one prototype weapon is almost unfair. The whole point on this isn't to get rid of people with good gear, its to keep them and everyone else together based on their overall skillpoints. Skillpoints are the things that dictate the ability to use high level gear in the first place, so I guess you could say my system inadvertently separates people by gear anyways. Well, you explained it a bit better now. It wouldnGÇÖt be automatic; people should choose if they want a high, low or null-sec battles. And as you see, while playing a low-sec you can still use advance gear, and you can continue playing low-sec until you feel ready to start fighting against people with both advance and proto gear in null-sec. Also, how would the SP system work? Based on how much SP total you have? Okey, sucks if youGÇÖre like me and bought some skills you didnGÇÖt need at the start. No take backsies I recon. On how high the highest skill? This can easy lead to abuse, as people will mini-max to get the best possible gear without moving up in the bracket just so they can get easy kills. Based on how much SP invested total? Again, people are going to mini-max it as hard as they can. Yeah, I too have been thinking about people who would strategically dump skillpoints. Well, lets say someone makes a fresh character and passive SP farms up 3m SP. If he chooses to dump all that SP and go straight for Prototype gear, he would still be incredibly specialized and would be lacking in other points. He may be running around with some high-end HMG, but his dropsuit would be less than a match for more rounded off players who would be using above Militia grade by that point. For players who recklessly spent skillpoints on a little bit of everything, that itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. That simply would mean they would have access to a little bit of everything instead of a few bits of specialized gear. Of course when faced against a guy with a prototype Heavy suit with a big gun, he wouldn't do too well, but chances are he would drop an HAV with an above standard gun to take care of him when he respawns.
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 199	Posted - 2013.07.16 14:12:00 - [16] - Quote Communication is the start of fixes and by far not the end. Having a training area with friendly fire on and being able to choose from any class of weapon with no skill requirements (in the training area) would help teach our newer players how to shoot and what to do in any given circumstance. Opening up the planets owned by a corp could help this. There is a lot of time in a 24 hr period when those planets are not being attacked. Deploying there to practice skill use and maneuvers would be an excellent addition to the game. In support of this idea I could list all the corps in Eve that I have been in that offered training sessions, but I won't because I don't kiss and tell. Before anyone says it I will, what about the corps that don't have a district? There are a great number of planets in New Eden, surely the one line of code to start PC in other districts on New Eden will be used one day, also, if a corp is looking to get a district I will remind all players that this is a mercenary game, contacting a corp that has districts and asking to purchase on is a perfectly legitimate way of acquiring them.


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