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Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
250
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Posted - 2013.07.14 18:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
After being a pilot for a long time, i have finally out-fitted my DS with a proto fitting that i believe to be the best that dropships can get right now (it's still fragile as hell), and i am really interested in finding out whos fits allow them to survive really hostile situations, such as railgun redline snipers, proto-forge gun or swarm attacks, etc. And still escape with their dropship in-tact and not destroyed, and if so, how many matches do they go without losing 1 dropship? As pilots, not too many risk their DS every match but i have been doing just that in an attempt to turn out a very small profit, and often i find myself being able to either "float" on a certain amount (making however much i lose in ds destruction) or sometimes even going below profit by losing 1 dropship every 5 matches (the amount i need to win to make back 1 ADS python is about 8 matches). So pilots; can any of you confidently report that you can, with your fitting, make enough to start a profit going? Or is there only struggle in this attempt? And if successful, what are your fittings? I'll post mine here as well.
Python:
High Modules- 2 Ward Shield Amplifiers (Shield resist becomes 30%), 1 Azeotropic Ward Shield Extender, and 1 Basic Afterburner
Low Modules - 1 Jovian Fusion Powerplant (Torque bonus of 17.6%), Light Payload Control System (Missle damage increase 10%)
Turrets - 2 XT-Fragmented Missle Launchers (sides), 1 XT - Accelerated Missle Launcher (Front, Pilot controlled turret)
Explained: This assault fit allows for versitile reactions against infantry units or shield tanks on the battlefield, it's advantage is the range from the main XT-Accelerated turret and the damage is also the best that missle turrets can produce, this coupled with the light payload control system II (10% missle damage increase) makes them even more deadly, and once you get good at leading shots you can really reap the kills in with this, and if hit by a forge gun or proto swarms, the Basic Afterburner makes you able to really get out of a sitation quick, especially when coupled with 1 Jovian Fusion Powerplant which gives the best torque bonus a module can provide.
Survivability Average: 1 loss for every 5 or 6 matches. (Around 150-180K ISK per match) (This is also dis-crediting RDV collisions which sometimes take even more from me) |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
250
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 18:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Back when I still flew my incubus (got too expensive) I lost it every other battle Yikes that would suck :P I can see why you got fed up and got a respec |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
250
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 18:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Knight SoIaire wrote:When I used the Assault DS, most of my losses were due to RDV collisions, not AV.
I remember how happy I was when a corpmate and I took out a Bolas together in our Assault DSes, only to later, be struck down by another RDV.
150k ISK per match isn't enough, for fielding such expensive equipment we should get higher rewards, especially since our DSes can be struck down by drunk RDVs.
Curious though, what do you do when you get hit? With no shield booster I assume you have to stay out of the fight for a long time. When i get hit i use my fuel injector to make a quick escape, and often railgun tanks and forge gunners don't have enough time to land a second hit after i activate my fuel injector and get out of there, however it's never 100% guarenteed because sometimes they land a really good shot and take me down, but that's about 30% of the time when i use my fuel injector. But i share your pain, 150K isn't enough per match to make back anything considerable, and to make any profit you have to do some amazing flying and knowing when/when not to engage enemies. |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
250
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 18:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The stats on that are horribly off... i have 1,860 shield yet 30% reisistance from my 2 shield resist modules. |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
250
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 19:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
ConsiderateSmurf wrote:Mine dosen't have any mobility modules. :P Python
High Powered 3 Azeotropic Shield Extenders 1 Shield Booster
Low Powered: 1 LP Control System 1 Local Powergrid Expansion Unit
Turrets: 3 XT Fragmented Missile Launchers
The benefit to this is that I can shrug off a few swarms. The downside is if anyone brings in a fancy forge gun that can two shot me, I can't get away as easily (about a 40% survival rate, if I had to guess) Yeah just keep skilling into the better ones that have more CPU/PG so you can have both mobility and defense, in my opinion having a good balance of both makes for the best survival. |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
250
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 19:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Crimson Judgment wrote:Serimos Haeraven wrote:After being a pilot for a long time, i have finally out-fitted my DS with a proto fitting that i believe to be the best that dropships can get right now (it's still fragile as hell), and i am really interested in finding out whos fits allow them to survive really hostile situations, such as railgun redline snipers, proto-forge gun or swarm attacks, etc. And still escape with their dropship in-tact and not destroyed, and if so, how many matches do they go without losing 1 dropship? As pilots, not too many risk their DS every match but i have been doing just that in an attempt to turn out a very small profit, and often i find myself being able to either "float" on a certain amount (making however much i lose in ds destruction) or sometimes even going below profit by losing 1 dropship every 5 matches (the amount i need to win to make back 1 ADS python is about 8 matches). So pilots; can any of you confidently report that you can, with your fitting, make enough to start a profit going? Or is there only struggle in this attempt? And if successful, what are your fittings? I'll post mine here as well.
Python:
High Modules- 2 Ward Shield Amplifiers (Shield resist becomes 30%), 1 Azeotropic Ward Shield Extender, and 1 Basic Afterburner
Low Modules - 1 Jovian Fusion Powerplant (Torque bonus of 17.6%), Light Payload Control System (Missle damage increase 10%)
Turrets - 2 XT-Fragmented Missle Launchers (sides), 1 XT - Accelerated Missle Launcher (Front, Pilot controlled turret)
Explained: This assault fit allows for versitile reactions against infantry units or shield tanks on the battlefield, it's advantage is the range from the main XT-Accelerated turret and the damage is also the best that missle turrets can produce, this coupled with the light payload control system II (10% missle damage increase) makes them even more deadly, and once you get good at leading shots you can really reap the kills in with this, and if hit by a forge gun or proto swarms, the Basic Afterburner makes you able to really get out of a sitation quick, especially when coupled with 1 Jovian Fusion Powerplant which gives the best torque bonus a module can provide.
Survivability Average: 1 loss for every 5 or 6 matches. (Around 150-180K ISK per match) (This is also dis-crediting RDV collisions which sometimes take even more from me) this setup is pretty close to how my python is setup. Pytonhigh modules- 2 Azeotropic shield extenders 1 ward shield amplifier 1 basic afterburner. low modules- 1 local powergrid expansion unit 1 jovian fusion powerplant. turrets- 2 AT cycled missile launchers (sides) 1 AT accelerated missile launcher. + any suit with a adv rep tool just in case. survives proto AV incredibly well as long as i pull out when i need to as for RDV's i have trained myself to pay VERY close attention to my surroundings to hear the RDV coming and sometimes see its light. this setup could be better but ive began to spec into my infantry to pay for my dropships when they happen to die. and i don't call them in every game only when i feel its needed but i would say 3-5 games. i don't always lose dropships but when i do it takes very concentrated AV and pilot error to do so. Wow haha pretty crazy how we both nearly came to the same fitting, honestly your defense is pretty nice, might be a considerable alternative to mine if i don't really care about my dmg mod.. thanks for this fit, although im guessing you can't put XT's on it? Or can you? |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
250
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 19:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Serimos Haeraven wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The stats on that are horribly off... i have 1,860 shield yet 30% resistance from my 2 shield resist modules. And don't post these charts that don't really account for what the actual module usage is, i would much prefer a fitting load-out and why you chose to fit it with those modules, and your survivability from doing so. And believe me, i have tried a ton of fits, including different proto turret modules as well, and if you're so confident in your fit, i would be glad to hear what it is exactly. I gave you 2 extenders. I'll model it for 1. but its not looking too strong against a 3rd hit. In many real world cases 3 hits will take you down. By the way I model : Weapon damage against shield adjusted for weapon type Innate shield resistance Innate armour resistance Pass through damage model herewhich takes account of shield and armour regen based on seconds passed between each hit. I account fo all skill based skill bonuses Module stacking penalty Weapon % bonus against each layer based on pass through It's a good model. Your build does not stack up well unless you manage to catch every hit with you hardeners. Which you can't. You are too vulnerable unless taking expected damage all the time. Fine for game start uplink dropping... but otherwise. too risky. Look at the model. Thats around a 50% 2nd hit survival rate. And I gave you the best case here. Catching all hits with both hardeners OP Survival Rate Ehrm, i think running with an armor resistance module on a Caldari Python (Shield Tank) is a mistake, no matter what charts you write up on that website, the reason that i have low sheilds with a high resist is strictly because i can have a fuel injector, and that's where my survivability goes up about 30-40% from the originally discounted survivability you think i would have. The entire point of a fuel injector is so a second shot can't be taken, and i can avoid that literally 75-80% every single time. I have tested this theory countless of numbers of times being hit with proto-railgun tanks from across the map when i was literally on the ground picking people up, and with the activiation of that fuel injector right after that hit i was fast enough (as well as having a jovian) to escape the field before he could even land the next shot. That sort of situation whether it was with an FG or a railgun sniper has been proven to work nearly every time i use it. |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
250
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 19:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Serimos Haeraven wrote: Ehrm, i think running with an armor resistance module on a Caldari Python (Shield Tank) is a mistake, no matter what charts you write up on that website
0% is still an account of a armour resistance. What are you on about? ANy model staill has to account for 0% so its always counted..... Ah i see you were only specifying the pass-through effect of damage to a DS, i read it over thinking you were explaining your module fittings on your own dropship, since i kind of asked that that's what i would like to hear about so those other fittings offer ideas into what other pilots find useful. If you could post your exact fitting, it would give me much more of an idea instead of flow charts. |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
250
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 19:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Serimos Haeraven wrote: Ehrm, i think running with an armor resistance module on a Caldari Python (Shield Tank) is a mistake, no matter what charts you write up on that website
0% is still an account of a armour resistance. What are you on about? ANy model staill has to account for 0% so its always counted..... Why have a phyton? You are playing as a logi.. in then out asap. Pythons have to fight. Getting away from hit 2 means stopping all usefulness as an ADS. Yes you live.. but why?
I'm not playing as a logi, because in the gaps that there is no risk of forge-gun fire, i can shoot my missles (XT Acceleterated on the front, the strongest launcher in the game), and i can literally 2 shot people full on health. I am able to get in, destroy what i need to, and get out if a threat presents itself. |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
250
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 19:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:My fitting suits my play style. What I was trying to do was use you fitting to see how you play. I stay and fight, so your fitting would fail for how I play. However it may be great for your play style. There is no "best" fitting. It depends on how you play. Do you hunt tanks, fight swarmers for your teams tanks. act as an AV distraction for your ground vehicles... all these and more effect the fitting.
EDIT - see your last post. You are a harasser not a force multiplier. In which case your build works but still to me is too risky. Catch a shot when those hardeners are off and you are down. The "hardeners" i have are passive, not active, so i have a 30% shield resistance at all times. And what you just said is the reason i made this post, i want to see some fittings of users, and you still haven't listed your exact fitting at all xD |
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Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
250
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 19:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mac Dac wrote:I have an incubus. 1x militia sheild recharger 1x militia shield resistance amp 1x militia armor repair unit 2x voltic armor plating 1x militia 60mm reinforced steel plates 1x advanced missile launcher 2x militia blasters
and i survive just fine. if there isn't a lot of av. You should just save your SP for upgrading those militia's next to make it way more efficient and effective |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
250
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 19:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:I shoot down more dropships than other tanks with my railgun madrugar, I mean, two hits and free WP. Funniest thing are ADS pilots who try to kill me, they do literally no damage (wtf?). the common turrets don't do much, but i can confidently take out tanks with my XT-Accelerated on the front and the XT-fragmenteds on the sides. A 3 man team in my assault means a quick end to any tank caught in the open, or enemy ds |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
252
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 21:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:Prometheus 2x Fragmented or Cycled Missile Launchers (still determining which guns random blueberries find easiest to kill with) 2x N-Type Vehicular Hardeners ( occasionally swap out one hardener for a remote armour repairer if I see an armour tank) 1x 60mm Reinforced Polycrystalline Plates 1x Light IG-L Polarizes Armour Regenerator 1x Shield Extender I 1x Shield Regenerator I
This is my latest load out and I love it in terms of tanking the first few hits of AV. Recently, however, I've joined a string of games where the other team wields Ishukone Assault Forge Guns. Wasn't so proud of my tanking abilities after that. Given, I have sacrificed an afterburner for a bit of extra tank. Yes, perhaps that afterburner will get me away from hit 2. But when the second forge gun round takes me out, and its already charging as the first shot hits me, will I really get away? I'm still testing to see if my shield modules (plus the steel plate, as I can only run the nano fibre plates if I have the afterburner) improve my survivability more than the AB.
What I find extremely frustrating about playing solo as a LogiDS pilot, though, still is communicating with randoms. Spawning in my dropship is all well and good, but getting people out can sometimes be a frustration. When a gunner gets a kill with my turrets, for example, they seem to ignore everything that's happening to my ship simply in the hope of getting another kill. Fife timely, I've removed one or two players from the team, and I hate the thought of that, so I try spend more time finding kills to compensate, and end up dying more.
I definitely survive longer when there's a tank on the field. AV is split between us and occasionally I try to brave the horrid RAR and ST mechanics and try support the tank. Still very hard. If they move its extremely painful to compensate without crashing or losing connection with my module. Hell, simply establishing a connection is annoyingly difficult.
But with the way dropships engines automatically align with the horizontal axis of my dropship, I find its much easier to pick up speed even in my armour dropship simply through a shallow dive, and this saves me from most AV. Generally, its only when three or more people have advanced AV in a game (which is frighteningly often) or one chap with a prototype forge gun that takes me down.
If I don't recall or hide my dropship, generally I lose it every game I bring it out, as there's always seemed to be some guy with high end AV lately. May be poor decisions when choosing routes to fly, may be because I decide to linger in one spot for too long. All I know is I wish we had inbuilt afterburners. That, and a WP system, and I'd be content. To me it's pretty interesting that you fly logi DS only, i mean no doubt though your fit is pretty good, as I'm guessing your launchers are prototype? The reason Assaults (to me) are ideal for usage even in rando-skirms is because they can pack both speed and some defense, whereas with a logi all it's really perfect for is tanking in defense and being a slow, yet useful bail-out at height ceiling, and mine has 2 XT's strapped to the sides so it can deal out damage as well. You should also consider trying out the assault DS sometime and seeing how you like it, it's much faster. Don't fully skill into it first though, see how you like the handling. |
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