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Scottie MaCallan
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
27
   |
Posted - 2013.07.13 12:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been thinking about contact nades lately, I know a lot of people are getting annoyed at them lately, but I do think it's a valuable variant to have in game. so with that in mind, first, I'd like to look at the problems with them right now, and then solutions
For reference, I play a minnie shotgun scout, w/ flux nades and an adv. flaylock. My problem with contact nades as they are now is that they provide a cheap counter against a CQC attack. I think contact grenades as a counter to high DPH, low EHP scouts is a solid idea, but currently, the AUR nades can insta-pop me, and they're supposed to be basic level equipment. Not only that, but once you get in close, the time it takes for the enemy to react and throw a contact nade is ridiculously low, and it's not hard at all to throw one close enough for an instapop in close quarters. So basically they're a low SP, very little talent required, almost instant hard counter to basically an entire playstyle. I haven't really come across many people using the isk, higher leveled contact grenades, but I would imagine they can insta-pop even more suits at the same low skill (play-wise) requirement.
BUT like I said, I do think there is a place in Dust for them. the trick is we need to balance them so that
1) they require some talent to use effectively
2) they can be more easily detected before passing the point of no return, and skilled players do have a chance of surviving
So here's a couple ideas, and what I think of each change. If you have any more, explain them, and I'll add them to this post
1) Lower the damage. This is kind of an easy go-to, it's blunt and probably not ideal, but considering the trade off of contact vs. timer, some small damage adjustment could be part of a solution.
2) Slow down the travel/arming time so that it takes longer to reach a target, and/or has to travel a certain distance or time before detonation (this would give scouts or other CQC players a chance to react, and combined with better grenade warnings in the HUD, could give skilled players time to react, but in very close confines would probably not be quite enough to dodge.
3) Add a 'cook' time to the throwing motion. Normal grenades are generally 'cooked' to ensure they detonate as close to reaching the target as possible, this requires skill and good spatial awareness, something which contact grenades currently are light on. Forcing a certain amount of 'cooking' time every time the grenades are thrown would create a similar buffer, so just like when I see someone cooking a normal grenade, I have time to react. This would also force the contact grenade users to rely more on anticipation and combat awareness to effectively use contact grenades.
so yea, personally I think either 2 or 3, or a combination of 2 & 3 is a solid solution to the complaints about contact grenades. It would force contact grenade users to anticipate and use their combat/spatial awareness in a way more similar to traditional grenades, and also leave CQC and light frame playstyles with the time to process the situation (unless the contact grenade user very successfully anticipated an attack) and adjust our movements or tactics to account for contact grenades.
sound off below if yr about it! |
Cat Merc
DUST University
Ivy League
3050
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 12:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Give them no blast radius.
Must hit the target directly. |
Knight SoIaire
Rent-A-Murder Taxi
1184
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 12:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Give them no blast radius.
Must hit the target directly.
Definitely this, this would make them require skill.
People dont use the Thukkers because of their lower blast radius and higher PG/CPU/ISK cost.
I'd prefer if they were removed, but at least this way, Scouts can dodge them, and CCP obviously isn't planning on removing them anytime soon. |
Godin Thekiller
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
268
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 12:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Knight SoIaire wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Give them no blast radius.
Must hit the target directly. Definitely this, this would make them require skill. People dont use the Thukkers because of their lower blast radius and higher PG/CPU/ISK cost. I'd prefer if they were removed, but at least this way, Scouts can dodge them, and CCP obviously isn't planning on removing them anytime soon.
AGAIN |
Niuvo
The Phoenix Federation
194
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 12:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
They should have feedback damage if the user is too close when he threw it. Forge guns and the like too. Seriously, the blast should kill you too if your HP can't take the blast or be seriously injured. |
Scottie MaCallan
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 13:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Unless I'm mistaken all grenades or AOE blasts can harm the person that throws them. So that's already in the game, it's just not enough to solve the problem. |
Arc-08
Horizons' Edge
Orion Empire
16
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 20:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scottie MaCallan wrote:Unless I'm mistaken all grenades or AOE blasts can harm the person that throws them. So that's already in the game, it's just not enough to solve the problem.
it is, that's the reason i don't use contact nades, because i always blow myself up. and they are good at semi close nades but don't try to throw one when you see an enemy around the corner because not only can the enemy not react, but neither can you. contact grenades to take some skill to use. |
Ankoku Daishogun
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 21:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Just remove them completely. I don't know whether CCP is trolling us with these weapons or not, but they shouldn't be in a game that claims to be AAA shooter. The trend now is caldari logi (a way better suit than any assault suit at assaulting) with a mass driver, contact grenades, and a flaylock...sometimes it is dual flaylocks. It is getting ridiculous. I spent 14 million SP into my heavy, and I regret it because a prototype sidearm can kill better than my prototype HMG (seriously considering dual flaylock heavy that's the direction the current state of the game is pushing me). I have been playing the game for a year, and I have never seen such spamming in all previous build. I am seriously considering leaving the game, and CCP thanks for embarrassing me in front of all my friends that I tried so hard to get into DUST, only for them to find out it is all about spamming.
CCP should take all the devs that had the silliest idea of introducing the silliest weapons in the game (contact grenades, flaylocks) and just give them paid leave and work on the game until it is better. Also consider changing the CPMs, the community feel so disenfranchised.
At the current state of the game, DUST 514 it is just as childish as Hello Kitty Online. |
Scottie MaCallan
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 00:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Arc-08 wrote:
it is, that's the reason i don't use contact nades, because i always blow myself up. and they are good at semi close nades but don't try to throw one when you see an enemy around the corner because not only can the enemy not react, but neither can you. contact grenades to take some skill to use.
yea, they do, but I think right now it's clearly completely unbalanced and in the end the skill required is not really that much in most scenarios.
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